Good Alignment shop in Tucson?
- Thread starter GeoRoss
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MaddBaggins
Remember the KnightRider!
Check your lugnuts and tire pressure first 
You made me think, I've never had a vehicle aligned. I've never had anything pull to the side enough or wear tires in strange ways to ever cause me to get one done. Sorry, no help
You made me think, I've never had a vehicle aligned. I've never had anything pull to the side enough or wear tires in strange ways to ever cause me to get one done. Sorry, no help
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MaddBaggins said:Check your lugnuts and tire pressure first
You made me think, I've never had a vehicle aligned. I've never had anything pull to the side enough or wear tires in strange ways to ever cause me to get one done. Sorry, no help
Hey Alvin,
It is a slight pull to the PS, the side you worked on, hmmmm? I need to check that it isn't the brakes first, then try for an alignment. It may have been pulling prior to the new brake pads, but remember how tight the PS inner pad was? That may have raised my awareness enough to now notice a preexisting pull. Who knows.
I'm glad your o-rings seem to be helping with the start up rattle. Looks like you need something between one and two o-rings?
Ross
macneill
Rollin’ on 33s
Bill's Toy Shop.
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The easiest way I know to check for rolling drag is to drive without the center caps, then stop and touch the hubs, if you have enough drag to feel it in the steering wheel one hub will be much hotter. The hotter hub either has a wheel bearing issue or brake dragging, check all four it could be the rear.
The only thing that an alignment shop can adjust is the toe, easily done at home. They can give you the castor reading, that may confirm why it's pulling, but still relatively useless info. One test you can do is find a relatively level, traffic free piece of two lane highway, drive at the best speed for max pull, then change lanes into the oncoming traffic lane, if the pull switches sides it's falling off the crown in the road. This can be somewhat minimized with toe adjustment and/or total castor change.
Most of the "techs" at an alignment shop know how to apply the settings they are given to your truck, but have minimal understanding of what changes "out of the box" to do that will improve your truck and usually just recommend a bunch of expensive unneeded parts! With the simple suspension on the 80 most of the time you will get better results by trying different settings yourself.
The only thing that an alignment shop can adjust is the toe, easily done at home. They can give you the castor reading, that may confirm why it's pulling, but still relatively useless info. One test you can do is find a relatively level, traffic free piece of two lane highway, drive at the best speed for max pull, then change lanes into the oncoming traffic lane, if the pull switches sides it's falling off the crown in the road. This can be somewhat minimized with toe adjustment and/or total castor change.
Most of the "techs" at an alignment shop know how to apply the settings they are given to your truck, but have minimal understanding of what changes "out of the box" to do that will improve your truck and usually just recommend a bunch of expensive unneeded parts! With the simple suspension on the 80 most of the time you will get better results by trying different settings yourself.
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- #6
Thanks Kevin,
I'll give both suggestions a try. It could be road crown to some extent as it will pull to the DS when I do as you suggested, but the PS pull just seems to be more than what should be expected.
Ross
I'll give both suggestions a try. It could be road crown to some extent as it will pull to the DS when I do as you suggested, but the PS pull just seems to be more than what should be expected.
Ross
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By falling off the crown on each side somewhat evenly it tells us that it's not caused by drag, eliminating brakes and wheel bearings(letting Mr Baggins off the hook 
), the caster and camber are even side to side eliminating trunion bearings, bent spindles, housing, etc.
The first thing to try is add some toe-in. Make sure the tie rod ends are good by jacking up each front tire, grab them at 3 & 9 o'clock and try to turn the front end back and forth, there should be no play.
To check the toe park on relatively flat ground with the steering centered straight forward, make a mark on the rear of each front tire about 6" off the ground, I paint one tread block near the center with an old spray can then scratch a vertical line in the paint, it's not critical to be accurate, just need a good mark so you measure the same everytime. It helps to have a helper and measure between the marks 6" off the ground, without turning the steering roll the truck forward until the marks are 6" off the ground at the front of the tire and measure there. Compare the measurements and that will be the toe, the factory recommends 0 to .16" toe-in, the front measurement smaller. I would start at 3/16" toe-in and see how that works. To adjust loosen the clamps on each end of the tie rod behind the axle and turn the rod, one way will lengthen the rod toeing the tires in, the other way will shorten it toeing them out. Set it, tighten the clamps and test drive.
Toe-in usually makes the truck more stable and is good up to about 1/4" much more than that and you start getting reduced gas mileage and increased tire wear.
), the caster and camber are even side to side eliminating trunion bearings, bent spindles, housing, etc. The first thing to try is add some toe-in. Make sure the tie rod ends are good by jacking up each front tire, grab them at 3 & 9 o'clock and try to turn the front end back and forth, there should be no play.
To check the toe park on relatively flat ground with the steering centered straight forward, make a mark on the rear of each front tire about 6" off the ground, I paint one tread block near the center with an old spray can then scratch a vertical line in the paint, it's not critical to be accurate, just need a good mark so you measure the same everytime. It helps to have a helper and measure between the marks 6" off the ground, without turning the steering roll the truck forward until the marks are 6" off the ground at the front of the tire and measure there. Compare the measurements and that will be the toe, the factory recommends 0 to .16" toe-in, the front measurement smaller. I would start at 3/16" toe-in and see how that works. To adjust loosen the clamps on each end of the tie rod behind the axle and turn the rod, one way will lengthen the rod toeing the tires in, the other way will shorten it toeing them out. Set it, tighten the clamps and test drive.
Toe-in usually makes the truck more stable and is good up to about 1/4" much more than that and you start getting reduced gas mileage and increased tire wear.
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Wow, thanks Kevin.
I am not yet ready to let Mr. Baggins off the hook for anything yet
. As to my pull, it is much more pronounced to the PS, but the hubs are of equal temp + or - after a 5 mile 40mph drive.
I will check the tie rod ends and check for wobble. We did disconnect the PS during the axile service.
As for checking the toe-in, I don't have the FSM handy, but from what you describe it seems pretty easy, though I am a bit confused on the process.
1. Park on level ground with the steering wheel centered.
2. Make a mark on the in the center of the back side of the front tires, 6" above the ground.
3. Roll the truck forward until the mark is on the front side of the tire and 6" above the ground.
This part is straight forward. Now for the embarassing question, what am I measuring?
When I get home I'll look at the FSM.
Ross
I am not yet ready to let Mr. Baggins off the hook for anything yet
. As to my pull, it is much more pronounced to the PS, but the hubs are of equal temp + or - after a 5 mile 40mph drive. I will check the tie rod ends and check for wobble. We did disconnect the PS during the axile service.
As for checking the toe-in, I don't have the FSM handy, but from what you describe it seems pretty easy, though I am a bit confused on the process.
1. Park on level ground with the steering wheel centered.
2. Make a mark on the in the center of the back side of the front tires, 6" above the ground.
3. Roll the truck forward until the mark is on the front side of the tire and 6" above the ground.
This part is straight forward. Now for the embarassing question, what am I measuring?
When I get home I'll look at the FSM.
Ross
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Your measuring the distance between the marks on the tires, by measuring the rear of the tires then the front side, we can tell if the tires are parallel, if the front measurement is longer then the tires are toed out, shorter is toe-in, this is the way you want it, the front of the tires slightly closer together than the rear. I have done the quick and dirty way many times of just measuring on the sidewalls but by making a mark and rolling forward it much more accurate.
MaddBaggins
Remember the KnightRider!
After all the grease we spilled together, this is what I get!
We did birfs together, I thought that meant something
We did birfs together, I thought that meant something
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MaddBaggins said:After all the grease we spilled together, this is what I get!
We did birfs together, I thought that meant something
Yep, it means you got sticky and slippery
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- #13
Okay Kevin, I apologize for being dense, but this is as I see it.
1. Draw a straight line on the surface you are parked on that is parallel to the direction of travel, (ie the frame).
2. Draw a verticle marker line on the rear of the front tires.
3. Push the vehicle forward to a point where you can measure the deviation of your tire marker line and the reference line on the floor.
Outboard deviation indicates toe-out, and inboard deviation indicates toe-in, which should be less than 1/4".
I am thinking that the increase in tire size will effect this measurement, unless one uses a fixed diameter (ie the hub or wheel) to measure forward motion. I am too tired right now to calculate the error, but it should increase the deviation by some percent.
Then again, I may be totally clueless. Sorry to be pestering you about this, but thanks for your help.
Ross
1. Draw a straight line on the surface you are parked on that is parallel to the direction of travel, (ie the frame).
2. Draw a verticle marker line on the rear of the front tires.
3. Push the vehicle forward to a point where you can measure the deviation of your tire marker line and the reference line on the floor.
Outboard deviation indicates toe-out, and inboard deviation indicates toe-in, which should be less than 1/4".
I am thinking that the increase in tire size will effect this measurement, unless one uses a fixed diameter (ie the hub or wheel) to measure forward motion. I am too tired right now to calculate the error, but it should increase the deviation by some percent.
Then again, I may be totally clueless. Sorry to be pestering you about this, but thanks for your help.
Ross
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No need to mark the ground.
Correct, then measure between the marks.
Push the vehicle forward to a point where your marks are about the same distance off the ground on the front side of the tires as they were on the rear, about 2/3 tire rotation and then measure between the marks.
Yes larger tires will make a tiny deviation, if your into getting it that close, here is a page for you.
http://home.eznet.net/~raymack/toe_align_epist.htm
There are many ways to do it and a bunch of tools made from simple spring loaded rods to laser digital gizmos. It's as simple as measuring the distance between the rear edges and the front edges of the tires, but by making one mark on each tire measuring, then rolling the tires about 2/3 rotation and measuring the same marks again you eliminate any runout in the tires and rims. I couldn't find any good sites with good photos.
http://www.geocities.com/baja/dunes/6948/toe-in-adjust.html
This guy likes the way of chalking a line all the way around the tire.
http://www.team.net/www/morgan/tech/art024.html
The manufacturer lists a recommended spec range, some testing will find what is best for your driving style and mods. Larger tires and/or lift like more toe-in, close to stock likes less. I have been known to loosen the clamps, take a highway cruise, drive on both sides of the crown, take some big sweeping curves, then climb under and give a couple of turns on the tie rod, repeat until I find my sweet spot, then take it home and measure and note the toe setting that works for me, for future reference.
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Okay, I now understand. You measure the distance between the two front tires before and then after the ~2/3's rotation. For some reason, I wasn't getting that. 
Thanks again for the help. I'll be checking all the torques on the trunion bearings and hub today. At the same time I'll check the tie rod ends for play and then delve into the toe-in.
I still think Alvin has some 'splaining to do though
Ross
Thanks again for the help. I'll be checking all the torques on the trunion bearings and hub today. At the same time I'll check the tie rod ends for play and then delve into the toe-in.
I still think Alvin has some 'splaining to do though
Ross
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Hey Nate...
Hey Nate...
Thanks for the excellent description on this process Kevin! I need to do this soon myself.
