Gas PRICES

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Stay away from the hybrids. As someone said ealier, you wont save enough money in gas to make up for the primium you pay for the car.

Also, I was talking to a guy recently who owned a prius, and after three years the batteries started to go, 3 years is normal life for those batts, especially here in AZ. It was gonna cost him around $5k or more to replace the batts, so he just traded it in for a new civic.

Basically if you want to save money on gas, just get a new Civic or Corolla (not hybrid), both decent sized cars with great gas milage, I've owned both.

Also, if you don't like paying $3+ for gas, quit buying bottled water for $1 per bottle, or Venti coffee at Starbucks for $3.50...grin. You've gotta put this gas price thing in perspective with everything else and be thankful that we are just now paying $3 per gallon.

David
 
BMAN said:
Ross, The discussion hes been had and we will NOT be buying a minivan.
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Good for you, don't give in. Have you checked out the new 4Runner? I think my wife had two car seats and a 4' kid in the middle row, and all fit comfortably, and I think I could have squeezed a booster between them if I needed. I've also had 3 adults in the middle row, and everyone said they were comfortable.

You can get the new 4Runner with a 3rd row now too, the jump seats are great size for kids, even in a car seat. The seats are actually nice and wide, I've put the booster back there and with the added height my 3 year old loves the ride and sits comfortably and safely.

As far as milage goes, the onboard puter shows us consistently at 20 mpg, and that's not much freeway driving.

David
 
cybler said:
Stay away from the hybrids. As someone said ealier, you wont save enough money in gas to make up for the primium you pay for the car.



David
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LOL that was me. i did some numbers and figured at todays gas prices the civic hybrid would need to commute about 100 miles per day to come out ahead.

i wouldnt buy a used hybrid, but that just me.
 
I'm with you, Phil. We are still amoung the cheapest in the world. I have currencies from middle-eastern nations in my safe. When (and if) they stabilize, I may make money. Fuel prices suck right now. It is not that important. I spend my time and worry on things that I can control. Real estate, local markets, my own retirement. Those things matter more to me.
I run the Cruiser to Prescott nearly every week. Fuel prices don't have any effect on that. They only effect what I tow or haul. The more fuel costs, the more weight I tow on each trip. On the last run, I towed 2,000 lbs. This week it will be more. Next week it will increase again. It costs $50-60 every time. I just get it done.
 
RHINO said:
i would happily commute to and from work everyday on public transit, but nothing runs as early as i start. i mean, its less than $4 a week and the maintinence to the commuter car would be like nill.

on the flipside, my only gripe about high gas prices are the lack of supporting infrastructure like europe has. i would happily pay $5 a gallon if we had the roads, schools and healthcare to back it up. oh well, i still pay the price, heck its a free country so ya gotta pay the price companies put on any product iffin ya want it. it would be interesting though if there were two kinds of gas available, the foo-foo high quality gas we have now with a price tag, or 3rd world quality gas at a buck a gallon sold through walmart or something. be interesting to see what would happen.
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Going back a bit on the thread:

There is a saying about public transit. "If I had all day I would have ridden the bus" Transit just takes too long. I have things to do and cannot afford to waste that much time. It is seldom time-efficient. My time is more valuable than transit time.
 
you must be oneof those folks who cuts off one car to try and get ahead cause its costing you thousands to wait in traffic like evryone else.:flipoff2: :flipoff2:

i tried the bus one day when i didnt have to work early, took a whopping whole 7 mins longer in the am and about 19 mins in the pm. man thousands down the drain right there.

just ribbin ya dude. i only go about 12 miles each way so its a short drive, or bus ride and no transfers so its easy. if i had to go across town and transfer a bus or two i would be into carpooling instead of bussing.
 
I have to get back in here! I saw an idea early in this thread that I like.
A boycott of fuel buying for a day causes just a blip in the market that is corrected the next day. We must have fuel and if we don't buy on Tuesday, we will be back on Wednesday. But if groups of consumers avoid the large companies in favor of the smaller ones over a longer time it can cost them millions or more.
I am always in favor of supporting the smaller guys in the market, but in the oil biz I don't know who is in bed with who.
Exxon-Mobil is the big one, but can anyone tell us which local brands buy from them? Is Citgo or Diamond Shamrock a smaller supplier or just another name for Exxon? Anyone with this info please post up. We know that Arco is just camel piss, but what about the other ones? Can we get a list of suppliers that are really the small companies, and not just subsideraries?
Cruiser owners are just a small part of the national market, but we all have family, friends and neighbors. Maybe we can start to patronize the smaller suppliers and tell others. It might have a small effect on prices.
 
P.S. Forgive my previous rant. That was some frustration talking.
What we need is a region-by-region list of the retail supplier brands that are affiliated with smaller oil companies. By patronizing the smaller companies we can at least not reward the big ones for recent behavior. With a little effort and luck, we may be able to make a small percentage shift towards smaller suppliers. There may be enough of us to do it.

Can anybody in the biz post a list of the oil companies from big to small, and the local retailers, by region, that are affiliated with the smaller ones?
 
someone could prolly post that info, but to what end?? ive heard folks mention boycots and crap like that, but if you understand economics you would realize a boycot would only increase prices.
these high prices are actually good for several reasons and only bad for our pockets.
 
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I don't like boycotts in general. They don't do any real good. But I like rewarding those who are reasonable. We can't really affect gas prices, but we can be aware consumers. There is no reason for continuing to buy from those who are driving the price increases.
Most gas stations will buy a supply of fuel for a given price and if the price goes up they raise the price, even though they are still selling supply bought at a lower price.
I have one near here that doesn't do that. When the price spikes by .10 they hold the price at the previous level until they have to restock. They are currently at 2.99 while the area standard is at 3.09. They have sharper price changes, but the price only changes when the supply truck shows up and charges them a higher price for restock. I reward that by visiting them as long as the current stock holds out at a lower price. In other words, I look at price before buying fuel. I don't just stop off anywhere to fill up.
I have no problem with carrying that attitude further. Why should we not try to patronize the smaller suppliers who are following rather than driving the price hikes? And if we can shift some demand from the biggest suppliers to the smaller ones, it might put some pressure on them.
If 200,000 consumers shift from Exxon to Citgo at ten gallons a week that equals a 6 million dollar hit per week to Exxon until they win back those customers. In America 200,000 consumers is a small number. They might notice $6,000,000 a week! If they don't, they should get a real job.
Fuel is so necessary to us that we begin to feel that we have no way to influence costs, but as auto clubs and other groups we can have a small level of effect. When large groups of consumers move from one supplier to another we have the ability to hit back on a small scale. When that small scale becomes a group shift, it can add up to a lot of money!
It only requires that we act as smart people always have, by buying for price and quality instead of convenience. Look around when you have fuel left, notice who has a better deal. Reward those who sell for less when you need to fill up. Know who the smaller companies are and which ones try hardest to get your business. Be infomed!
 
ouch DD !!!

i agree totally brian, the last couple weeks i have been paying $2.89. i understand rewarding a better guy in that sense, but theres a breaking point. if more folks start patronizing the "good guy" he will have to raise prices at some point. i also think most folks on the road dont have the oportunity to cruise around to find the cheaper station, or its just not on the daily commute route. alot of folks commuting to there homes in the west valley prolly wouldnt jump off I-10 and drive up 27th ave a few miles for 2.89 a gallon. many many "experts" on the subject have said it several times, if americans want to pay less for fuel they simply HAVE to use less. if everyone is using less it should decrease the price at the pump, if your the only one using less then your buying less, hence not spending as much.
its really all just a vicous circle, this country has gotten populated enough now that if it werent for our "wealth" the system would have imploded and sent us back a few decades by now.
 
nice link relix, pretty much backs up my train of thought on this whole matter. i remember when the other gas prices thread was going last summer, i got some flack for stating the gas station owner only makes 15-20 cents per gallon and even more flack with my "suck up and pay the price" attitude.
its interesting the amount of anger you see in gas prices, but not much in housing, autos or lattes, which have all gone up greatly over the years. just shows you how much we love our big fast automobiles.
 
That's a handy and useful industry breakdown. It details the reasons why I suggest that we cannot greatly affect prices. We may get some attention by switching to smaller suppliers, but will not make any real dent in consumer prices.
This is an example of what happens when we export our free market attitude. In overall effect it is a good thing, but it has an effect on the supply of essentials.
Free markets enrich a lot of little people. They introduce new ideas to the market. They also increase demand for basics.
Many nations have embraced free markets partly as a result of recent American & European activity. Most noteable among them are China & India, two of the most populous nations on Earth. The number of consumers in the world with money to spend has nearly tripled in the past decade. If anyone has noticed, it is not only fuel that has increased in cost as a result. The prices of steel, aluminum, concrete, lumber, and even batteries have increased substantially. We are seeing an unprecedented period of expansion in world consumer markets. The resulting economic activity will inevitably increase demand for all products.
We could respond by bombing those expanding nations back to their previous third world status, but that is not our way, nor would it work in the long run. The only other viable approach is to increase production of existing technologies while searching for more efficient methods to meet the demand.
Hybrid vehicles, more efficient toasters, creative research funding and many other things are on the table. Hitting big companies where it hurts is a short-term solution. The long term solution is to educate your kids and encourage them to find better ways of doing things. There will be many inventors in the next generation.
 
RHINO said:
ehh i mighta went to walmart back in march to look for somethin, yeah pretty sure i did. i was following a lead on a little $10 mini air compressor.
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I went there to pick up a PC game & I got stuck behind some lady in the electronics department that needed a translator to find a movie or something then she proceeded to check out in the eletronics department in front of me with 2 carts of misc. stuff from all over the store.....

Cliff notes...
I went in found a game i wanted and should have been out of there in under 5 minutes but got stuck behind this lady and ended up being there for over 45 minutes waiting in line...:mad:
 
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