Gas Mileage Update: Atlas I-5 in an FJ80
- Thread starter TwoTonic
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Your forgetting one thing. GM engines are unreliable. The 3F-E will out last that engine easily. Kiss your 3F-E it loves you. Doubt the Atlas I-5 does.
Do you have information on the atlas I5/I6 motors to confirm that?
As had been said, GM has had some poor engines in their past, most if not all of the newer ones are very well built.
Of course Toyota has built nothing but successful engines (HG's on numerous models, 22re's, 3.0's, 1fze...)
Jack
Your forgetting one thing. GM engines are unreliable. The 3F-E will out last that engine easily. Kiss your 3F-E it loves you. Doubt the Atlas I-5 does.
Lest we forget that the Toyota I6 motors are near carbon copies of Chevy I6 motors of old...
If you ask me, a block is a block. There is only so much engineering that can go into a crankshaft, pistons/rings, bore/stroke, and the valves. What makes a reliable motor is the fuel system and accessories. Most modern (and old) blocks will go 200,000 mi without major rebuild if not abused or neglected. That being said, Toyota accessories (alt, fuel injection, etc) are top-shelf parts, which means that they will stand up longer to a more abusive environment.
-Phil
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- Thread starter
- #26
Photos of I-5 Atlas in '91 FJ80
Yes, there are a few up on Picasa. Here is the link:
Picasa Web Albums - HT - Hummer H3 Dri...
Yes, there are a few up on Picasa. Here is the link:
Picasa Web Albums - HT - Hummer H3 Dri...
Wrench
One Bashed Up 80
Yeah they maybe a carbon copy but Toyota made it better. Made them last. GM would need a top end rebuild at 100k.
A block is not a block. That's like saying a PC is a PC. It all comes down to build quality and workmanship. That's why Toyota engines easily out last GM engines. I've worked on GM engines and the build quality and workmanship is not good. GM designed them this way so you would by a new car every two years. Toyota's engines are far superior than GM's in build quality and workmanship. Everyone knows Toyotas run forever. So go out side and kiss your Toyota engine. Would you kiss a GM engine? Doubt it.
- Thread starter
- #28
The 3F-E will out last that engine easily. Kiss your 3F-E it loves you.
The last time I kissed my 3F-E I had a petrol taste on my breath all day. Must have been that 10 MPG.
Actually, I'm not hating on the 3F-E at all. It's a very robust design and they regularly run 300-500K miles if you keep clean oil in them. It's also a design that's pretty dated by now, being at-heart a refinement of the older "F" design from mid-50's Japan, which in turn had its inspiration in the classic GM inline-6. Although it's a very over-designed block-piston-head-cam system, the 3F-E's very heavy, the head/port design doesn't take advantage of modern design techniques and the compression ratio is almost laughably low by 21st century standards-- resulting in low combustion efficiency and lower power/weight. 153HP and 220 TQ isn't competitive today in an econobox, much less a 5000# truck.
For me, I just wanted to try a more-modern engine design in a great old FJ80 that I love. I'll probably recycle the 3F-E into something older, adding more modern engine controls and, maybe, F/I.
- Thread starter
- #29
Certainly Toyota has maintained a great reputation and there's no doubting the durability of such over-built engines as the 2JZ and the 3FE. I know a guy (classic line, huh, but it's true) who's running 30# of boost and almost 700HP on a 2JZ with stock internals and bottom end. It's an amazingly robust design.
HOWEVER, Toyota's had some spectacular screw-ups along the way, too. All those early T-100s that grenaded, the epidemic head gasket failures on 22Rs, massive recall on 4Runners over several model years. Most recently, they've been breaking camshafts on the new 5.7L Tundras-- Toyota generally takes care of their customers, but to say their engine designs are always better than the US guys is probably overstating it a bit.
I do have a soft spot for the LSx engines-- they have run millions and millions of units since the LS-1 came out in 1997, they take advantage of huge economies of scale to use the same engine design across so many truck (and car) lines-- and that same engine runs in marine applications worldwide, where the motor has to churn out 80% of rated power continually, day-after-day. Are they as overbuilt as the 3F-E? Probably not. Are they likely to run far longer than I'll ever own a car or truck? Probably.
JMHO
The infamous 3.0 headgaskets... Once replaced, though, that engine is bulletproof.
You should build a 2FE out of it. 3FE head on the later 2F block, basically a direct bolt-on. Supposedly puts out REALLY good torque.
- Thread starter
- #33
A little OT, but...
Check the array of L92 (Escalade 6.2L VVT) derivatives these guys have done. 500-700HP = naughty indeed
Mast Motorsports Hot Rod & Muscle Car Engines
No affiliation, BTW. I've never even talked to the MAST guys, but they get great press.
I would do naughty things to the Denali/Escalade's 6.2L...
Check the array of L92 (Escalade 6.2L VVT) derivatives these guys have done. 500-700HP = naughty indeed
Mast Motorsports Hot Rod & Muscle Car Engines
No affiliation, BTW. I've never even talked to the MAST guys, but they get great press.
Check the array of L92 (Escalade 6.2L VVT) derivatives these guys have done. 500-700HP = naughty indeed
Mast Motorsports Hot Rod & Muscle Car Engines
No affiliation, BTW. I've never even talked to the MAST guys, but they get great press.
Carry on...
- Thread starter
- #35
I've thought about cross-generation combos-- I've got an FJ60 down at the shop with a blown 2F motor (I know it NEVER happens, but I bought this one as a builder with the engine shot-- must have been a fluke?!?
). It's a manual and would make a great off-road truck-- so we've thought about the 3F-E head and accessories on the 2F block. We need to get it opened up and find out what the story is. Will post on the FJ60 forum once we get going on it.
TwoTonic,
Would you please stop these threads showing off your new conversion?
Enough already!
You're making me feel bad for rebuilding my 1FZ-FE when I could have done a conversion like yours!
Would you please stop these threads showing off your new conversion?
Enough already! You're making me feel bad for rebuilding my 1FZ-FE when I could have done a conversion like yours!
- Thread starter
- #37
TwoTonic,
Would you please stop these threads showing off your new conversion?
You're making me feel bad for rebuilding my 1FZ-FE when I could have done a conversion like yours!
OK!
I wonder how much complexity would be added, by doing a conversion to a 5.3L that is flex fuel? Need to swap fuel delivery system? Extra ECU work/tuning required? I dunno...
Curiosity was sparked when I drove by the gas station up the road, and E85 was at like $1.97 a gallon.
Curiosity was sparked when I drove by the gas station up the road, and E85 was at like $1.97 a gallon.
- Thread starter
- #39
We haven't done a flex fuel conversion yet, but would gather that a " mostly complete" donor vehicle pull-out would be helpful-- meaning full PCM, sensors, intake and the like. If I recall correctly, the PCM has sensors to infer the percentage concentration of ethanol (up to the 85% of E85) and adjust mixture and timing accordingly, based on what you are running. At least pre-ignition is unlikely to be an issue with higher ethanol concentrations.
It would be a cool set-up, assuming you have easy access to E85. We don't have it much out here on the west side of the Rockies, but I took an extended trip through the midwest recently and was amazed by the number of stations offering it. Be sure to check the relative mileage- I'm told it will be quite a bit lower. Of course, I paid $2.819 this morning for 85 octane this AM, so I'd give up a lot of mileage to get $1.97.
MoJ
Moderator
I remember reading a Car and Driver review of the Colorado/Canyon when it first came out. They were doing an offroad comparo with a few other mid-sized. The I5 overheated during moderate offroad use. I've never heard mention of it since. Any idea if this was a common issue with the early I5?
