Fzj80 Vs Defender

[audaciousduo]

Well, I’ve owned a 1994 FZJ80 for about two months after being a decade long loyal Land Rover owner. Out of the nine Land Rovers I owned the most comparable would be the 1986 Defender 110. I thought some of you would be interested in my observations having owned both. Here is the FZJ80 Vs DEFENDER list.

FZJ80 ADVANTAGES
#1) LOCKERS!: I can not say enough about how much of a difference they make in the bush and save you the $5,000 to $6,000 front and rear ARB lockers would cost.
#2) OFF ROAD ABILITY: partly due to #1, but I’m some what embarrassed as to how poorly my old 110 did compared to the new FZJ80. My comparison is not overly scientific but there are two hills that sent my old 110 packing and licking its wounds that the FZJ80 didn’t spin a wheel on. The FZJ80 devastates the defender off road, no two ways about it. A locked up FZJ80 feels like cheating compared to my old 110.
#3) COMFORT: really no comparison here, its like comparing a horse and buggy to a lincoln. If the Land Rover is the third world taxi than the FZJ80 is the limo.
#4) EVERY DAY DRIVABILITY: Unless your spouse is a chiropractor buy the Toyota.
#5) LUCAS, aka the prince of darkness. The electrics on the FZJ80 are far superior. Ever wonder why a $50,000 range rover is next to free after the warranty expires.
#6) TRANSMISSION: Land Rover has yet to make a decent transmission. The only one they had that was bomb proof was in the early Range Rover and it was a Chrysler 727 Torque flight. The series, LT77 and R380 are all weak.
#7) DEPENDABILITY: Toyota ......speaks for itself.
#8) BRAKES: The toyota has them. Enough said.

DEFENDER ADVANTAGES
#1) TRANSFER CASE: The LT230 is a full time transfer case like the Toyota unit. The big advantage is it is fully gear driven and has no viscous coupling. It is one of the few components on a Land Rover that is bomb proof. The other being the rear axle on a defender which is a Dana 60 made under license in the UK. I think the Toyota differentials are every bit as tough.
#2) EMERGENCY BRAKE: The Defender unit is a huge fifth brake drum on the transfer case that brakes the whole power train and can hold the truck on any hill.

#3) EASE OF REPAIR: Much simpler vehicle to work on but it is very spartan and you do spend a fare amount of time repairing it.
#4) FUEL ECNOMY: My truck was a diesel so this is not a fair comparison as Land Rover V8’s are low in power and designed by British Petroleum .....the are brutal on gas as well.

CONCLUSION: Although I still like the rugged look of the Defender I love the new FZJ80. Its a great every day driver and a monster off road. When you look at the cost of a Defender on Ebay or LRX.com and consider what you get for the three times the cost of a good FZJ80 it makes no sense. The land cruiser rocks and I would put it up against any Defender. The first time I crawled up the hill that sent my Defender bucking violently backwards down the hill I had mixed emotions. I was amazed at the ability of the truck and pissed off I wasted a decade owning Land Rovers. How could the marquis I stood by so loyally get embarrassed so badly. Well, I’m a loyal Toyota convert now and having way more fun off road.

 

[FirstToy]

hehe, great review! Takes a bit of the cache off the Defender

I'm interested in the LRD parking brake- do you have a picture of it? That is def. one of the weak designs on the 80, my friends have discussed it and brainstormed.... love to get more of your thoughts on it.

 

[audaciousduo]

Lt230 Pic

Not great but the only one I could get with Google. I know that there is a disc conversion kit for the defender. I wonder if anyone makes a kit for the Land Cruiser? Its a goood design idea.

Dave

 

[Grolar]

Thanks for the review. I always wondered what kind of car I would choose btw a 110 and a 80 for an overland trip and you definitely have my interest. Wondering anyway how the Def and the Toy compare as far as interior space is concerned (not at the drivers seat, of course). And isn't the aluminum body a big advantage when you're off-roading (lower weight)? Please elaborate a little bit. I would love to see this thread grow.

 

[MARLIN375]

after being a decade long loyal Land Rover owner. Out of the nine Land Rovers I owned

Yup, you should have had it figured out after the second Land Rover.............but look on the bright side, the 80 you have now is only prolly half way through its life, if we could figure out how long they actually last, no one knows.

That is about the only thing that is unreliable about the 80 series.............it's life-span.

You have proved your self that the Land Rover is good for about 1-2 years or the end of the warranty (wich ever comes first)

 

[audaciousduo]

Defender Vs Fzj80

The aluminum body is lighter for sure but I don't think its that much of an advantage off road. The Cargo space of the 110 is larger but for an overland trip I would stick with the creature comforts of the toyota. Rust is a mixed blessing. The Aluminum lasts for a long time but the aluminum and steel combination causes electric corrosion.

 

[CJF]

DEFENDER ADVANTAGES
#1) TRANSFER CASE: The LT230 is a full time transfer case like the Toyota unit. The big advantage is it is fully gear driven and has no viscous coupling. It is one of the few components on a Land Rover that is bomb proof.

Not so big:

You can easily pull the viscous coupler out of your Cruiser's transfer case and run without it if you like. What you'll be left with is a transfer case that is fully gear driven and bomb proof.

Not kidding,

Curtis

 

[audaciousduo]

Cool, I've looked at the part time kits but don't know if the fuel savings would make it worth while.

 

[CJF]

Cool, I've looked at the part time kits but don't know if the fuel savings would make it worth while.

Nah,

There's no reason to go that route unless you REALLY want the 2wd/rwd feel (some do).

The 91-97 AWD transfer case is a true geared differential. The 93(?)-97 model adds a viscous coupler for better power distribution and a measure of dampening for all the accumulated driveline slop. (Hence why the 91-92's are extra clunky.)

Cheers,

Curtis

 

[Nay]

The only problem with your 80's case is the lack of a good low range option.

 

[MikePL]

Audaciousduo,

you confuse the purpose of a viscous coupler in an FZJ80. You probably think that this is what only serves a a center differemntial. Well, you are wrong. The center diff is just a typical unit, fully gear driven. The purpose of the viscous coupler is to provide additional traction when one of the axles has a wheel spinning. You can think of it as a semi-automatic center differential lock. If you remove the viscous coupler you have a typical center diff as in most cars.

So I guess it's one more point for the cruiser

 

[CruisinGA]

Cool, I've looked at the part time kits but don't know if the fuel savings would make it worth while.

Part time 4wd meant 2 mpg to me. That adds up quick.

 

[clarkrw3]

While I LOVE my 80 and always will I have always wanted a D90. BTW I think it would be a better compare if you putted the 86 D110 against the FJ60 being the same year wise and not the 94 fzj80.

 

[audaciousduo]

I agree, the Defender 110 and Fj60 comparison would be much closer. I believe the 110 would have the advantage off road due to the long travel coil spring suspension verses the leaf sprung Fj60. How ever a locked up FJ80 would walk all over a 1994 Defender even with the 300 TDI engine.

 

[Jasw]

Defender vs FZJ80

Defender 110 to the FZJ80 is a good apples to apples comparison. 199X, 110" WB, solid axled, coil sprung, 4 wheel disc, full-time 4x4, 3.9/4.0 gas vs a 199X, 112" WB, solid axled, coil sprung, 4 wheel disc. full-time 4x4, 4.5 gas.

I too have owned both, and my F & R locked, 35" tired D110 will walk over my F & R locked 35" tired 97 FZJ80. Off road the lighter, slightly smaller, more flexible Defender wins. On road there is no comparison, the 80 is more comfortable and has better street manners.

 

[audaciousduo]

Ahhhh, But lockers are not a stock option on a defender.

 

[Lka1988]

Not great but the only one I could get with Google. I know that there is a disc conversion kit for the defender. I wonder if anyone makes a kit for the Land Cruiser? Its a goood design idea.

Dave

Hey, I saw that on a RR the other day! I thought it was some sort of balancer...

 

[IdahoDoug]

That's an interesting parking brake discussion. The LandRover uses a setup that requires separate maintainance from the service brakes and operates essentially on the drive train. A couple things can go wrong here. First, break a drive shaft or transfer case offroading and your parking brake no worky. Second, apply the emergency brake on slippery surfaces and because it also brakes the front you could lock up all wheels and lose directional control.

The 80 series has 4 wheel disc brakes for service brakes because discs shed heat better. For emergency/parking brakes the 80 has two more completely separate drum brakes on the rear wheels because drum brakes are better at holding a stopped vehicle. Because they're in the same location as the service brakes, they are more easily serviced during routine maintenance (unfortunately, here in the US our auto service industry is notoriously poor at servicing emergency brakes because we all drive automatics).

So, I'll vote for the 80's parking/emergency brake setup.

DougM

 

[lrnasd90]

Well having owned 9 Defender and now a Fj80 and being a bleed green Land Rover man, I must concede on some of your points, but I don't think it fair to compare a vehicle with locker to one with out. All Fj80 did not come with locker, it was an options, just as it would be for a Defender. (and i might add it doesn't cost the $5K to $6K you suggest, ARB makes locker for defender just as they do for the fj80, basically same price) A Defender is super easy to take apart and repair. Specially body panel wise. And well I just think that a expedition ready Defender is the hottest 4x4 on the planet. I still own both, a Land Rover Defender 90 NAS spec with a 300tdi diesel, galvanized everything...and a LX450 with factory locker, lift... And for the money and comfort hands down the Fj80 wins, but it just isn't a defender. Often times my wife and I say we wish would could take the defender body shell off and put it on the LX450 and then we would have the perfect vehicle...

 

[audaciousduo]

I agree, a fully locked up Defender would be tough competition for an FJ80 but Defenders never came with lockers, even as an option. The british got it half right when they came to the conclusion that axle articulation was the be all and end all. Its a big part of a successful design. Even a fully optioned out Defender does not have lockers and would be easy competition to a locker equipped Fj80. I sold my open differential 110 for $18,000 and purchased the FJ80 for considerably less. I love the land rover as well and was hard to admit that they are over rated. Land rover has some catching up to do and is riding the name plate of decades past. A rubicon, Unimog, G Wagon and FJ80 are all available with lockers and will leave a Defender in the mud. Open diffs are old technology and so is the Defender, not much different than the Series II other than the coil springs.