Front Diff and T-Case Carnage (1 Viewer)

[Cruiserdrew]

How serious was the terrain that you broke all this stuff on? Shotts has been posing his truck for years without that kind of disaster. Similarly, I've seen i4c4lo drive some serious rocks on the rubicon and his truck held together.

This is also similar to the 80 t-case, and I've never even heard of one of them going bad from trail damage. Romer had to replace one, but I think he forgot to put oil in it. Maybe it's the greater torque and power of the v-8?

The post-mortem here is a good case study. Keep the pics, and the speculation coming. That's a big bummer about the rear. Pull the drain plug and tell us if there are any chunks of metal.

 

[rusty_tlc]

How serious was the terrain that you broke all this stuff on? Shotts has been posing his truck for years without that kind of disaster. Similarly, I've seen i4c4lo drive some serious rocks on the rubicon and his truck held together.

This is also similar to the 80 t-case, and I've never even heard of one of them going bad from trail damage. Romer had to replace one, but I think he forgot to put oil in it. Maybe it's the greater torque and power of the v-8?

The post-mortem here is a good case study. Keep the pics, and the speculation coming. That's a big bummer about the rear. Pull the drain plug and tell us if there are any chunks of metal.

From my first hand experience the front diff will fail if you apply a shock load. In my case I was climbing out of a creek bed over a muddy berm, when the frame hit the berm and the front end unloaded the ring/pinion did too.

I may be a bit biased but I wouldn't consider the terrian all that difficullt. Worst case I should have high centered on my frame, got a tug from spressomnon and had a nice day.

 

[tntoyota]

It just pisses me off that the rear is now making noise and I have to get that addressed.

Toyota claims the front went and while the t-case was still trying to hash it out, broke itself and in turn f'd up the rear.

I guess this system is just one big happy family.

What the hell would cause this? This really sucks.

It would seem to me that the only similarity between the front and rear and failure could be the fluid.


And in my mind the reason for the rear just now starting to go is that (2MK) the front is a weaker 7.5" and the rear is HD'er 9.?", that would explain to me the reason they both didn't go at the same time...as a FT 4wd TC is constantly (& I don't know the system) dividing the power...


4WIW


IMO, You'd have to be damn hard on an OPEN front to do that!

 

[chaz]

Is there a solution to prevent this? I would much rather spend some bucks to beef up the diff than run into trouble on the trail. I have a '99...

Thanks in advance.

Chaz

 

[spressomon]

Is there a solution to prevent this? I would much rather spend some bucks to beef up the diff than run into trouble on the trail. I have a '99...

Thanks in advance.

Chaz

Ok...for the thousandth time (well it seems like it anyway ): Anyone that cares enough not to get stuck somewhere with an even larger and more complicated repair bill: INSTALL AN ARB FRONT LOCKER in your '98+ LC NOW. Yes even '00+!!! Consider it necessary and prudent insurance. So far no one has ripped a front '98+ LC R&P that has done this upgrade. That doesn't however mean its indestructible. And 4.30 R&P's for the '99-'02 are getting almost impossible to find...another valid reason to do this mod before you are forced to...unless you're planning to go 4.88's anyway .

So do yourself, your family and friends a favor: Get the ARB locker up front. Even if you do not install the compressor, switch, etc. the ARB carrier apparently adds enough additional rigidity & support to eliminate, so far, the dreaded R&P shear.

This should be mandatory reading at the top of the FAQ list!!!

 

[sleeoffroad]

I would still hook it up. I think the shock loads with tires in the air and spinning, then suddenly grabbing traction is what causes a lot of there breakages.

You can get 4.3 gears from Toyota, they are just expensive. It makes more sense to buy a complete diff than gears, but at that point, and ARB would have been cheaper. It is no guarantee, but the insides of the ARB is made from 300m that exceeds the factory stuff. I think unlocked the ARB has a better chance to survive the shock loads, but locked you will probably not break it.

As for the Marks gears in the transfercase, they fit, but not sure they are worth the $'s since the difference is so small.

 

[slimbuddha]

How much of a ding is it to the wallet to get the ARB front done?

 

[rusty_tlc]

How much of a ding is it to the wallet to get the ARB front done?

Posted this up last week. One thing i didn't include was the cost of the FSM, which is essential to doing the job right.
I think it's considered a 20 hour job by the shops so add $2K if you have a shop do the work.

Here are actual numbers;

I'm looking at my receipt from River City Differentials.
$1350.56
This includes $25 to have the center section shipped from Sac to Reno.
Add $140.00 for the ARB
Add $30 for the spiffy 80 series locker switch, didn't see the receipt
Add $50 for axle boots, might as well do that while you have the rig torn down right? $24.40 ea from Fletcher Jones, have the receipt.
Add $394.06 for bearings gaskets and bushings, I'm looking at the receipt from Fletcher Jones on that one.

$1351.00
$25.00
$140.00
$30.00
$50.00
$394.00
$1596

Call it $1600 Thats doing all the labor yourself, or with the help of great friends like spressomon and locrwln1.

You could cut some corners but why not do the PM's while you have it all apart?


It's called the "while your at" it syndrome, or do it right do it once.

 

[bluecruiser]

I got a quote here in Phoenix for 1800 installed...locker, compressor, wiring, etc. This was from a national 4wd shop...4wheelparts.. I will be doing this soon. I have read way too many diff blow ups lately..

It includes Toyota new seals and necessary pieces/parts..

 

[Liam]

Is there a solution to prevent this? I would much rather spend some bucks to beef up the diff than run into trouble on the trail. I have a '99...

Thanks in advance.

Chaz

i have a 98 that i am slowing transitioning into a trial rig.....i am in the same thinking you are - looks like i will drop an ARB in the front before hitting harder trails.

 

[1loudLX]

noooooooo mac all but nearly forgot about this why did you revive it? Hes going to have scary flashbacks now

 

[gray]

I went through this thread again;
it is a bit scary to someone thinking of buying a 100 series;

Has this ever happened to the average driver while on pavement or semi-rough dirt roads?

Or just on rigs climbing rough rocky trails, etc with wheels spinning in the air, as mentioned?

Seems very odd that this would happen unless extreme loads were placed on the diffs; as apparently happened; on the other hand, why would Toyota not make a stouter diff to start with? ie: if ARB can do it, why not Toyota? Of course, that is the answer everybody wants.

Is it in the design, the thickness/number of the teeth, the hardening of the teeth/ring, the type of steel, etc??

G

 

[lowtideride]

Ok,
So whats the plan on the trail when the third goes and no one has a spare. I don't have an 100 but one just joined our club, and in the event this would happen I would like to know what to do.

I would assume the 100 series have drive flanges? could you just pull them and drop the front drive shaft to get off the trail in 2wd?

Thanks for the info...
-Al

 

[spressomon]

Ok,
So whats the plan on the trail when the third goes and no one has a spare. I don't have an 100 but one just joined our club, and in the event this would happen I would like to know what to do.

I would assume the 100 series have drive flanges? could you just pull them and drop the front drive shaft to get off the trail in 2wd?

Thanks for the info...
-Al

Exactly. If you want to be VERY prepared then buy 2 hub flanges and machine the splines out...it'll keep dust/grit from contaminating the bearings. Drop the front drive shaft and you're good for $1,800.00 .

 

[spressomon]

I went through this thread again;
it is a bit scary to someone thinking of buying a 100 series;

Has this ever happened to the average driver while on pavement or semi-rough dirt roads?

Or just on rigs climbing rough rocky trails, etc with wheels spinning in the air, as mentioned?

Seems very odd that this would happen unless extreme loads were placed on the diffs; as apparently happened; on the other hand, why would Toyota not make a stouter diff to start with? ie: if ARB can do it, why not Toyota? Of course, that is the answer everybody wants.

Is it in the design, the thickness/number of the teeth, the hardening of the teeth/ring, the type of steel, etc??

G

Toyota did it again with the FJ...

 

[macneill]

Thanks Noah ya fawk. And I thought I was gonna sleep well tonight.

 

[1loudLX]

on the other hand, why would Toyota not make a stouter diff to start with? ie: if ARB can do it, why not Toyota? Of course, that is the answer everybody wants.

Two possibilities come to mind, 1: cost effective design that meets the demands of 90%+ of owners, and 2: during the testing phase they never came across this problem so it was never addressed.

 

[gray]

Two possibilities come to mind, 1: cost effective design that meets the demands of 90%+ of owners, and 2: during the testing phase they never came across this problem so it was never addressed.

Could be also that in the harsher environments of the world, they apparently get the 105 series, which has the solid front axle with a ?stronger diff? They did not expect the Americans to run it up rock ledges, maybe.

Either way, a bit disconcerting.

On the new Tundra, they are touting the larger beefier diff ring, etc.
Maybe they have learned something? Also wonder if the HJ200 has been designed to better handle the stresses? That is a whole nuther thread I guess.

G

 

[gray]

Toyota did it again with the FJ...

LIke no kidding; heck, those pieces of tin are tearing themselves apart.
g

 

[hoser]

Could be also that in the harsher environments of the world, they apparently get the 105 series, which has the solid front axle with a ?stronger diff?

The 105 has it's share of front diff breakages too... though likely not as frequent.