Front bench or not? (1 Viewer)

[flx]

Hi,

As the resto of my truck is progressing I have to take care of the seats if I want something nice to enjoy driving it soon.
I'm hesitating in which configuration to put back my truck as of front seating.

I'll talk after of the originality and specificity of my truck but first a generic question.

Is a driver seat from a 3-seater configuration less confortable than a 2-seater configuration ?
I've looked to a lot of pictures and in a bench configuration, in LHD, the driver seat is not centered in front of the steering wheel. I'd like some people that have tested both configuration to express their feeling about the 2 kinds of configurations.
Is-it better a little off from the pedal for knee placement ?
Do you have enough space for your left elbow ?
Which one do you prefer ?




To come back to my personal case, my truck is a 1974 that was originally delivered with a 3-seater front bench seat (with headrest). In France, 1974 is the first year of import of Land Cruiser and the only one some Cruiser were delivered in that configuration. So the bench configuration is very very rare here.
It was originally sold to an IBM engineer (who had probably eager to get one for some time as he got the very 1st one that landed in France). His wife found that it was too uncomfortable so Toyota helped him a bit...

2 nice suspension seats from Bostrom for extra confort.

And the original front passenger bench became a rear passenger bench:

In 1976 the wife of the IBM guy became pregnant and he had no choice, he had to get rid of it and get a confortable car. My father bought it.
He received the original driver seat with it and asked Toyota to install a 2nd rear bench on the left (an expected one this time).
A few years ago when we searched fo it in the basement... it had disappeared, probably scraped at some point is the last 45 years... :/


Now to the present, the rear is easy, I found a correct rear right bench and it will go back to an expected configuration (maybe a question of color to match the front).

To the front I see a lot more of possibilities :
- 2 Bostrom
- OEM complete front bench (but the driver seat will be very hard to find for me)
- OEM Passenger bench + OEM bucket seat for driver
- OEM Passenger bench + Bostrom for driver (with a same color for both obviously)

Obviously there is some thing cool about going back to OEM, to the rare (here) front bench and to the vintage vibe that goes with. But if it's a pain to drive like that maybe not worth it...
And I think the Bostrom also have a plea here, they are part of the history of the vehicle, they basically always have been there in the front. I don't believe they were intended by Toyota as accessory for this vehicle but I'm pretty sure I have already seen old Toyota forklifts with these seats so they don't comme from nowhere. They are high quality and what Toyota was using back then as suspension seat. And obviously they bring a bit of comfort is these 40.
It's also to note that it's still possible to find some spare parts for these, at least the correct shock, probably the seat foam and maybe a black cover.


So, it's already a lot of opinions to take here...

 

[JohnnyC]

The buckets are more comfy then the bench ... I also like the history of the bostrom seats

Maybe matching material in a charcoal gray to match your rare oem door cards/panels

74’ in a lot of markets got the buckets... an oem 74’ bench WITH head rests is another rarity ... the headrest shape was only for a few years as well... soooo that’s also a cool part

I understand how your on the fence with this ... but... imho use the bostroms and maybe eventually get everything u need for the bench

 

[JohnnyC]

Btw are those 16 or 15” split rims with the hubcap clips?

16” w/clips is rare.... 15” is more rare but less desirable

 

[bikersmurf]

I've been riding in bucket seats in my '74 for 29 years now. Even with an iffy back at the best of times, I find them very comfortable.

I've only briefly sat on the bench seat of my parts truck for a few minutes... that was more than enough. I've had a couple of other bucket seats in my 40... in the end I went back to stock. The stock seats have stood up for decades... the 82' SR5 seats I had only lasted a couple years before they started to deteriorate.

 

[flx]

The buckets are more comfy then the bench ... I also like the history of the bostrom seats

Maybe matching material in a charcoal gray to match your rare oem door cards/panels

74’ in a lot of markets got the buckets... an oem 74’ bench WITH head rests is another rarity ... the headrest shape was only for a few years as well... soooo that’s also a cool part

I understand how your on the fence with this ... but... imho use the bostroms and maybe eventually get everything u need for the bench

Yep for the color if I keep the Bostrom it's a question in itself. I could as you say put everything back in charcoal gray. But as to keep the Bostrom I find their color quite beautiful and goes well with the Rustic Green of truck (and I'm used to it). But is this case do I match rear seat and door trim to the Bostrom or keep the bi-color as it is.... lot of questions to decide

The Bostrom while they give you extra confort they have a few issues also (that I may be able to improve a bit):
- Driver : seat is high when not seated on it so getting in between the steering wheel and seat is a bit difficult. Not sure I can get it lower but I think I could get it a little farther back to help.
- Passenger : seat is on gas tank and is very high even when seated on it, not a big problem but you fill high and it can be a bit weird (particularly offroad). I can win a few cm by removing the passenger sliders but not much...

Note that for the door trim I have only the driver side so I will need to do at least the passenger side and probably the driver for them to match (I have hardware for both at least).

This OEM driver seat the only place I have seen some is in the US from imported BJ40... Last time I tried to see if I could buy one the seller asked me 500$ for shipping alone (for complete bench tho), add the price of the seat and taxes + re-doing the seats and the price is trough the moon...
I know that not too far from here Portugal got a lot more Cruisers in 3-seater configuration but I just don't know how to look to their used parts market...

This is what this bench should look like I think :

Toyota LandCruiser FJ40 - BJ40 - BJ42 Front seats - Front bench

Blog about the vintage Toyota LandCruiser FJ40 - BJ40 - BJ42. In short the LandCruiser 40 series or J4.

clazziccruisers.blogspot.com

The headrest I have at least one to go with the passenger bench !

 

[flx]

Btw are those 16 or 15” split rims with the hubcap clips?

16” w/clips is rare.... 15” is more rare but less desirable

Yes it's 16" with hubcap clip !
We only got 16" in France (Europe ?) but we never got hubcap to my knowledge.
Speaking of rarity, to my knowledge only 74' got the clips here (another weirdness of 1st year of import).

Sadly the wheel proved to be in a not so good condition:


The ring are definitely gone and too dangerous to be used in this condition.
For the wheel after sandblasting it seems they are salvageable but they have lost quite some material in the inside :/

I would need to find new rings... good news is Toyota kept the same part number for them all along the 70-series split rims so they are available. Bad news is Toyota sell them for 75€ a piece here...

I found 4 original 16" non-clips wheel for as low of 100€ that I use to a wheels for the frame currently but I have remorse to scavenge them as they are almost new.

 

[flx]

I've been riding in bucket seats in my '74 for 29 years now. Even with an iffy back at the best of times, I find them very comfortable.

I've only briefly sat on the bench seat of my parts truck for a few minutes... that was more than enough. I've had a couple of other bucket seats in my 40... in the end I went back to stock. The stock seats have stood up for decades... the 82' SR5 seats I had only lasted a couple years before they started to deteriorate.

Is-it the seat itself you found less confortable or the seating position of the bench ?

 

[bikersmurf]

The seat itself. Bench seats are flat and offer no lateral support. I've rebuilt my lower cushions with Memory foam and increased the contour while , I can't wait tp do the same to the backs.

In my opinion there'd be nothing better than a stock looking seat that had the comfort and support of a higher end seat. When I quickly threw on the covers I left the backs stock, given I have even made custom foam in place memory foam seats... I know I can build them way more comfortable,,, but that'll be a project for another day.

 

[flx]

Thanks !

The Bostrom are quite comfy, I don't remember having back pain on them (but right knee pain yes...).

To re-do the Bostrom I have 3 options, probably from the most expensive to the less :
- Only getting the new cushion foam and asking my local upholstery shop to do the full seat in charcoal grey (as back benches and door trims).
- Only getting the cushion foam and have a local upholstery shop trying to match the back color (camel) and original pattern. In this case I would keep the door trim charcoal for sure, for back benches not sure between camel and charcoal
- Getting a complete Bostrom kit foam+cover with cushion and backrest in black vinyl (darker than Toyota charcoal I think) or black/grey fabric (see under). If i also want the headrest I'll have to buy new ones also. And here do I try to match the color of door trim and back seat or I keep them charcoal ?

Camel is a very cool color for seats I think and it goes well with the Rustic Green. It's also the color that has always been there on this truck.
Black vinyl may be close enough from Toyota Vinyl but hard to say for sure. They may/could be mismatched with an OEM bucket seat to an untrained eye.
Black fabric has the advantage to not burn in the summer and may match better with the charcoal vinyl than having 2 close shades of black/grey vinyl next of each other.


Trying to decide with all the possibilities in front of me is kind of a therapy...

 

[flx]

So I think this topic needs some update.

I took the most reasonable choice at this point. If I want to go for one of the other options in the future I still could.
Spare parts from Bostrom/Kab were readily available and for a fair price, damper+covers+foam (seat and back) for 2 seats cost me 360£ delivered to my door in 3 days, not bad compared to any of the other options.

From left to right :
Front seat as installed since 1974 / Front seat with new foam+covers+dampers / Original front bench

I will re-do, probably with a kit, the back benches myself later I think and for the door cards I'll have to see if I can do that myself or if I better go to upholstery shop.

 

[Ken Fryncko]

This is interesting. I've been thinking about putting buckets in my ride only so that the seat belts would be better - even though i like being able to put my arm around my lady while driving. Is there truth to the fact that the driver's side seat wouldn't be centered in front of the steering wheel? Can I get bucket seats installed with minimal difficulty? Mine is a 70 of Colombian origin.

 

[flx]

My driver seat is centered to the steering wheel but as you can see to do that it's not centered on the original mounts.
My right mount is on the original right mount and the left one is 28cm appart resting on 2 metal bar soldered between the original mounts. So if you use the original mounts or center to them your seat will not be centered to the steering wheel, as the original driver seat in bench configuration is.

 

[flx]

So... Almost 2 years, this thread needs a lot of updates I guess.

Lets start with the Bostrom seats.

Even in black they really nicely find their place in the 40, the cloth covers are nice during summer to not burn your butt, could almost look like original (period correct at least, which they are).

I even found a new slide that I would adapt to push back the driver seat, that made a huge bump in comfort, particularly for my right knee and helped to get in easily.

Last year I did a 2500km roadtrip with them and they are really comfy, even without the suspension. For a seat design of the 70's and that look basic they are really ergonomic.
They can be set in a lot of way both for the back and the bottom independently but the best part is simply its shape.

The bottom has more height of foam in the center giving a comfy place for your butt to seat on.

In the back it's the opposite, these is a little recess and less foam which make a natural lombard support.

Even in modern cars I often feel some back pain in long journeys but on these seats I really feel good for entire days of driving. A really great design job from Bostrom back then (which probably explain why those seats were sold new from at least 1974 to 2014).

Not even talking again about the spare parts available and that it can be entirely dismantled and reassembled with a screwdriver and a wrench...

 

[flx]

Now to the defaults of those Bostrom.

First, they are really heavy, I would say probably close to 40kg each. Maneuvering them in or out the FJ40 is a giant pain and 2 of those are probably using 1/5 of my payload.

Second, they are a good bit higher than stock and while it's manageable for the driver seat, the passenger seat sitting over the tank can't get lower.
So the passenger is sitting really high and if your passenger is a tall person his line os sight will be slightly over the top of the windshield... not great.

Third, the suspension can be good but needs to be precisely set for your weight (and you may want a different setting between on-road and off-road).
And as the passenger is already too high and often the passenger is not accustomed with how to set correctly set the suspension they will set it low to have the seat on the bump stop to try to be lower in the cabin. In this case when you drive over a big bump the seat will just go flying to the top and fall back to the bump stop which is not the most comfortable experience.
Even as a driver you tend to set it slightly low for more space between the steering wheel and your legs.


Fourth, they are not great for storage options.
- They don't fold at all. If you need to carry something long or whatever your only solution is to remove them (see 1st point). Even the option of unmounting the back would not work great because of how the main structure of the seat is made.
- You can't stuff things against their back because of the suspension. Anything again the back of one of these seats will great seriously crush with a big force at the first bump.


Next to come:
- Hybrid seating Bostrom / Original bench
- 73-78 Original seats science
- Seat belts

 

[bikersmurf]

I’d contact switching to a Rear fuel tank, and removing the front one. This would allow the seats to be at stock height and to clean up the mounting.

 

[flx]

I’d contact switching to a Rear fuel tank, and removing the front one. This would allow the seats to be at stock height and to clean up the mounting.

It would help for sure but I'm too much of a purist to do that x)
I'd worst I'd had a rear tank as auxiliary for longer range but I don't see myself removing the original one.

 

[Downey]

Many tall guys (6'3" and taller) get rid of the stock tank (install rear aux. tank) so they can go bucket seats and mount them lower so they are not looking out the windshield up at wiper blade level.

 

[flx]

Sure but I think with he original seat the height is ok, at least for someone of average size ~1.80m.

And to continue on the updates for this thread...
Look what I found

So now I really have the opportunity to test and think about what setup I want between full Bostrom, hybrid Bostrom+front bench, full stock seats.

So the hybrid setup, obviously for the bench seat to fit in the passenger I need to move the driver seat toward the door (as it's currently centered ont he steering wheel).
And for there is something I had noticed for some time...

The seat support (based on original with an added transversale bar) has an extra set of holes with the correct entraxe...
My guess is if I translate the driver seat and use those holes the bench would fit on the passenger side.

This would mean the first owner story of asking Toyota to install suspension seat for his wife that found the FJ40 too uncomfortable may be not completely true as that may means that he started with only the driver seat. I had also doubts for a long time because the 2 seats have small differences (oval hole vs a round hole...) that would point they are not from the same batch.

And tada it works, drop-in and bolt-in with no modification to the supports to do!

Yes those original seats need to be restored. It's not comfortable at all for now, the foam are dead, you can fill the metal bar on the bottom and the back xD

Off course it looks a bit weird those 2 seats different next to each other but I could have them to match in look in a restoring them (either doing the original seat in black cloth or also changing the cover of the Bostrom, it's easy to do).
Bostrom with the suspension is obviously quite higher but once seated the height is close:

So, what the point of this configuration?
- Comfortable driver seat to drive long distance/time + lower passenger seat.
- The vibe of the 3-seater configuration even if the middle seat is almost unusable by anything else than a small kid.
- A reclining passenger seat to be able to carry long object or sleep in the truck...

See FJ40 long range use? - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/fj40-long-range-use.776555/post-14406964



The driving position not in front of the steering wheel does not feel as bad as I thought it would, The only thing is I now understand the Land Rover drivers with the B-pillar just next to my shoulder. Still have to test with some real driving distance.


Next I have to test fit the original driver seat to test the difference in comfort and if a Bostrom is worth having unmatching seats or I could simply go with full original vibes.

 

[flx]

So, the original driver seat.

When buying those seats I had noticed the left front foot was different than the one I had:

As my seat support from 1974 is kind of cumbersome I thought that Toyota decided to simplify it and make it more straightforward. My plan was to use my original structure and feet with the new seat I bought. At worst adapting the newer structure on my original feet should have been not too complicated...



But...

no, the newer structure (and seat) is 3cm less wide than the one from my 1974.

The driver seat in this 3-seater configuration is very simple, the outside perimeter of the seat is directly bolted to the (slide and the) structure and so the seat has the same width than the structure (not like the seat in the 2-seater configuration).

So... I can't simply bolt the seat on my original structure because one of the side would not fit over the longitudinale structure... I could try to mount it on my 2 transversale bar (1 originale, 1 added for my current seats) but would most likely not line up nicely.

To use the structure that came with the seat I would have to adapt the 2 left feet. The front one as mentioned should be easily doable but the real problem is the rear one:

I'm already not really willing to add holes in my original tub and particularly ro replace a soldered nut by just hole but actually here the big problem is that this is a tub cross member and I don't have access to the other side...

So... I don't know what I'm doing about this seat... I would really had wished to test a 100% original setup to make my mind.

 

[flx]

This post change nothing to the question "what to do" but it's to try to understand the differences between the <=1974 seat and the >=1975 ones and why this change happened.

This is the partnumber of the driver seat frame support:

We can see a change of part number in 07/1974 without a superseed compatibility, and actually we can see the exact same change for most of the part of the driver seat that are impacted by the width (foam, covers, left foot, etc.).

Metallic parts that are not impacted by the width of the driver seat (hinges, center foot, slide, etc.) also change partnumber in 07/1974 but are superseeded by the new one. My guess is it matches when Toyota went from a gray painted seat frame to a black painted one.


As mentioned in my previous post there is a 3cm difference between the <07/74 structure and the >07/74 one.
You can see in those 2 pictures the fitment of the <07/74 frame in my 1974 FJ40 with old style door and the fitment of the >07/74 frame in a 1978 BJ40 with new style door:

I think you guessed my hypothesis... Toyota new the new style door was coming and that they were wider than the old ones and the older structure would probably have touch the door so they chosed the easiest solution and shrunk the driver seat...



For comparison, the Bostrom versus the >07/1974 original driver seat:

It's an interesting comparison because the Bostrom fit very very nicely between the passenger bench and the door, almost as it was made for that, so it would have made sens to have an original seat of similar width with the older door.
>07/1974 original seat is 43cm wide
Bostrom seat is 48cm wide