follow-up to this weekend's question on plugs (hard starting gotten worse)

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D

d'oh

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ok, so I switched out some ancient Densos from the PO with Autolites (had the wrong NGKs and the plugs needed switching). I am an unabashed neophyte in working on the 60, and this was the first time I had switched out plugs. The 60 has always been a hard starter, especially in cold weather (I've got a Weber carb I'm going to swap for stock Aisin when I get the cash, and I think the timing needs adjusting). But, I've always been able to get her to crank with a little coaxing, and just dealt with her running a little rich.

So at lunch today it's not remotely cold (pushing 80 deg F) and the engine turns and turns but won't roll over when I go to start. Sounds like it's flooded. So I wait awhile, pop the hood and flick the fuel filter to make it look like I know what I'm doing, and it still doesn't crank. Wait awhile longer and try again, same result. Wait awhile longer, and try again, after rubbing the dashboard and telling the 60 how great she is, how far she's come in our short time together, and how much I'd appreciate it if she'd crank so I could get back to work, and finally with a bunch of sputtering and white smoke she cranks. I run it in neutral, idling a little higher than usual, for a bit before dropping the hood, and then head back to work, with her running just fine.

My initial thought is that I may have put the plugs in too tight, would this affect starting? Couldn't tell whether they were "gasketed" or not, so I just gave a couple cranks with the ratchet wrench past hand tight. Any other thoughts? As always, much appreciated, you guys are a great resource.
 
Exactly how much white smoke came out? Did it smell sweet?

Definately check for a metal ring up at the top of the threads of the plugs.
 
it had metal rings, I guess those are gaskets.....and that the plugs are in too tight. would that make a difference?

smoke was white and I didn't notice any smell, fwiw it always blows a little (ok, a good bit of) smoke on startup.
 
It doesn't sound like you have the plugs in too tight, and anyway that wouldn't make a difference in how they worked. Are the plugs gapped correctly? Did you replace anything else? Dizzy cap/wires/rotor & air filter for example?
 
Check your gap on the plugs and make sure all ignition wires are well attached. How long have you owned the 60?
 
Maybe those are also the wrong plugs for the truck. The guy screwed up the order before, didn't he?
 
d'oh said:
it had metal rings, I guess those are gaskets.....and that the plugs are in too tight. would that make a difference?

smoke was white and I didn't notice any smell, fwiw it always blows a little (ok, a good bit of) smoke on startup.
Click to expand...


Tell me exactly "How do you start your FJ60?" What do you do?
How does it/do you start when cold/warm
What is your fuel consumption?
Is your ignition timing correct?
How do your plug look like? (electrode image)
How about your carb?
Fuel pump?
Airfilter?
Are you pulling the choke on a warm engine?

I'm sure I can diagnose it with a little more info!

Rob

-White(ish) smoke upon startup is likely oil leaking down from the valve stems.
-There is no such thing as "too tight" plugs!
 
First of all make sure that the plugs you put in are the correct plug and gaped correctly. Next check you timing with a timing light. Timing that is way out of whack will cause a hard start. White smoke is coolant, blue smoke is oil, and black smoke is flooded or running rich. Do a vacuum and compression check and finally get rid of that Weber and go back to the stock carb.
 
thanks for the input. she started right up after work last night, so maybe I just flooded her at lunch, though it's odd, hasn't happened before. lots of good questions I'll try to answer in turn.

plug questions

* plugs are gapped properly, around .31/.32

* didn't replace anything else

* they're the right plugs for the truck, though Autolites, I went somewhere else and looked them up in the book


How long have you owned the 60?

since last summer, so almost a year. always been a hard starter. have been on here a couple of times but not really started messing with it myself until recently

Rob's questions

Tell me exactly "How do you start your FJ60?" What do you do?

* in cold weather, pull choke all the way out, floor it, and crank. it will spin for awhile before catching. a pump or two doesn't seem to speed things up. in warm weather, usually just floor it and it will crank after a little while or "rrrrrrrrrrrr"

What is your fuel consumption?

* awful. the odometer is out of whack from the PO so I don't know exactly, but it is bad.

Is your ignition timing correct?

* I'm almost certain it is not. Have been meaning to figure out if this is something I can do myself or if I need to drop it off.

How do your plug look like? (electrode image)

* they were crusty, I looked in the back of the Haynes and they matched the ones that said "hard starting"

How about your carb?

* Weber, don't know any more about it, I went to the POs mechanic who said "this carb is awesome, but takes some tinkering to get her going sometimes." as I posted on here once before, to me, an awesome carb would be one that did not need tinkering to fire up the engine

Fuel pump?

* No idea. It had been sitting for awhile when I bought it, and had a bunch of crap in the fuel lines. My old mechanic told me to just load up on the $3 fuel filters and swap them out as soon as the looked crappy, which was great advice, the gas in the filters is much cleaner now.

Airfilter?

* got an old K&N (?) type from the PO. It is the kind you have to oil to clean, I have done this but it doesn't make any difference. Swap to paper?

Are you pulling the choke on a warm engine?

* sometimes, is that wrong. . . ?

I'm sure I can diagnose it with a little more info!

* you are the man

humper

Do a vacuum and compression check

* Don't know about vacuum, but compression numbers are excellent

and finally get rid of that Weber and go back to the stock carb.

* it's definitely on my "to do to the 60" list, someday. . .
 
I personally have had bad luck with Autolite. Champions work great, and, of course, Denso etc.

...
 
Timing is super easy to set-get an induction light and have someone show you how. It's an essential skill with a 2F. Do that first. No way the spark plugs are causing this problem-even if they are crappy plugs, you can replace with NDs when you get a chance. Even AutoZone carries the ND plugs for this motor. Do check that your wires are good and not cracked, and that they are hooked up in the right order. The 2F will run OK on 4 cylinders, so look for misplaced wires.

Make sure the valves are set properly. If they are not, it can cause all sorts of problems.

Look and listen for vacuum leaks, this is a common cause of poor running. I'm having problems with the smoke though. Also check that your vacuum lines are intact and hooked up, especially with the carb hack.

Get rid of the Weber carb. That is like so 1986. Th Aisin stock carb is better in every way, and Webers virtually always run rich. Fuel consumption is usually higher than stock as well. Talk or PM FJ40Jim on this board. That's Jim Chenowith and widely acknowledged as the finest Aisin carb rebuilder in the country. He did my FJ40 5 years ago and it's been absolutely great. He usually has carbs around that need a rebuild, so a core charge and a rebuild charge, and you've got yourself the right stuff and a permanent fix.

I'm going to go way out an a limb and say it won't be right untill the Weber is out and the Aisin is back in. I hope you have the linkage pieces-they are kind of scarce.

Good luck, and keep us posted on your progress. Based on the Weber I used to have on my FJ40, Weber = Evil. Others will disagree, but it's my story and I'm sticking to it!:cheers:
 
thanks all, especially Drew. I will check the timing when I get a chance and post back with the results. The Weber-for-Aisin swap is definitely on the horizon . . .
 
Cruiserdrew said:
...

I'm going to go way out an a limb and say it won't be right untill the Weber is out and the Aisin is back in.

...

Based on the Weber I used to have on my FJ40, Weber = Evil. Others will disagree, but it's my story and I'm sticking to it ...
Click to expand...

I'll buy your Weber ...
;)

I'll add one additional item to Cruiserdrew's statements ...

Aisin carb + Aisin distributor = great combination.

Weber + Aisin = asking for problems unless you really know what you are doing.

Weber + DUI = not bad IMHO (but there are trade-offs).

Cheers,
Cahil

P.S. You'll note one truck is full stock ...
 
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