fj80 needing some love

[frankies off road]

Hi
I am frankie fountain owner of frankies off road in rainbow city AL. and i am a new member,I have lurked around this site for a week or so and its cool as it gets for cruisers,

To the point FOR has a new shop truck a 93 fzj80 and i think we at FOR are gona builder up.We had a downey 2.5 kit laying around so i thought i would go get this rig and put it on.and after a week of that i am boord and looking at manufactering a custom FOR suspension for the 80. I need to keep the 80 long distance friendly so i can use it for my sniper matches and cargo +3 MORE WONABE SNIPERS..and some family type light trail duty(SO MY WIFE THINKS ),I am getting back to my off roading roots I have wheeled yota's in my early days and i guess all things go in circles ,

I have 488 and 529 gears in stock as well as ARB'S but I am having a portal bug in my ear.maybe cause i have some portals laying around..but they are 416 mogs and way overkill,maybe volvo portals if they are road friendly(I have never used volvo potals)SO they may suck ?

maybe we can keep the yota axles they look beafy to me ! i have gone threw the front axle my diff got strung on DOPE from the unworthy owner i took the 80 frome.

looking for opinions here.

build#1
slee 4" sus or somthing custom?
488 gears
arb's
35" radial's factory wheels
arbbumber 9000lbs/superwinch
my shop rock sliders and rear bumper
ARB SNORKLE
part time kit

build #2
custom 7" sus built by my shop
37" tires what brand ? factory wheels
488 or 529's
arb's
arb front bumper/9000lbs super winch
my shop built rock sliders and rear bumper
arb snorkle
part time kit
long fields?

build#3
custom 4 link front with track bar
custom 4 link rear with track bar
vovol portals on coil overs
39" irocks
ARB bumper/9000lbs super winch
my shop rock sliders and rear bumper
ARB snorkle
my shop internal chromolly roll cage.

new shop truck

old shop truck still in use but it sorta went overkill.


thats my ideas what your thoughts?

F.FOUNTAIN

 

[woody]

hey Frankie

the stock axles are beefy, toss in a set of 80-size Longfields and yer about set there....

you couldn't give me a superwinch but the ARB is a nice bumper...for more hardcore, check out some offered by Slee, Hanna, IPOR, MT, and others...added approach angles and stronger recovery points than the ARB.

PortalTek is on here regularly, and has a 80-project going too...check the Hardcore corner

welcome

(check the Marketplace corner for some 80-specific stuff too, some seriously kewl things out there from a variety of folks!)

 

[Atticus]

Welcome to the board, Frankie. I look forward to seeing your build.

Jay

 

[PHAEDRUS]

on the portals look for a guy with the sig tiredirongb. Ibeleive it was a set of volvo portals he fitted to his truck ans has been very happy with them.
I think it might be overkill, but what that is fun is not?
Dave

 

[frankies off road]

hey Frankie

the stock axles are beefy, toss in a set of 80-size Longfields and yer about set there....

you couldn't give me a superwinch but the ARB is a nice bumper...for more hardcore, check out some offered by Slee, Hanna, IPOR, MT, and others...added approach angles and stronger recovery points than the ARB.

PortalTek is on here regularly, and has a 80-project going too...check the Hardcore corner

welcome

(check the Marketplace corner for some 80-specific stuff too, some seriously kewl things out there from a variety of folks!)

fabrication of bumpers is not an issue as we fabricat in house,it would be hard to build a bumper as nice as ARB for the money and weight,what is your winch of choice I hope its not warn ,we sell both brands and the ep9000 hands down is a better winch than warn counterpart,we also service warn winches on a weekly basis,I have a warn m12000 on the f250 and a SW ep9000 on the rear at 3 am this morning the warn let me down so i backed the 250 up to the jeep in need and the super winch did its job as it has done time and time again.
time to upgrade the m12000 to a 12,500 super winch I just put it on our truck order this am,


not trying to start to pisser on my first post but if it must be then it must be.and i hate pissing off the moderaterLOL
thanks for your input woody..

thanks for the welcome guys.

 

[fzj80kidpen]

Welcome FOR
Look forward to seeing some new fab work up.

 

[esde]

Tiredirongb has an extensive thread on the landcruiser section of Pirate4x4. He swapped in those volvo portals in something like 4 weeks! Definitely overkill, but they seemed to fit well, and were much less work than what some guys go through th get mog axles. FWIW I have a 416 mog, and those axles are geared way too low to put under an 80, without going to a 14.00r20 tire, which is about 46" tall! Actaully come to think, check out his site http://tired-iron.mounet.com/ he's done some nice military restos. SD

 

[woody]

not trying to start to pisser on my first post but if it must be then it must be.and i hate pissing off the moderaterLOL
thanks for your input woody..

I'm too lazy to be pissed off....lol

I've got the ARB with a T-Max 10k on my 80-series and love it...but for approach angles and such, some of the other "small" vendors have nicer products, with improved approach angles and stronger pull points...a must for the hardcore crowd (even shop-bitch hardcore...lol)

My 8274 and my ancient Bellevue are unstoppable, and I've watched too many SW's, Ramsey's, and others die at inopportune times...the last SW to winch me over was so slow, I could have disassembled my truck and flipped by hand faster.... (I also recognize that maintenance/setup is part of that, but I just haven't had a warn fail me)



IMO, a full link setup with 37's would be very kewl on the 80....I've seen yer fab stuff (still doin BL's??) so I know the sky is the limit...

 

[frankies off road]

I'm too lazy to be pissed off....lol

I've got the ARB with a T-Max 10k on my 80-series and love it...but for approach angles and such, some of the other "small" vendors have nicer products, with improved approach angles and stronger pull points...a must for the hardcore crowd (even shop-bitch hardcore...lol)

My 8274 and my ancient Bellevue are unstoppable, and I've watched too many SW's, Ramsey's, and others die at inopportune times...the last SW to winch me over was so slow, I could have disassembled my truck and flipped by hand faster.... (I also recognize that maintenance/setup is part of that, but I just haven't had a warn fail me)



IMO, a full link setup with 37's would be very kewl on the 80....I've seen yer fab stuff (still doin BL's??) so I know the sky is the limit...

8274 is the king of winches agreed,'

the new ep series from super winch are the same ratio as the warns now come 156;1
SUPER WINCH EP SERIES has contacters far better than solinoids, and no clicky clicky when ya need the winch the most.the free wheel handle on super winch ep series has a pin drop style release and is much better than warn.same performance series wound motor and HP,the planatary in the super winch ep is larger and has a large bearing on the end of the planatary.and they do not sound like meet grinders like the warns,more of a german electric motor sound very smooth.
In AL. the wet muddy crap will test your winch 100% warn is a good winch but the new EP series super winch has adresed the short comings they had and outdone warn (IN MY OPINION).
I am with ya on the OLD SW and still avalable x,s and husky series super winches slow heavy and crapy contol boxes.
I here the T-MAX is a tank,i new about them before they where avalable here in the usa from some aussies i build some toys for and shiped over.

I didnt think anyone here would know who i was from the chassis /rockcrawlers.

what does BL'S stand for build's ? if so yessir we are building chassis and full ground uo off road vehicals,and we have been doing 80'S regular bolt on parts.been thinking about manufacturing and building suspension systems for the 80,I have a system on the board as we speek ,but lots of R@D before i would even think on mass production.

seems to me the radius arms suck and need full replacment with a fiur link for better articulation and front to rear sus ballance,

i like the 37's and full sus remanufacturing to better off road specs,
I did ask opinions and i should have not responded like i did no sleep and a muddy recover at 3 am pissed me off.

sorry,,and thanks for the chat guys.

F.FOUNTAIN moron in charge:hillbilly

 

[frankies off road]

Welcome FOR
Look forward to seeing some new fab work up.

agreed the 416 are super overkill and for a 4 seater asm buggy project anyway,i never even thought about using them in the 80 but they where the seed for my thoughts on portals,i have woked with taradon to build some of the badest 404's on the planet i sold one set to BTF thats in there buggy now.


I would like to tear this 80 apart today ,but it may be a slow build when i can get it in the door,we have five full build projects going at the moment and two of them are still in the tubing pile.

I think i will build some nerf rock shine nockers first,i took the boards off and cut some DOM but i did not realy have time to do it like i wonted so i put them off,

heres a couple of build going now for the guys that dont know what i do and think I am FOS.;p

 

[Nay]

Sounds like you are planning to offer parts or the whole thing for sale?

I'd like to see somebody put together this solution:

1) Keep the lift as low as possible for 36's/37's. I am thinking Slee 4" coils as a base, nothing more. We've seen 36's on these coils, but the flex is restricted (lowered bumpstops to protect the fenders at the top end of the up travel). Flares can be removed, cosmetic trimming allowed.

2) Balanced flex at all four corners using the full travel of an 11" to 12" travel shock. 4" of up travel, the rest down. I think that means relocated shock mounts. I'd agree it means at least a redesigned radius arm with limiting strap, 3-link, or you could do a four link. Gonna need swaybar disconnects. How much droop pulls the coils too far off the coil tower?

3) Suspension handles road and offroad equally. No "unloading" of the front end on rock climbs (a problem with radius arms with a lot of lift), no inherent suspension bind limiting droop, and no undue tendencies to flop on its side (a consideration when redesigning the front end). Swaybars connected onroad, disco'd offroad.

4) Clearance is optimized wherever possible - the overall clearance of the taller lift in critical areas without actually having that much lift and the issues that come with it. This could mean new axle and frame mounts to go with new heavy duty brackets and arms.

4) No major added weight for any of the armor. I'm talking about tube bumpers, cut and relocate the rear crossmember and pull the bumper up to the body. Do the same as applicable up front, and then factor in the winch mount (but keep a non-winch design if you plan to sell it ). Slider protection that mimimizes loss of clearance and doesn't add too much weight, maybe in exchange for the occasional ding, but no catastrophic damage allowed.

Then do the same thing for a 3" lift on 35's. Basically, take what OME does and improve on it. 33's are too small in those wheel wells on an OME lift.

Sound like a plan?

Nay

 

[Land Speeder]

This is awesome! Us Auburn-ites will have to come up and check the 80 out once you get a few custom mods, or even come and lend a hand on a Saturday as I'd love to check it out custom projects on this. I beat my 80 a little too much so it won't be a year or so until I start chopping things.

 

[TiredIronGRB]

Tiredirongb has an extensive thread on the landcruiser section of Pirate4x4. He swapped in those volvo portals in something like 4 weeks!

Not four weeks, four days,

 

[frankies off road]

Sounds like you are planning to offer parts or the whole thing for sale?

I'd like to see somebody put together this solution:

1) Keep the lift as low as possible for 36's/37's. I am thinking Slee 4" coils as a base, nothing more. We've seen 36's on these coils, but the flex is restricted (lowered bumpstops to protect the fenders at the top end of the up travel). Flares can be removed, cosmetic trimming allowed.

2) Balanced flex at all four corners using the full travel of an 11" to 12" travel shock. 4" of up travel, the rest down. I think that means relocated shock mounts. I'd agree it means at least a redesigned radius arm with limiting strap, 3-link, or you could do a four link. Gonna need swaybar disconnects. How much droop pulls the coils too far off the coil tower?

3) Suspension handles road and offroad equally. No "unloading" of the front end on rock climbs (a problem with radius arms with a lot of lift), no inherent suspension bind limiting droop, and no undue tendencies to flop on its side (a consideration when redesigning the front end). Swaybars connected onroad, disco'd offroad.

4) Clearance is optimized wherever possible - the overall clearance of the taller lift in critical areas without actually having that much lift and the issues that come with it. This could mean new axle and frame mounts to go with new heavy duty brackets and arms.

4) No major added weight for any of the armor. I'm talking about tube bumpers, cut and relocate the rear crossmember and pull the bumper up to the body. Do the same as applicable up front, and then factor in the winch mount (but keep a non-winch design if you plan to sell it ). Slider protection that mimimizes loss of clearance and doesn't add too much weight, maybe in exchange for the occasional ding, but no catastrophic damage allowed.

Then do the same thing for a 3" lift on 35's. Basically, take what OME does and improve on it. 33's are too small in those wheel wells on an OME lift.

Sound like a plan?

Nay

VERY IMPRESIVE !
If there is enogh intrest for quolity parts that work yes i will offer kits and parts for sale for the 80. I would even consider total dedication on such,,

you are correct the unloading of radius arm geometry is a big problem as well as the binding issue.I have always built suspension that work with balance front to rear and thats why our chassis and custom offroad builds do as well as they do.good suspension geometry threw the compleat suspension cycle is a must ,thats what makes some rigs do the flop on there side in even mild cambers.

I would like to see the front coil's capured for better controll and suspension feel.this may need to have custom wound springs in progresive stages to allow full droop,I have no issue using the trac bar in front and its realy a must have using a steering box.
New shock mount location is a must as you stated.

I will build the suspension in total thought for reproduction in mind for resale ,I wonder if we should keep this a bolt on kit or weld on,

the bolt on may be limited to full function of what we are after here,the weld on would be a full benfit suspension on and off road.

This may be a slow road to R@D the 80 suspension but i feel it will be worth it,the 80 seems to be built like a tank and i love it.


Keep the ideas and info of what we need comming I will be looking at a production suspension that does what we need,it may be a slow road but one I am willing to travel.


thanks,,,

F.FOUNATIN

 

[frankies off road]

This is awesome! Us Auburn-ites will have to come up and check the 80 out once you get a few custom mods, or even come and lend a hand on a Saturday as I'd love to check it out custom projects on this. I beat my 80 a little too much so it won't be a year or so until I start chopping things.

We here at frankies always have the door open for fellow wheelers and helpers

 

[Nay]

VERY IMPRESIVE !
If there is enogh intrest for quolity parts that work yes i will offer kits and parts for sale for the 80. I would even consider total dedication on such,,

you are correct the unloading of radius arm geometry is a big problem as well as the binding issue.I have always built suspension that work with balance front to rear and thats why our chassis and custom offroad builds do as well as they do.good suspension geometry threw the compleat suspension cycle is a must ,thats what makes some rigs do the flop on there side in even mild cambers.

I would like to see the front coil's capured for better controll and suspension feel.this may need to have custom wound springs in progresive stages to allow full droop,I have no issue using the trac bar in front and its realy a must have using a steering box.
New shock mount location is a must as you stated.

I will build the suspension in total thought for reproduction in mind for resale ,I wonder if we should keep this a bolt on kit or weld on,

the bolt on may be limited to full function of what we are after here,the weld on would be a full benfit suspension on and off road.

This may be a slow road to R@D the 80 suspension but i feel it will be worth it,the 80 seems to be built like a tank and i love it.


Keep the ideas and info of what we need comming I will be looking at a production suspension that does what we need,it may be a slow road but one I am willing to travel.


thanks,,,

F.FOUNATIN

I think you end up stuck between the mass marketability of bolt on solutions and the potential "best design" approach of a weld on solution. Most people don't want to cut and weld, at least not until they have found the limits of bolt on stuff and are serious enough to make permanent changes, so you are probably looking at a low volume product - the question is what that does to cost and your risk of making the design investment? And do people with fab skills just DIY once you prototype it? I'd like to see it, but it's your dime

To be honest, I think a kit that would sell, and perhaps fund the more radical kit, is not the crazy big stuff, but a 2.5" kit that doesn't get into driveline angle issues or anything else, but has suspension travel properly set to run 35's and runs stiffer coils than OME. There can be a tendency to leave the small lift market to OME, but they don't get it perfectly right when what you need is more than just a suspension upgrade and small lift.

OME designs around stock specs, which means you don't change anything but springs and shocks. No gearing, no cosmetic trimming, no driveline stuff, etc. And so you typically end up with smallish tires for the lift. You can run 33's on a 80 OME stock height suspension, and you can run 33's on 3" OME heavy (and they look tiny). Why? Because OME uses the same shock, mounted in the same place, on both lifts. All you are doing from a suspension travel perspective is shifting the up/down travel ratio.

People regularly report that moving from OME to a taller Slee lift improved road performance, so what are we missing in the simple spring/shock 2.5" kit that is the heart of the 80 series aftermarket? The challenge as I see it is not how to get extreme, but how to avoid having to get extreme and having to spend a significant amount of extra money (and probably experiencing a good deal of stress) just to get the look and functionality you are after.

Nay

 

[frankies off road]

I think you end up stuck between the mass marketability of bolt on solutions and the potential "best design" approach of a weld on solution. Most people don't want to cut and weld, at least not until they have found the limits of bolt on stuff and are serious enough to make permanent changes, so you are probably looking at a low volume product - the question is what that does to cost and your risk of making the design investment? And do people with fab skills just DIY once you prototype it? I'd like to see it, but it's your dime

To be honest, I think a kit that would sell, and perhaps fund the more radical kit, is not the crazy big stuff, but a 2.5" kit that doesn't get into driveline angle issues or anything else, but has suspension travel properly set to run 35's and runs stiffer coils than OME. There can be a tendency to leave the small lift market to OME, but they don't get it perfectly right when what you need is more than just a suspension upgrade and small lift.

OME designs around stock specs, which means you don't change anything but springs and shocks. No gearing, no cosmetic trimming, no driveline stuff, etc. And so you typically end up with smallish tires for the lift. You can run 33's on a 80 OME stock height suspension, and you can run 33's on 3" OME heavy (and they look tiny). Why? Because OME uses the same shock, mounted in the same place, on both lifts. All you are doing from a suspension travel perspective is shifting the up/down travel ratio.

People regularly report that moving from OME to a taller Slee lift improved road performance, so what are we missing in the simple spring/shock 2.5" kit that is the heart of the 80 series aftermarket? The challenge as I see it is not how to get extreme, but how to avoid having to get extreme and having to spend a significant amount of extra money (and probably experiencing a good deal of stress) just to get the look and functionality you are after.

Nay

Point taken

The issue with a 2.5" kit is that it leaves the rig nose low so a 2.5'' front kit and a 1.75 to 2'' rear kit would be level, the only way to level the truck with 2.5 rear would be going 3'' front and thats where the front shaft starts the vibes.am i correct on this nay ?

Are the factory spring rates to your liking or need to be stiffer? s

so we need something in the 3" front 2.5 rear with less up travel more down travel and 35" tire friendly that works.

sounds good nay. keep the input coming!


frankie,,,,

 

[TiredIronGRB]

I used the OME 2.5 front and rear but used the heavies in the front and medium in the rear to level it out.

 

[frankies off road]

I used the OME 2.5 front and rear but used the heavies in the front and medium in the rear to level it out.

how do you like that system ? how can it be improoved ?


frankie....

 

[ROCKCLMBR 7]

80 parts

Frankie,
I recently parted out 2 fj 80's a 93 and a 94. i have a whole storage room full of parts if you need anything. i have a set of stock wheels with some 315 Bfg muds on them and a set of custom allied rock a thons beadlocks with some 37" Bfg muds on them. i also have 2 complete interiors with spector off road camo waterproof seat covers, ome J springs and L shocks, a complete drivetrain, and a bunch of other shat to boot. If you need anything let me know if i don't have it i can get it for you as i have access to a ton of 80 parts suppliers. Is Ben Pleasants still working for you? Ben and i went to high school together and i gained alot of my cruiser knowledge from him. He is a very talented guy who should be able to help you build one hell of an awesome 80.
Later,
Matt