It has been almost 4 years, I'm still butt hurt I didn't buy For Sale - 1973 FJ40 Frame off - The Gazoo (Rome, GA) from @Hugh Heifer
fj40 price guide?
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It has been almost 4 years, I'm still butt hurt I didn't buy For Sale - 1973 FJ40 Frame off - The Gazoo (Rome, GA) from @Hugh Heifer
Wow this thread just goes to show how times have changed!
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I think the price of the parts might have gone up even more in proportion to the vehicle price. I remember buying a mint condition complete hardtop for $400, and wondering if overpaid for it at the time. Now I see them selling for $1500-$2500 in similar condition.
I haven’t really beeen following prices on Fj40’s for a while, but I’m curious to see what the current price guide would look like today. Around my area I don’t think you can find anything for less than $5k, and that’s for a non runninng pile of parts, not even a complete vehicle
I haven’t really beeen following prices on Fj40’s for a while, but I’m curious to see what the current price guide would look like today. Around my area I don’t think you can find anything for less than $5k, and that’s for a non runninng pile of parts, not even a complete vehicle
A great place to look at fair market values is the sold listings on eBay. I check it occasionally for grins and find myself saying I would have paid that much for some of them. I recently had a guy sniffing around Miss Scarlet at the Leadville, Colorado car show. He understood the value of a 95%+ rust free FJ40 that was all original except for a 1997 paint job. He asked me if I had had any offers on it. I told him I had turned down a solid offer of $35K and he asked if $40K would buy it. We broke off negotiations at $43K. Even if I sold Miss Scarlet for that, I couldn't replace her at that price. Besides I don't want to go to divorce court!
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For reference, year, original paint or not, ect... all makes a difference. I paid off your chart for a 1967 fst with 78,000 original miles and original paint I purchased. Definitely A Lot MORE than your guide! It's all what you want. I have sold restored cruisers for what I paid for it. Anyone can have a restored one. In my opinion how many people have low mileage all original fj40's? To me it's worth more. Another, its worth half or less of what I paid.
Too bad I didn't hold on to it. I could have gotten 60K today!
I am a bit surprised the owner didn't find his way on here.
That is a perfect of the price inflation we've seen on FJ40s in the last few years. That was a lot of machine for the money!
The only problem with that Hagerty value guide is that it is pretty generic. It lists the same values regardless of year
Yes , I know. But when Hagerty does their gathering of data, they must understand year of vehicle really does not matter. Example, in auction , I have seen 1960s go for the same or higher values than late 70s and up to 1983. The FJ40 is actually quite different than other models as they really were the same vehicle over the life cycle. I know you being on mud would point out all the differences over the years, but FJ40 never changed its appearance like say , Camaro. So , the information given by Hagerty would pretty much be close on all FJ40 model years. In other words, these sell regardless of year. A concours 1963 would sell similar to a 1977. I do not believe any ONE year FJ40 was ever created like a 1963 split window corvette.
TCEd
SILVER Star
The problem with the Haggerty evaluation is we all think our vehicles are rated much higher then they think.
Problem is people think garabage is “fair” condition. I tried buying a non running 1973 that had usual rot, hadn’t been started in 5 years and had a poor reshoot of paint. He listed it for $5k, I show up and he’s pulling hargerty out telling me he changed his mind and wants $9k. Head ended up being cracked too. It’s still sitting at his house 6 months later.
Full disclosure, I work for The FJ Company. Adding my 2 cents in case it helps...
1. We think the market / pricing for 40's is completely out of whack (we buy abroad and in the US). This is largely as a result of the influx of "restored" 40's from all over the world that we are seeing since 2016. Combing through what is good and what is bad is really really difficult unless you're an expert. The feature set (roll bar, power steering, a/c, no a/c, etc) has become mostly irrelevant. As a result we've seen junk sell for pie in the sky and decent trucks go completely unnoticed. However, that dynamic has its limits. For example, it was refreshing NOT to see any 40's during Monterrey week in the top tier auctions. 2nd tier auctions did have a couple (which didn't sell) so the market is definitely feeling it - let's call it "40 fatigue". And we'll see how it goes in the classic car auction in Auburn this weekend https://insight.classic.com/search/?q=land cruiser but we're expecting a bloodbath.
2. Prices will drop further while that influx gets absorbed by the market. At that point, the economics of the import "opportunity" will stop making sense, the influx will slow to a trickle, and we'll hit bottom (circa 2019). From there the market will start inching back up (3 to 5 years) and things like OEM power steering, A/C, no A/C, gear ratios, etc, will begin to matter again.
3. While this goes against our own interests, if you have a "good" 40/43/45, my advice is to hang onto it. This market will NOT value whatever you own.
4. I don't think FJCO pricing is a good benchmark for this exercise (ie, coming up with a general price guide) per the comment above, simply because our vehicles are built to a custom set of specs. Even our Classic model is a major departure from factory specs. Furthermore, they are built using new mechanical components (90% +/-) and all interior/exterior accessories are new. All go through extensive engine/chassis/body modifications to improve and/or adapt one thing or the other. Yes we do have a back log and plenty of work, but it's a niche product relative to the overall 40 series market.
5. Conclusion: let's come up with a price guide when the market settles.
Juan
1. We think the market / pricing for 40's is completely out of whack (we buy abroad and in the US). This is largely as a result of the influx of "restored" 40's from all over the world that we are seeing since 2016. Combing through what is good and what is bad is really really difficult unless you're an expert. The feature set (roll bar, power steering, a/c, no a/c, etc) has become mostly irrelevant. As a result we've seen junk sell for pie in the sky and decent trucks go completely unnoticed. However, that dynamic has its limits. For example, it was refreshing NOT to see any 40's during Monterrey week in the top tier auctions. 2nd tier auctions did have a couple (which didn't sell) so the market is definitely feeling it - let's call it "40 fatigue". And we'll see how it goes in the classic car auction in Auburn this weekend https://insight.classic.com/search/?q=land cruiser but we're expecting a bloodbath.
2. Prices will drop further while that influx gets absorbed by the market. At that point, the economics of the import "opportunity" will stop making sense, the influx will slow to a trickle, and we'll hit bottom (circa 2019). From there the market will start inching back up (3 to 5 years) and things like OEM power steering, A/C, no A/C, gear ratios, etc, will begin to matter again.
3. While this goes against our own interests, if you have a "good" 40/43/45, my advice is to hang onto it. This market will NOT value whatever you own.
4. I don't think FJCO pricing is a good benchmark for this exercise (ie, coming up with a general price guide) per the comment above, simply because our vehicles are built to a custom set of specs. Even our Classic model is a major departure from factory specs. Furthermore, they are built using new mechanical components (90% +/-) and all interior/exterior accessories are new. All go through extensive engine/chassis/body modifications to improve and/or adapt one thing or the other. Yes we do have a back log and plenty of work, but it's a niche product relative to the overall 40 series market.
5. Conclusion: let's come up with a price guide when the market settles.
Juan
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Thanks Juan for the input I respect your knowledge and experience. Full disclosure is I am involved in a very extensive nut and bolt restoration with many upgrades, improvements, new interior, OEM original parts, and an extremely high quality body and paint. I have kept a meticulous record of what has been spent and the amount is sobering. I also have a 12/68 survivor 40 that has been mechanically restored to a good level of quality. I have been involved in the LC world, buying, selling, swapping and looking for about 6 years. I am confident that both trucks will support my investment of time and money and will continue to appreciate as time goes on.
The reason I mentioned your company and suggested the exercise is I am not sure that a lot of people on and off this forum understand the cost to properly totally nut and bolt restore one of these vehicles. While most would go through the exercise and suffer from some initial sticker shock, I can vouch that you can't get to there from a base truck for much less unless you do a lot of it yourself which will decrease some of the investment. But time is money even if you love doing it, the quality of the work definitely determines the value of the resulting completed vehicle. I think looking at what you do is a valid exercise and the demand and your backlog support my opinion. Further, most of the improvements you offer are what we all do to make the trucks perform on a modern highway and still be the best in the world off-road.
And I think your product and business plan are solid in terms of demand and customer satisfaction.
Further, I agree the 40 Market may have some adjustments and sometimes a dip, but overall the demand and attention that these trucks are bringing is increasing and I believe will continue to increase. These trucks will bring the crowd and most people love a nice 40 and can see themselves going out into the wilderness and enjoying the trip. Overlanding, trail running, camping, and travelling are all becoming the now thing to an upcoming generation. Lots of the expensive muscle cars to the younger crowd look like an overdressed hooker at a birthday party. Witness the price slide that nice 60s and 70s vehicles are experiencing and I have never seen so many for sale signs at the cruise ins. Lots' of Rubicon jeeps are bringing 50K and a well built 40 can be a status symbol to some.
In conclusion, they are not making any more 40s, the nice original ones are becoming rare, the parts are getting more expensive and in some cases unavailable, and mechanical labor rates have never been higher. My advice to anyone out there who wants a 40, buy the most solid 40 you can afford, know what you are buying, do it for the enjoyment and if you make money consider yourself fortunate, above all jump into the journey.
The reason I mentioned your company and suggested the exercise is I am not sure that a lot of people on and off this forum understand the cost to properly totally nut and bolt restore one of these vehicles. While most would go through the exercise and suffer from some initial sticker shock, I can vouch that you can't get to there from a base truck for much less unless you do a lot of it yourself which will decrease some of the investment. But time is money even if you love doing it, the quality of the work definitely determines the value of the resulting completed vehicle. I think looking at what you do is a valid exercise and the demand and your backlog support my opinion. Further, most of the improvements you offer are what we all do to make the trucks perform on a modern highway and still be the best in the world off-road.
And I think your product and business plan are solid in terms of demand and customer satisfaction.
Further, I agree the 40 Market may have some adjustments and sometimes a dip, but overall the demand and attention that these trucks are bringing is increasing and I believe will continue to increase. These trucks will bring the crowd and most people love a nice 40 and can see themselves going out into the wilderness and enjoying the trip. Overlanding, trail running, camping, and travelling are all becoming the now thing to an upcoming generation. Lots of the expensive muscle cars to the younger crowd look like an overdressed hooker at a birthday party. Witness the price slide that nice 60s and 70s vehicles are experiencing and I have never seen so many for sale signs at the cruise ins. Lots' of Rubicon jeeps are bringing 50K and a well built 40 can be a status symbol to some.
In conclusion, they are not making any more 40s, the nice original ones are becoming rare, the parts are getting more expensive and in some cases unavailable, and mechanical labor rates have never been higher. My advice to anyone out there who wants a 40, buy the most solid 40 you can afford, know what you are buying, do it for the enjoyment and if you make money consider yourself fortunate, above all jump into the journey.
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Full disclosure, I work for The FJ Company. Adding my 2 cents in case it helps...
1. We think the market / pricing for 40's is completely out of whack (we buy abroad and in the US). This is largely as a result of the influx of "restored" 40's from all over the world that we are seeing since 2016. Combing through what is good and what is bad is really really difficult unless you're an expert. The feature set (roll bar, power steering, a/c, no a/c, etc) has become mostly irrelevant. As a result we've seen junk sell for pie in the sky and decent trucks go completely unnoticed. However, that dynamic has its limits. For example, it was refreshing NOT to see any 40's during Monterrey week in the top tier auctions. 2nd tier auctions did have a couple (which didn't sell) so the market is definitely feeling it - let's call it "40 fatigue". And we'll see how it goes in the classic car auction in Auburn this weekend https://insight.classic.com/search/?q=land cruiser but we're expecting a bloodbath.
2. Prices will drop further while that influx gets absorbed by the market. At that point, the economics of the import "opportunity" will stop making sense, the influx will slow to a trickle, and we'll hit bottom (circa 2019). From there the market will start inching back up (3 to 5 years) and things like OEM power steering, A/C, no A/C, gear ratios, etc, will begin to matter again.
3. While this goes against our own interests, if you have a "good" 40/43/45, my advice is to hang onto it. This market will NOT value whatever you own.
4. I don't think FJCO pricing is a good benchmark for this exercise (ie, coming up with a general price guide) per the comment above, simply because our vehicles are built to a custom set of specs. Even our Classic model is a major departure from factory specs. Furthermore, they are built using new mechanical components (90% +/-) and all interior/exterior accessories are new. All go through extensive engine/chassis/body modifications to improve and/or adapt one thing or the other. Yes we do have a back log and plenty of work, but it's a niche product relative to the overall 40 series market.
5. Conclusion: let's come up with a price guide when the market settles.
Juan
Just how many FJ40's are coming from abroad ? I still believe USA spec. vehicles will command a status different than from abroad.
There seem to be quite a few recently. I don't have any hard numbers but I had an opportunity to see one up close a person had just bought on ebay, it was a shiny resale red 1974, not a FST but had a soft top on it, had drums and manual steering. Looked ok and the guy paid just shy of 40k for it. He was happy and was in love, actually it had some flaws but it made him happy so I said nothing negative. The FJ company is in an entirely different class of vehicle and truly rebuild and restore to a pretty high level. There are some horror stories on Columbian and South American trucks coming into the US and the buyer has to be careful.
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I know a lot of people ask what the value of a particular FJ40 is that they're looking at, or looking to sell, so would it be possible to come up with a very rough price guide just to give an idea what a particular cruiser is worth? I know there are just way too many variables to really give a price on any particular vehicle, what I was thinking was more of a general scale where people would at least have a ballpark figure on the value. For example
<$1k
Parts car, not salvagable, missing engine, drivetrain, etc.
$1k-$2k
Possibly running or not, rusted or rotted out body tub, frame damage, good candidate for a trail rig only or a complete frame off restoration
$2k-$4k
Running, rough condition, needs a some work, parts missing.
$4k-$7k
Minor rust, driveable condition, not missing any major parts
$7k-10K
Good condition, all original, daily driver condition, zero to no rust
$10k - $15K
Frame off restoration, absolutely no rust, original paint, kept in a garage and sung to sleep every night, etc...
>$15K -
Showroom quality restoration, better than new
I'm still new at all this, so all these are just random guesses, so my numbers could be completely off. Excluding killer deals or total ripoffs, does it seem somewhat reasonable? Keep in mind there are prices people want to pay for a cruiser, and there are prices that people would like to sell theirs for, I'm hoping to give a realistic range somewhere in between.
Also, since there are so many different options and certain models and years may be more desirable, maybe some allowance could be made. For example
1976?-1981? = + $???
V8 Conversion = +/- ???
Power steering = +????
Missing Hardtop = -1k??
Flipped bezel = -1k?
Diesel engine = +????
What does everyone else think? Are the numbers fairly reasonable? Is that what you would expect to pay for a cruiser, or expect to sell one for that much?
I looked for 7 years before I bought my first FJ40. I easily looked at a few hundred over the years and I had some criteria my purchase needed to meet so it did make finding the right one take a bit longer. I wanted a rig that had spent its entire life in the desert regions where little to no humidity was. Had gone through a partial restoration of major parts, was as close to original in all aspects, and had little to no rust. That's why it took me 7 years to find one but sure enough I did.
Here is what I found as a general price range over 7 years of looking:
<$1K
Parts car, not salvageable, missing engine, drive train, etc.
$2-$5K
Possibly running or not, rusted or rotted out body tub, frame damage, good candidate for a trail rig only or a complete frame off restoration
$5k-$7K
Running, rough condition, needs a some work, parts missing.
$8k -$12K
Minor rust, derivable condition, not missing any major parts
$13K - $30K
Pretty Good to great condition, all original, daily driver condition, zero to minor surface rust
$40K- $60K
Frame off restoration, absolutely no rust, original paint, kept in a garage and sung to sleep every night, etc...
$60K - $120K
Show room quality resto - better than new
This is a much more realistic scale. Look at some of the build threads on this forum. There are guys here who have $80K just in parts and labor on their builds just to break even.
Shoot, I just learned the other day there are restored original FJ40 Steering wheels being sold for $2,500...just for the steering wheel.
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