Fixed my sticky gas pedal, sort of...

[SHIfTHEAD]

I got this truck a few weeks ago and absolutely love it. I replaced an 05 Honda Pilot, which was a good vehicle, but not in the same class. However the Pilot had one thing going for it, simplicity. The LX is a much more complex machine and therefore requires more maintenance in the end. One of the first things I noted was a sticky pedal, and this only applies to drive by wire rigs, I think.

Toyota says not to lube this mechanism but doesn't explain why. I thought it was to prevent contamination in the sensor but I think the real reason is how the peddle itself is constructed. If you look at the peddle you will see a large spring wound around a black barrel that the arm of the peddle runs through. It is this barrel that is the source of the stickiness. It's not simply a plastic bearing, rather it has an internal mechanism that acts as a friction brake to impede rapid changes in the peddle. I don't think it's for the sake of the throttle mechanism rather it's for the driving experience.

I removed the mechanism thinking it just needed a good cleaning and fresh grease in the specific areas. What I found was this this brakingechanism is worn and doesn't brake smoothly anymore.

In the end I simply removed one bolt that affixes the barrel to the peddle assembly which allows the barrel to rotate as the peddle rotates. The result is no more sticking peddle, however much of the resistance is now gone so the peddle is very light now. So I could see if you were in a situation where you are being jostled about your foot would probably be bouncing around too. In that situation you'd probably be giving throttle inputs that you didn't intend to give.

Mind you, it's not like there is NO resistance, just dramatically less than with the barrel affixed to the mechanism.

For those looking to do this, I'd probably recommend just getting a new peddle assembly which is what I will do now. Toyota sells just the peddle without the sensor for about $50 I think. If you are going to do this job just replace it because it's a royal PITA to get that damn thing off and back on.

 

[CloudCity]

Update: I found this post (below) that seems to confirm that replacing the pedal assembly is the way to go. I bought one at a good discount from a local Toyota dealer and will update once I've done the job sometime in the next day or two... once this 100-degree weather subsides.

Stiff / Sticky accelerator pedal (2004)

Original post:
Reviving this thread because the rotating section of the accelerator pedal assembly on my '04 LX 470 is sticky or notchy and the dealer suggested replacing the unit as a whole for around $900, $650 for the part and $250 in labor. I had a couple of questions... my technician said the pedal and sensor are one unit in the LX 470, and I assume its the same unit the LC uses, but above it says the pedal can be bought for $50 and I was curious if anyone has replaced just the pedal and did it correct the issue? How much have you paid for the assembly and sensor?
If I can get a new pedal for $50 or so I'd feel much better about that then trying to remove bolts that seem necessary to the safe operation of the vehicle... no offense to the OP for his workaround, just not for me.

Any special tricks to removing the pedal, just pull the sensor plug and two bolts and you're done or is there any of that, "install at a 1/4 turn, press in and turn clockwise" type stuff like when you're doing the APPS? Can't figure out why my dealer asked $250 to replace if it's just a couple of bolts and a connector.
Any and all advice appreciated.

 

[SHIfTHEAD]

I'd like to know the answer to this as well . I have the same issue and found the pedal assembly mentioned above, but didn't take the chance and order it. Instead I removed the two or three nuts holding the pedal assembly to the firewall, unplugged the sensor and pulled it out . I found the fulcrum is a plastic barrel assembly that is designed to add a constant amount of friction throughout the entire sweep of the pedal. It's this piece that is sticking. I removed the small screw that holds the outer ring of this piece to the assembly, essentially turning it into just a pivot point, as it can no longer add any friction . There is a second spring in the assembly to return the pedal, but it's pretty weak . I've been driving it this way for a couple years now. The downside is that there is very little feedback through your foot because the spring is so light . But it will work this way. Still, I'd like it fixed right since driving on rough surfaces can cause your foot to move and surge the throttle .

 

[gspmojo11]

I am in the same boat. I am kind of used to it now, but am still be curious what a better fix would be. This is where I left off on this last time: Stiff / Sticky accelerator pedal (2004)

 

[CloudCity]

Checking back in as promised...
The brand new accelerator pedal assembly (with sensor attached) 100% cured my sticky pedal! She is buttery smooth just as you would expect a Lexus or Land Cruiser to behave. In my case, once the pedal was removed, I could exercise it to full extension and see that the white nylon glide or nib at the very top of the pedal arm is what was causing my issue. It slides in a small boxed section that's open on one side and over time it seems to simply wear down a bit or perhaps gum up with crud. I put a dab of plastic-specific grease there and it helped a bit so I think if one were to go in and really clean that area up and add something like Lubrimoly you might be able to get away without buying a new pedal, but I feel it would probably start to stick again over time. Note that there is a TSB for this pedal assembly specifically mentioning that you are not to lubricate it. The reason I was told is so no lubricant gets into the sensor itself.

Some tips for when you do this job:
1) It probably would have helped if I lowered the vehicle before starting this job. Also, I found that sitting on the running board, facing forward, and using my right hand to reach the top bolt, and working the ratchet with my left hand was the best method without undue twisting and bending. (If you know someone with small hands buy them lunch or a case of beer to help, you will be grateful. I can't even imagine you guys with bear-hands being able to even do this job.)
2) Unplug the connector first. This allows a bit more room to reach the bolts and also prevents you from damaging it as it's very tight up there. Just push the left side of the clip at the top to release and gently push upwards and off with your fingers while keeping that clip depressed.
3) There are two 10mm cadmium-plated bolts that need to come out, one at the bottom and one at the very top left at the back of the bracket. They appear interchangeable.
4) You will need both a short and long socket extension with a knuckle in the middle to reach the top bolt. Attach the longer extension to the tool, then attach the knuckle, then the shorter extension, then the 10mm socket.
5) I found that things worked best if I first held the bolt between my fingers and reached my hand up into the (small) cavity by the top of the bracket and pushed the top bolt into place by hand, then feeding the socket up into my hand and placing it on the bolt, making sure it was fully seated. Then I simply applied pressure to keep the socket on the bolt head while turning the handle. It only took a bit of force to break it free initially then came out easy. Go ahead and back this one out all the way with the socket. Don't let it fall behind the carpet.
6) Removing the bottom bolt is pretty straight forward. The pedal will come right out now.
7) On my bottom bolt hole, there was a piece of black sound-deadening material that was interfering with putting that bolt back in, so make sure there's nothing that will get caught in your threads, you don't want to cross thread this area.
8) Speaking of cross-threading, be sure to put each bolt in by hand first to make sure it's seated, I always use the spark plug trick of turning it backwards (counter-clockwise) slightly until it "clicks" then you know the threads are seated and you can turn clockwise to tighten. I just want to emphasize this to avoid a much bigger headache of having to tap this out.
9) Finally, I noticed that there is room for adjusting the two bolts that attach the sensor to the pedal bracket. My original pedal was centered in this space while my new one was rotated fully to one side, so I do believe the sensor is rotated one way or the other at the factory as a calibration of some sort, so this might explain why the pedal assembly comes with the sensor attached. Don't unscrew these two small nuts on the sensor or attempt to adjust it.

As stated previously, my Toyota dealer asked $650 for the part and $250 for labor. I'm guessing they remove more items for better access at that cost but who knows. Lexus wanted $751 for the part alone. I ended up calling another Toyota dealer in the area who offered it at $609 and then added a 15% discount so I got it for $518. Online parts shops have it for even less. It's sometimes called a "Pedal Travel Sensor" in dealer catalogs and other times called "Pedal Assy. Accelera(tor)" on the label attached to bag the unit came in.

The pedal assembly part number is 78010-60090 (for my '04 LX anyway, assume same for LC but dealer can confirm by your VIN), earlier models don't use this type of assembly with the sensor if they have a throttle cable attached. The part is non-returnable at dealers due to cost and special order nature so be sure this is what you need.

 

[Spike555]

Mine does the same thing, but only when the temp is just right. For that price I'll live with it for now.

 

[SHIfTHEAD]

Checking back in as promised...
The brand new accelerator pedal assembly (with sensor attached) 100% cured my sticky pedal! She is buttery smooth just as you would expect a Lexus or Land Cruiser to behave. In my case, once the pedal was removed, I could exercise it to full extension and see that the white nylon glide or nib at the very top of the pedal arm is what was causing my issue. It slides in a small boxed section that's open on one side and over time it seems to simply wear down a bit or perhaps gum up with crud. I put a dab of plastic-specific grease there and it helped a bit so I think if one were to go in and really clean that area up and add something like Lubrimoly you might be able to get away without buying a new pedal, but I feel it would probably start to stick again over time. Note that there is a TSB for this pedal assembly specifically mentioning that you are not to lubricate it. The reason I was told is so no lubricant gets into the sensor itself.

Some tips for when you do this job:
1) It probably would have helped if I lowered the vehicle before starting this job. Also, I found that sitting on the running board, facing forward, and using my right hand to reach the top bolt, and working the ratchet with my left hand was the best method without undue twisting and bending. (If you know someone with small hands buy them lunch or a case of beer to help, you will be grateful. I can't even imagine you guys with bear-hands being able to even do this job.)
2) Unplug the connector first. This allows a bit more room to reach the bolts and also prevents you from damaging it as it's very tight up there. Just push the left side of the clip at the top to release and gently push upwards and off with your fingers while keeping that clip depressed.
3) There are two 10mm cadmium-plated bolts that need to come out, one at the bottom and one at the very top left at the back of the bracket. They appear interchangeable.
4) You will need both a short and long socket extension with a knuckle in the middle to reach the top bolt. Attach the longer extension to the tool, then attach the knuckle, then the shorter extension, then the 10mm socket.
5) I found that things worked best if I first held the bolt between my fingers and reached my hand up into the (small) cavity by the top of the bracket and pushed the top bolt into place by hand, then feeding the socket up into my hand and placing it on the bolt, making sure it was fully seated. Then I simply applied pressure to keep the socket on the bolt head while turning the handle. It only took a bit of force to break it free initially then came out easy. Go ahead and back this one out all the way with the socket. Don't let it fall behind the carpet.
6) Removing the bottom bolt is pretty straight forward. The pedal will come right out now.
7) On my bottom bolt hole, there was a piece of black sound-deadening material that was interfering with putting that bolt back in, so make sure there's nothing that will get caught in your threads, you don't want to cross thread this area.
8) Speaking of cross-threading, be sure to put each bolt in by hand first to make sure it's seated, I always use the spark plug trick of turning it backwards (counter-clockwise) slightly until it "clicks" then you know the threads are seated and you can turn clockwise to tighten. I just want to emphasize this to avoid a much bigger headache of having to tap this out.
9) Finally, I noticed that there is room for adjusting the two bolts that attach the sensor to the pedal bracket. My original pedal was centered in this space while my new one was rotated fully to one side, so I do believe the sensor is rotated one way or the other at the factory as a calibration of some sort, so this might explain why the pedal assembly comes with the sensor attached. Don't unscrew these two small nuts on the sensor or attempt to adjust it.

As stated previously, my Toyota dealer asked $650 for the part and $250 for labor. I'm guessing they remove more items for better access at that cost but who knows. Lexus wanted $751 for the part alone. I ended up calling another Toyota dealer in the area who offered it at $609 and then added a 15% discount so I got it for $518. Online parts shops have it for even less. It's sometimes called a "Pedal Travel Sensor" in dealer catalogs and other times called "Pedal Assy. Accelera(tor)" on the label attached to bag the unit came in.

The pedal assembly part number is 78010-60090 (for my '04 LX anyway, assume same for LC but dealer can confirm by your VIN), earlier models don't use this type of assembly with the sensor if they have a throttle cable attached. The part is non-returnable at dealers due to cost and special order nature so be sure this is what you need.

Any chance you can post a pic of your old one? I'd like to confirm the part is the same as on my 05 LX.

 

[CloudCity]

Mine does the same thing, but only when the temp is just right. For that price I'll live with it for now.

It reminded me of my dad's old Dodge Ram pickup in a way so I think if the rig I bought was a little more "broken in" I would have left it as part of it's character, the dealer confirmed it wasn't a safety issue, so I see nothing wrong with that technique! My cabin is so quiet that I could hear it creaking! lol

Any chance you can post a pic of your old one? I'd like to confirm the part is the same as on my 05 LX.

I will do that in the tomorrow since it's presently in the garage. I'll see if there are any numbers stamped on it. I haven't even tried yet but I'm curious if you can just twist that little white nib around so it has a new facing surface, good for the next 250,000 miles! I'll try that and let you know.

 

[CloudCity]

Here's the 5-max total photos I'm allowed. If you need anything more specific let me know.
You cannot rotate the white plastic nib to a new area as it is keyed in to that position.

 

[Spike555]

So if I understand correctly, simply lubing the plastic thing inside the thingy will not make it smooth again?

 

[CloudCity]

From my experience it did not. I may try really cleaning the plastic bit and using a different type of lube to see if it makes any difference, but from what I’ve encountered the pressure on that piece is so great that lube wears away quickly and you’re back to that same interface of materials again. It seems like a very small “trough” was worn into which would mean more surface area is contacting and probably what causes the friction.

So if I understand correctly, simply lubing the plastic thing inside the thingy will not make it smooth again?