FIPG... Can I use what I have? (1 Viewer)

[CharlieS]

Is FIPG (form in place gasket) just a general class of materials like saying Permatex, where there are different kinds of FIPG for different purposes?

Why I'm asking... I'm doing my valve cover gasket, and need FIPG for the half moon seals ("semi-circular plug"). I figured I was all set because I have a new tube of FIPG that I bought when I regeared my 200 and never opened.

Well, when I look at the FSM for the '94 the half moon seals call for seal packing FIPG part number 08826-00080 or equivalent. I grabbed the box of FIPG I have and it is part number 0295-01281 "Seal Packing 1281 FIPG".

I have no way of knowing if this is equivalent, a superceeded part number, or is incompatible with this use.

The FIPG I have was bought for a diff, so needed to be gear oil resistant and seal a metal to metal connection. (side note: I actually ended up using Permatex grey because the FIPG took so long to get) I'm thinking it should resist oil and seal the metal to metal head to valve cover fine.

I don't want to have to redo this job immediately because I made a stupid shortcut thought...

Could more experienced people share their perspective?

PS. Tech contribution - Knipex pliers are perfect for removing half moon seals.

 

[CharlieS]

Googled the following Tech Tip up. Looks like what I have is the orange stuff, and this calls for the black stuff. There seems to be a ThreeBond cross reference part too.

 

[CharlieS]

Although not on this tech bulletin, it seems like Permatex Black Oil Resistant RN Silicone p/n 82080 (large container) and 82180 (smaller tube) might also do the trick? And maybe Loctite 598 High Performance Black Silicone Oil Resistant?

Or just buy the Toyota stuff (now p/n 00295-01281) a huge markup from my local Toyota shop (full retail)...

 

[Fj80oregon]

FIPG 103 is for half moons, oil pans and timing cover. FIPG 1281 is for t-case and transmission pan.

 

[CharlieS]

Thank you.

 

[Fj80oregon]

Camshaft housing=half moons!

 

[Malleus]

If it's for the cam plugs, yes, it'll probably be OK. And I use ThreeBond; The Toyota FIPG is too expensive when I use so little of it at a time, it sits on the shelf for years before I need it again, etc. etc.

To answer your question, yes, there are differences. Engine oil flows better than gear oil so it'll leak when gear oil won't. Engine parts are also hotter, by in large, than drivetrain parts, so the sealant need to have a higher resistance to heat. I wouldn't be afraid to use engine sealant on drivetrain parts. I would not do it the other way around. Having said that, if I was buying for a job, I'd get what Toyota recommended. If I was in a pinch, I'd use what I had.

It's entirely possible that Toyota's purchases drive their recommendations, and they use less of one than the other, so the hundreds of gallons of what they use results in a cost for them you'll never see.

 

[CharlieS]

Not going to risk a failure over $20. I just bought the Toyota stuff.

 

[bhsdriller]

Lol guys on here crack me up sometimes it's just FIPG

Would probably spend more for Toyota brand gas if they sold it

 

[CharlieS]

Lol guys on here crack me up sometimes it's just FIPG

Would probably spend more for Toyota brand gas if they sold it

My justification is that my time is more valuable to me than what it would cost to redo this job over a corner cut on the "right" sealant. If I had planned ahead better, I would have ordered the ThreeBond, but I made the mistake of assuming all FIPG was the same. Lesson learned. I couldn't find the ThreeBond equivalent in my relatively rural area...

 

[Malleus]

FWIW:
Toyota 103, for engine oil service

Toyota 1281, for gear oil service:

Side by side comparison (again, this is from the Three bond company, not Toyota)

They're both heat & oil resistant silicone based RTV. So, from a product perspective, they are interchangeable. Only Toyota knows why they use both. The color differenecs are to make it easy for maintenace personnel to load the proper stuff. The label comes off a 55 gallon barrel, no one's going to open it to find out what's in it; they just squirt it in a trash can and move on with life.

Oddly, TB1207B is listed for coolant, while Toyota lists a separate coolant sealant. Makes me think they got a bulk order deal from their OEM.

There's also a debate on whether to use gaskets or RTV. OEMs have found that bulk RTV is cheaper to buy, but more problematic to use; they have had to resort to specially built dispeners for the RTV because their assmebly line personnel couldn't be bothered to use it correctly. Some went back to gaskets for this reason, some lected to buy the machines, which led to more machines and fewer personnel. So the assembly line people got what they wanted in the end - less work.

 

[CharlieS]

Wow, what a wealth of great information. Thank you!

 

[Malleus]

It seems that TB1207B was designed for engine oil sealing use and TB1281 was designed for gear oil/ATF sealing use (TB1281 is listed in the transmission service manual, although Toyota has a cork gasket listed for non-USDM production - go figure), according to their datasheets, but both are listed as Gasketing/Powertrain sealling in the application category. However, apart from TB1207B being Shore A30 (sort of rubber-bandy) and TB1281 being Shore A 60 (rubber ball hard), I can't tell the difference, from their published datasheets.

 

[mudgudgeon]

Would probably spend more for Toyota brand gas if they sold it

Don't tease us without giving us a part number! We need part numbers man!

 

[mudgudgeon]

I think more important is cleaning all old sealant residue away so whatever engine oil rated RTV / FIPG you use has clean surfaces to bond too.

Most places Toyota uses FIPG they incorporate grooves and recesses so the seal is a bead, locked in place, not just a thin layer smeared between flat surfaces.

Make sure the grooves and recesses are spotlessly clean

 

[CharlieS]

I think more important is cleaning all old sealant residue away so whatever engine oil rated RTV / FIPG you use has clean surfaces to bond too.

Most places Toyota uses FIPG they incorporate grooves and recesses so the seal is a bead, locked in place, not just a thin layer smeared between flat surfaces.

Make sure the grooves and recesses are spotlessly clean

Yes!

First pass, will clean up further and degrease before reinstalling.

 

[LandLocked93]

Interesting.
That said I use FIPG103 for just about everything from it's actual inteneded purpose to just a simple glue to reattach a body molding part on a Honda.
Had no idea there were 'limits'.

Now where can we get this Toyota gas of which you speak?