Finally, diesel cheap again.

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Granted I have not done a full analysis of this and don't have some fancy numbers to throw out there but to quote the energy website you mentioned:
"Gasoline prices can be difficult to understand because they do not behave like the prices of many of the other goods that consumers buy every week. Gasoline is a commodity, like gold or pork bellies, and its wholesale price reacts to a number of factors. The most obvious ones are supply and demand. When there is more demand (in summer when everyone drives more), there is more pressure to ensure that there is sufficient supply to meet demand, so the price goes up. When there is less demand, such as during the winter months, supply and demand are better balanced and prices are generally lower.

Over the longer term, demand has been growing each year as drivers choose bigger and bigger vehicles and drive greater distances. This puts pressure on the supply and can also lead to higher prices."
and if we look at the prices of diesel in comparison to gas GAS, DIESEL, one would assume that the demand for diesel has been far greater in 2008 then any year prior. Strangely I have not seen an increase in consumption of diesel, we have the similar amount of diesel burning vehicles in 07, as in 08 and the beginning of 09, yet we have a drastic increase in the cost of diesel at the pumps in 08 in comparison to 07. What's even stranger is how we are looking at 09 and the prices are lower then they were in 08, which has nothing to do with supply and demand, nor as much with the economy, since everything else seems to be going up in price (with the exception of real estate). It's political, and it's corporate greed that affects it. The price was what it was in the past couple of years due to corporations (with government backing) driving it up because they thought the market could bare it, it wasn't about the cost of production going up or the supplies running low. Now people are having more financial troubles and the corporations knew they had to lower the price to reflect what their markets could afford. The cost of production is still the same and as for the supply it hasn't magically increased. The more the corporations make, the more does the government. I love those stickers at the pumps that show the pie chart of the cost of fuel, in the past 4 years the profit and taxes percent of that chart have gone up, :hhmm: interesting. As for our taxes, on average we seem to have between 34%-38% of tax on fuel (less on the higher grades) which is still the highest in BC (maybe due to the amount of the population), but strangely, with the exception of Newfoundland and Labrador, The Northwest Territories, and Yukon we have the highest cost in fuels. I find it hard to believe that BC is as remote as those other areas and the cost of delivery is as high, or maybe it's the excellent level of service we receive that the others don't get that makes the fuel more expensive here.
 
I find it hard to believe that BC is as remote as those other areas and the cost of delivery is as high, or maybe it's the excellent level of service we receive that the others don't get that makes the fuel more expensive here.
Chevron in Canada - Refining

Fuel in BC costs more because BC has some of the highest fuel taxes in Canada, and it is one of the "Greenest" provinces, those two usually go together as higher taxes are seen as a way to discourage excessive use. The same is done with tobacco and alcohol.
 
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Since summer diesel fuel and home heating oil is essentially the same thing other than a bit of dye why is the price so different? Surely the dye going into home heating oil isn't that expensive. I tend to think the taxes quoted in the chart is the local taxes as opposed to ALL the taxes which seems to be borne out in the chart you have provided.

Of course we are all welcome to believe or not believe the government as you wish. I tend to be skeptical of anything a government beurocrat or website is telling me. If you wish to believe that diesel actually costs the oil companies more to produce I'm not going to argue with you. I know when I look in the papers the cost for diesel before ANY taxes is ALWAYS significantly lower than gasoline simply because it's a less refined fuel.

That's not the case in the Canada I live in.
Energy Sector: Energy Sources

...so cut the BS and make statements based on facts.

This might be a better place to look for the TRUE cost of gasoline vs. diesel (or heating oil). http://www.nymex.com/index.aspx
 
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Since summer diesel fuel and home heating oil is essentially the same thing other than a bit of dye why is the price so different?
tax......

I tend to think the taxes quoted in the chart is the local taxes as opposed to ALL the taxes which seems to be borne out in the chart you have provided.
got any proof for that belief?

The bulk fuel distributor I buy from disaggregates the taxes and the total of all agrees with the amount in chart at the link I provided. I suppose it's possible that they only got my location correct, but it's highly unlikely.

It's easy to have all sorts of beliefs if one chooses to ignore facts.
 
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That's not the case in the Canada I live in.
Energy Sector: Energy Sources

...so cut the BS and make statements based on facts.

I too always believe everything the government says...even government websites.

Seriously though I don't think we live in a perfect country, but it is pretty darn good. We have been blessed with a lot of wealth in Canada. The majority of people in this world don't even have savings, cars, let alone mortgage payments.

Yes the price of fuel could be better, but a lot of things could be worse. Don't take for granted what you have.

Sermon done.:D
 
We're very fortunate in Canada. We have a lot of freedom, a lot of unspoiled wilderness, and a lot of good honest people. For the most part I consider my tax dollars well spent, and I don't mind paying taxes for the benefits of living in Canada those taxes provide. In the midst of a global economic meltdown we have one of the healthiest economies. Given the rather good road system we have I think our fuel cost, including taxes, is quite reasonable. Anyone who does not like it here is free to leave.
 
tax......

got any proof for that belief?

The bulk fuel distributor I buy from disaggregates the taxes and the total of all agrees with the amount in chart at the link I provided. I suppose it's possible that they only got my location correct, but it's highly unlikely.

It's easy to have all sorts of beliefs if one chooses to ignore facts.

John, hows this for facts:

Based on your website and your statements above lets look at Vancouver, B.C. (remember the site says "Prices include taxes")

Diesel at 83.5 and that includes 31.7 in taxes making the "before tax" price 51.8

Heating oil at 72 which includes 6.1 in taxes making the "before tax" price 65.9

(these prices are current as of my post, I'm sure they will change from day to day)

Why is one 51.8 before taxes and the other 65.9 if they are essentially the SAME PRODUCT as we both seem to agree on? Are we now going to say that the dye in heating oil is worth 14.1 c/ltr?


Now look at nymex.com, a commodities trading website, no taxes included gasoline 1.26 and heating oil 1.18 (numbers will vary as it is a trading site). Let's for a moment assume that the difference in the base product on the Energy Canada website is correct and doesn't include taxes. That would only make diesel that much LESS costly!! Think about it for a moment!


Face the FACTS, it's all about taxes!! Remeber there are local taxes, provincial taxes and federal taxes. I doubt ALL are included in the website you've quoted. Some of the differences will be attributable to transportation costs and other differences will be attributable to taxes NOT included in your website.

My contention is that diesel, the basic product, is cheaper than gasoline and the price rises above gasoline based solely on the tax structure of the various locales be it local, provincial/state and/or federal.

I'm not complaining about taxes, I like what we get for taxes in Canada too but my contention is FAIR taxation and that is not happening.
 
local taxes, provincial taxes and federal taxes. I doubt ALL are included in the website you've quoted.
Well, in MY jurisdiction the total of all the taxes agrees with the data at the Canadian Govt website. I have no idea what you're trying to prove by referring to a Cdn govt website as "your" website. You've obviously got some issues there to work out, have fun, peace out.
 
Dang, just when I was gonna go get some :popcorn:.

Banned! But not for this thread.

I was wondering why his name was fading away. Thought it was from holding the weight of the world on his shoulders. :D

So where is this entertaining thread of the other JG's kind words of wisdom?
 
Well, in MY jurisdiction the total of all the taxes agrees with the data at the Canadian Govt website. I have no idea what you're trying to prove by referring to a Cdn govt website as "your" website. You've obviously got some issues there to work out, have fun, peace out.

are you sure you got that right John?

:grinpimp: :ban:
 
are you sure you got that right John?

:grinpimp: :ban:

Doubt if John Galt was his real name. John Galt is from Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged and is the symbol of her Hercules holding the weight of the world on his shoulders while society's structures try to pull him down. No ego problems there. :rolleyes:

The MUD versionwas the first person to welcome me to MUD in his own unique manner that could only be a John Galt.

Never would have thought that a Univesity Lit course would come in handy on a 4x4 forum. :hillbilly:
 
John, hows this for facts:

Based on your website and your statements above lets look at Vancouver, B.C. (remember the site says "Prices include taxes")

Diesel at 83.5 and that includes 31.7 in taxes making the "before tax" price 51.8

Heating oil at 72 which includes 6.1 in taxes making the "before tax" price 65.9

(these prices are current as of my post, I'm sure they will change from day to day)

Why is one 51.8 before taxes and the other 65.9 if they are essentially the SAME PRODUCT as we both seem to agree on? Are we now going to say that the dye in heating oil is worth 14.1 c/ltr?


Now look at nymex.com, a commodities trading website, no taxes included gasoline 1.26 and heating oil 1.18 (numbers will vary as it is a trading site). Let's for a moment assume that the difference in the base product on the Energy Canada website is correct and doesn't include taxes. That would only make diesel that much LESS costly!! Think about it for a moment!


Face the FACTS, it's all about taxes!! Remeber there are local taxes, provincial taxes and federal taxes. I doubt ALL are included in the website you've quoted. Some of the differences will be attributable to transportation costs and other differences will be attributable to taxes NOT included in your website.

My contention is that diesel, the basic product, is cheaper than gasoline and the price rises above gasoline based solely on the tax structure of the various locales be it local, provincial/state and/or federal.

I'm not complaining about taxes, I like what we get for taxes in Canada too but my contention is FAIR taxation and that is not happening.

Excellent breakdown, Charles.

Perhaps John Galt has some insight as to why these numbers do not jive. They certainly do not make sense to me.
 
Had to do a double take today. Filled up the BJ74, looked at the price on the diesel pump. Glanced over to the 87 octane gasoline price. Looked at the price on the diesel pump. Glanced over to the 87 octane gasoline price.

Yup. Diesel was cheaper.
 
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