Ferrules! Wagos!

[jellis]

One of the best things about them was the mounting carrier, part number 221-500. It can hold several lever-nuts and can be mounted in three different ways using small screws or DIN-35 rail. It makes a great way to organize and add to circuits.

Wow, that's AWESOME thanks for the tip on these!!!

Also Tesota your thorough followup on this is much appreciated. Regarding the testing, did the SPLICING connectors (such as 221 series) also pass these tests? Just curious, although the anecdotal evidence presented in this thread leads me to believe they are adequate for our uses.

 

[Tesota]

I don't sell the 221s so haven't tested them myself but it's the same internal mechanism in all of these terminals and connectors. Here's a link to a short test video from Wago:

WAGO 221 Series

WAGO’s 221 connects solid, stranded and fine-stranded conductors easily, quickly and safely.

www.wago.com

At a high level this test procedure involves running a set amount of current through the blocks/connectors while measuring voltage drop and/or current interruptions with an oscilloscope. IIRC the threshold is very low for a pass/fail, well under a millisecond.

 

[Eyedaho]

Jellis, we may be talking about different things. By ferrules I mean the crimped tubular termination fully covering a bare wire, to insert in screw/clamp connectors like in breakers etc, not eyelets etc terminals like in your link. Basically like shoelace endings but with a cap covering the wire insulation (usually).

They're great. I find the key to them working well is having the proper crimping tool (square/barrel). A little pricey, but well worth it imo.

 

[Tesota]

Pull test, this one failed at 85 ft-lbs. Most of my tests results were around 100 ft-lbs but this is the only one I recorded.



Rated current test of both an APDS and Egon DC Hub:

 

[e9999]

was reminded about ferrules just today. Have a piece of electronics with clamp on terminals. It is rated at 15A but I nevertheless attempted to cram 10 AWG wires in there. Well, that was not easy with the stranded wires I have, I'd try to twist them but they would "fray" when trying to ram them in there. Had to snip a couple of straying strands (!) Then today, I saw that a couple of connections were loose and the wires kinda flapping about. Overall, no good. Unfortunately, there is no way I could put a ferrule on the 10AWG and still put it in there, even overcrimped. So, bit the bullet. Downsized to a 12AWG which is fine for 15A and they are very short so no significant V drop. Put ferrules on the 12AWG. They fit in beautifully. Looks way more professional.


And the world is at peace again....!

 

[spressomon]

^ FWIW/FYI, ferrules for 10AWG are available. Or, maybe, doesn't your ferrule crimper go to 10AWG?

Heavy Duty Wire Ferrule, 10 AWG, Green

Hillsdale Terminal Wire Ferrules are Tin plated copper to resist corrosion and are excellent for tons of electrical installations creating a solid connection

www.wirecare.com

 

[e9999]

I have some 10AWG ferrules but they won't fit in the clamping receptacle. The reason is that the unit was designed for sensible wiring given its specs, not my silly 10AWG for a 15A max device. The 10AWG wire did barely fit without a ferrule, no way it would fit with a ferrule on, at least the ones I have. I was just trying to use 10AWG where it's not needed, cuz I'm trying to minimize losses, but that was overkill. Now it's still all good and makes more sense, and with ferrules I'm more confident the wires won't fall off. Looks damn good too...!

 

[e9999]

I just belatedly realized I should have tried to put my hydraulic crimper on the 10AWG ferrule and see if that would have made it fit the 12AWG receptacle... Cold swaging and all that... But those ferrules are pretty thin, may not have survived the ordeal. Oh well, next time!

 

[e9999]

ah! Looks like there is a new kid on the block (so to speak) ...

I saw that Ideal has come up with a Wago lever 221 connector equivalent. Pros seem to be that the levers are in the opposite direction (safer?) and has better wire retention. Cons include a bit bigger size and no 10AWG capability. Prices are similar, I read. All from memory.

Oddly, I don't see them on Amazon, but they are out there at supply houses, Lowes, ebay etc. I should get some to try.

 

[Tesota]

ah! Looks like there is a new kid on the block (so to speak) ...

I saw that Ideal has come up with a Wago lever 221 connector equivalent. Pros seem to be that the levers are in the opposite direction (safer?) and has better wire retention. Cons include a bit bigger size and no 10AWG capability. Prices are similar, I read. All from memory.

Oddly, I don't see them on Amazon, but they are out there at supply houses, Lowes, ebay etc. I should get some to try.

Nice find, I like the lever orientation and wouldn't hesitate to use these in a stationary application but not seeing any data published on their site about vibration resistance. When I get a chance I might get some of these and throw em on my vibration rig and see how they hold up vs the Wagos. I've also sent the manufacturer a message asking for some more info on ratings/testing, will update here if they get back to me.

 

[e9999]

Well, bummer. Setback!

Today, I made an improvised extension cable for a solar panel, and found out that my 10AWG ferrules (over 10AWG braided wire) don't fit properly in my 10AWG 221 Wagos. Nominal sizing notwithstanding. For one thing, they are overly hard to put in the Wago in the first place, it is very (too) tight and feels sketchy. Maybe because of the crimp shape or unevenness. But worse, turns out that my 10AWG ferrules (with insulated collar) are not long enough to be clamped properly by the Wago, they can be easily pulled out. I need extra long ferrules instead. Oddly enough, that was the first time I tried that particular combination. I was not expecting that...

 

[e9999]

Disappointed.

I looked some more at those 221-612 Wagos I tried to use with the ferrules. First I did crimp the ferrule quite a bit tighter, no dice. Then I tried to flatten the ferrule and get it to be shaped more like the rectangular hole in the Wago. Still no dice. It just does not want to go in easily. If I pushed very hard, I could get it to go in a bit but then it would stop before it can get clamped properly. And yes, I did remove the ferrule insulation, and tried to squish various ways. Nope.

Then I tried without the ferrule as a check. And damn, it does not go in either unless I push hard and it rejects (pushes back) some of the strands. But it clamps fine.

I double-checked with the specs and it does indeed say it should work with 10AWG stranded and even fine stranded. Mine is in the middle, I think.

So, conclusion: either my 10AWG is too big or they overestimated what wire it can accept. More likely the former, I guess.

Now, sure, I could make it fit by removing some of the strands but that is not a satisfying way to go. And I already have a number of ferruled pigtails I'm using with MCBs; I don't want to redo those anyway.


So, disappointed, at least given the wire I have to work with. They could have been a bit more generous on the size, I think.

So, PSA: don't assume your 10AWG wires will fit fine in the Wagos. Check to be sure...


If somebody has had better luck with all that, I'd be curious to hear about it!

 

[AirheadNut]

I never thought of using ferrules in a Wago, I can see that it would not want to bite as well as with bare copper. Unless you’re planning on switching wires around regularly I don’t see why a ferrule would be necessary, and at that point some other form of junction block would probably work better.
I used 10AWG GXL wire in Wagos all the time at my last job, a good twist of the strands and it fit great. Perhaps your 10AWG wire is a bit oversized?

 

[e9999]

Yes, this was to be a frequently removed wire. But if anything, I would think the ferrule would be better contact. It is soft copper too (tinned) and it is square after this crimping so it should contact better the flat bus bar and spring in the Wago, I imagine.

But, yes, maybe my wire is too big for 10ga. Which I would not otherwise complain about, of course. I'm measuring the copper OD at about 3.0-3.1mm but that gives about 7mm^2, quite a bit more than the 6mm^2 wires the Wago is likely designed for. I was expecting a bit more leeway in size acceptance, but my mistake I guess.

 

[e9999]

ah, I see that Wago also has some energy meters with the ubiquitous lever connections (and maybe for DIN rails?). Odd screen though. Anybody knows about those?

 

[Tesota]

ah, I see that Wago also has some energy meters with the ubiquitous lever connections (and maybe for DIN rails?). Odd screen though. Anybody knows about those?

Yikes, that price man...

Wago 879-3000

Ideal never responded to my messages asking for more information, kind of disappointed they didn't get back to me.

 

[e9999]

and now Harbor Freight is carrying Wago clones...

From memory they may be a big bigger, though. Don't know if they are as good as far as ampacity.

added: Had a look at the things on the HF website. They do mention that they will take 10AWG solid, but in typical HF fashion, nowhere do I see on that page what the actual current rating of the thing is. So I guess one could possibly assume that since it will take 10AWG it may be good for the typical 10AWG ampacity (40A or so?), but, eh, this is HF afterall, so you pay ya money, you take ya chances...

 

[AirheadNut]

HomeDepot now carries actual Wagos, I would be much more comfortable paying the additional price knowing that it won't melt down or catch something on fire.

 

[Eyedaho]

HomeDepot now carries actual Wagos, I would be much more comfortable paying the additional price knowing that it won't melt down or catch something on fire.

Agreed. HF is great for some things, but there is no way I would skimp on critical safety items like a mechanical electrical connector.

 

[e9999]

Of course. I wouldn't use one on a 15A circuit in a wall, but realistically, a generic clone would also likely be just fine for tinkering on the bench at lower currents. They are not exactly rocket science.