I think with all of the blown 1FZs due to HG failure a used crank would be a pretty easy thing to find.
Engine Woes - Rod Bearings?
- Thread starter hsiaoer
- Start date
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If what you're asking is can you pull the crank with the motor still in the chassis...I'm sure you could if you're creative enough. But by that time you will have done everything you need to pull the motor anyway.
So...said another way, that would be foolish, and asking for trouble. Bite the bullet, pull the motor...don't buy a used crank either unless you really really trust the person and they give you a money back guarantee.
And yes, you WILL need an engine hoist.
And you WILL need an engine stand of this type. The traditional engine stand will not support this motor safely.
- Harbor Freight Tools - Quality Tools at the Lowest Prices
It does not have to be this particular stand, Summit's is good too, but you need this shape of a base (that is wide, and four wheels) to safely hold this engine.
Summit's:
Performance Tool W41031 - Performance Tool Engine Stands - Overview - SummitRacing.com
Just find one with this basic shape...and I'm sure you can rent an engine hoist from somewhere...they are cheap though, but you really don't need them very often...they just get you into trouble...like pulling engines when you don't need to because you're bored (this has not happened to me in a LONG time, but it has).
Do man...we are all pulling for you to get it done! And I'm sure your crankshaft can be ground and made like-new. Find a good engine builder in your area and call them!
That's too bad. A good '80 is worth investing something to keep one working for you. BUT there limits before it becomes worth looking for another.
You will pull the block if you are going to repair that engine ... the slippery slope is that once the block is out ... you may as well consider rings, valves, pistons? rods? wrist pins? timing chain maybe gears etc etc ... yadayada.
Labour time and parts cost (and the inevitable shortage of SST tools/gauges) it maybe better to look at a factory short block which has been assembled in appropriate environment with tools/gauges that are appropriate to the application OR a lower mileage long block from a salvage yard.
In short - whats the rest of the vehicle like -- and what's the "business case" ... forgetting the emotional side for a little bit (course most vehicles are emotional objects!!) I don't know what I would do ....
You will pull the block if you are going to repair that engine ... the slippery slope is that once the block is out ... you may as well consider rings, valves, pistons? rods? wrist pins? timing chain maybe gears etc etc ... yadayada.
Labour time and parts cost (and the inevitable shortage of SST tools/gauges) it maybe better to look at a factory short block which has been assembled in appropriate environment with tools/gauges that are appropriate to the application OR a lower mileage long block from a salvage yard.
In short - whats the rest of the vehicle like -- and what's the "business case" ... forgetting the emotional side for a little bit (course most vehicles are emotional objects!!) I don't know what I would do ....
As a guy who has built 1FZ motors, and many other car engines, you WILL NOT need pistons. Very unlikely that any conn rods will need to be replaced either.
I don't recall the miles on this engine, but these they do not eat T-chains like a 22R(RE) does. So I'd bet the chain, sliders, tensioner are all fine too.
All you'll need is a crank grind (maybe a polish only??) new rings, check the oil pump, tank the block (to clean it), hone it, hone the conn rods, new bearings, maybe some head bolts, gaskets and put er together. Yeah, it will be more than $500, but it will also be a lot less than a short block.
NOW DO IT!
And stop naysaying all you all!
This thread is generating an unusual amount of temptation to dive into my own truck. Reseal or rebuild?
So I don't hi-jack this thread too badly, here is my own:
https://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-tech/326209-engine-woes-reseal-rebuild.html
Keep us posted hsiaoer.
So I don't hi-jack this thread too badly, here is my own:
https://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-tech/326209-engine-woes-reseal-rebuild.html
Keep us posted hsiaoer.
- Thread starter
- #47
Update:
I found a used motor out of a 97 that was rear ended. He is delivering this weekend. I'm getting the engine and tranny for $900. Is that a good price? I ran him through the interview process and he sounds pretty religious about maintenance.
Any advice on swapping? I think doing the engine/tranny combo is the easiest. Pull the radiator... disconnect everything... Pull it out... Set it gently on a tire...Bolt up the new one... Position in place and reverse.
What is the best engine puller/lift to get for this application? The ones suggested previously don't look like they have much up and down movement.
I found a used motor out of a 97 that was rear ended. He is delivering this weekend. I'm getting the engine and tranny for $900. Is that a good price? I ran him through the interview process and he sounds pretty religious about maintenance.
Any advice on swapping? I think doing the engine/tranny combo is the easiest. Pull the radiator... disconnect everything... Pull it out... Set it gently on a tire...Bolt up the new one... Position in place and reverse.
What is the best engine puller/lift to get for this application? The ones suggested previously don't look like they have much up and down movement.
Sounds like a good deal to me.
The poor guy way of doing this is to:
1) remove the hood
2) build an a-frame from 4x4 lumber, with the top of the A being a 4x6 or 4x8
3) hang a borrowed chain hoist from the top of the A
4) disconnect motor stuff
5) take weight off motor mounts with the chain hoist
6) place old carpet or skateboard under the motor
7) lower motor onto carpet or skateboard
8) jack up truck and slide the motor out
9) reverse steps to put new one in
Of course, this works much better with magnesium engine cases and air cooled cylinders and heads (ie VWs and Porsches), but I have also done it with iron blocks. Lucky I am still alive, but it does work.
The poor guy way of doing this is to:
1) remove the hood
2) build an a-frame from 4x4 lumber, with the top of the A being a 4x6 or 4x8
3) hang a borrowed chain hoist from the top of the A
4) disconnect motor stuff
5) take weight off motor mounts with the chain hoist
6) place old carpet or skateboard under the motor
7) lower motor onto carpet or skateboard
8) jack up truck and slide the motor out
9) reverse steps to put new one in
Of course, this works much better with magnesium engine cases and air cooled cylinders and heads (ie VWs and Porsches), but I have also done it with iron blocks. Lucky I am still alive, but it does work.
Oh, and BTW, I am glad you are swapping in a motor built by the Japanese guys at the factory. That's personal preference though.
That said, it might be worth doing the head gasket while it's sitting on your garage floor.
That said, it might be worth doing the head gasket while it's sitting on your garage floor.
- Thread starter
- #51
Whoa, I don't trust my A-Framing skills that much! I can get a used engine hoist for like $150, and I figure I'll find other uses for it later on...
I'm glad I'm swapping motors too, it somehow seems like less work and less risk. I would do the HG but the previous owners says it has never leaked, burns very little oil, and he's run mobil 1 synthetic every 5000 miles with the big oil filter.
Will I need anything special for the tranny? I figured I could just use my regular jack on it, but do I need to get an adapter or anything? I think I have a skateboard lying around, will that really work? I'm not quite following all your ups and downs. But I guess I'll figure that out when I get there.
I'm glad I'm swapping motors too, it somehow seems like less work and less risk. I would do the HG but the previous owners says it has never leaked, burns very little oil, and he's run mobil 1 synthetic every 5000 miles with the big oil filter.
Will I need anything special for the tranny? I figured I could just use my regular jack on it, but do I need to get an adapter or anything? I think I have a skateboard lying around, will that really work? I'm not quite following all your ups and downs. But I guess I'll figure that out when I get there.
I do not get this racist logic? Are Japanese people the only ones capable of building a good engine?
IMO, this seem like fool's logic...not that I'm trying to pick a fight here, but as a guy who has built many engines, and maintained long relationships with the vehicles that received the fruits of my labor, my work holds up just fine. One rebuild of mine is going ten+years ago and is still running strong.
Alas, to each his own.
Yeah...but why not this?
http://saltlakecity.craigslist.org/pts/1438586649.html
Hell I'd email him the link from Harbor Freight and as it its the same one...then show up with $100 and see what happens. But I'm shady like that!
Looks like the same one to me...and everyone is firm until you show up!
Nope...nothing special needed. You would be wise to pull the hood off. And then you can hang the trans with a 2x4 across the fenders and a couple old hangers or just use a plain Jane floor jack to support the trans and x-fer.
And BTW, I might be interested in your old motor if I end up coming out to the SLC area this winter to snowmobile. That would make it oh so easy to pick er up!
Woof...lucky is the key word here...that is f-ing crazy talk! I'm a cheap son-of-bitch, but I would NEVER sacrifice my safety for the possibility of a very painful and life-altering accident. That is just too much.
And from a guy who has first-hand experience with this engine...though not 3FE heavy, IT IS A HEAVY, LONG MOTOR. You need the right engine stand, and a decent cherry picker....of which HSIAOER, that latter you have found!
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- Thread starter
- #53
I think he was referring to a post above of a new short block being the best solution. I don't think(hope) he was being racist. The real irony would be if SBFJ is Japanese, or is the irony that I'm Chinese and don't trust my own rebuilding prowess? Either way SBFJ, as previously mentioned, you have full rights to work on my 80 anytime you want. I'll have it sitting in my shed with a tarp over it with your name on it.
HAH...that's funny. Hummm, maybe I do have some of the island people's blood running through my veins?
And uh, yeah....I'm sure you'll have this new motor in WAY before I get there....I want the rod knocker to rebuild in my spare time! Always nice to have a fresh engine sitting around!
maybe he means a Xtra HD furniture dolly... don't think I have seen a skateboard that would take the weight of the "80's block - and balancing it would be a pretty good feat.
As for lifting the body and sliding the block out .... I am pretty sure on my '80 (which comes uniquely equipped with a bloody big axle in the front ... ) it might be "tough sleddin in July"
but put me down for the pictures if you go that route...
- Thread starter
- #56
Yeah, I'm still trying to figure out what he was explaining...
From what I've gathered, its going to pull up at an agle, so you just need something to hold up the back of the tranny and be able to move forward. Then when you get it moved forward, I can just pull it up higher to miss all the axle, suspension, and cross member stuff. Granted I have more room because my oil pans are all off.
We'll see how it goes, and if I have a helper, I'll get some pics.
From what I've gathered, its going to pull up at an agle, so you just need something to hold up the back of the tranny and be able to move forward. Then when you get it moved forward, I can just pull it up higher to miss all the axle, suspension, and cross member stuff. Granted I have more room because my oil pans are all off.
We'll see how it goes, and if I have a helper, I'll get some pics.
Sorry for the lack of clarity in those comments. First, I meant the Japanese guy at the engine plant in a sort of tongue-in-cheek way. What I mean is, do you want an engine built in a fastidiously clean plant by lifetime employees who all do jumping jacks and Toyota cheers together every morning, or do you want to do it yourself buzzed up on Diet Coke after the kids are in bed and your wife is mad at you for not watching Grey's Anatomy with her? I want an engine built by the former guy. I would have said "little German elves" if we were talking about rebuilding a BMW motor. And while I agree that Americans can build engines (including but not limited to Toyota engines), somewhere in my gut I think I'd rather choose an engine built in Japan to drive across the Sahara over any other. That's not racist, but rather a statement about the corporate culture Japanese manufacturing companies have given to the world. But this is getting conversational.
RE: the lack of clarity in my engine swap procedure. Sorry. In this procedure, you lower the engine onto a skateboard or a piece of carpet and then slide it out from under the car. Probably not the best idea with a massive hunk like the ones in our trucks. But it works great with flat fours and sixes in German cars.
I haven't taken out my 80 motor. In some cars you can put a block of wood and a jack under the transmission to support it when you hoist out the motor. In others it is more convenient to remove the engine/tranny as a unit. Archive search will help with this.
RE: the lack of clarity in my engine swap procedure. Sorry. In this procedure, you lower the engine onto a skateboard or a piece of carpet and then slide it out from under the car. Probably not the best idea with a massive hunk like the ones in our trucks. But it works great with flat fours and sixes in German cars.
I haven't taken out my 80 motor. In some cars you can put a block of wood and a jack under the transmission to support it when you hoist out the motor. In others it is more convenient to remove the engine/tranny as a unit. Archive search will help with this.
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Cruiserdrew
On the way there
If you take it out with the tranny attached, you will need an engine leveler and you will need to pull the radiator, tranny coolers, a/c condenser and most of the front end sheet metal. I've had a couple of 2F/tranny/tcase out in 1 block and always with everything else out of the way. THe 80 combo is even longer-you will be amazed how long it is.
I would leave the tranny in place, separate them at the flex plate and lift just the motor.
I would leave the tranny in place, separate them at the flex plate and lift just the motor.
Yes - I understood where you were going on that Snowtire .. I have seen VW/Porsche/Renault Dauphines a BMW Isetta and one NSU done this way .. eg engine dropped on a dolly .. body lifted and engine dragged out from UNDER the chassis. But the challenge with this on an '80 might be daunting ... as mentioned earlier .. there is a very large axle in way among a lot of other issues...... it would be very handy if it could be accomplished this way though!!
- Thread starter
- #60
Oh, I gotcha, it comes out from UNDER the body. yeah, I double I have a jack that can get my axle over an engine...
Do you guys really think it's easier separating the two, then pulling?
I have read several thread discussing how it is easier just pulling everything connected. I'm pretty sure I have to pull the radiator either way.
Do you guys really think it's easier separating the two, then pulling?
I have read several thread discussing how it is easier just pulling everything connected. I'm pretty sure I have to pull the radiator either way.