Engine tuning
- Thread starter SHAGGY101
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Maybe we should work on dropping in the 5.7 motor to our old ass trucks... keep it OEM i say!
I really dont see why it hasn't been done yet. The modern GM and Dodge platforms are very popular swaps to older vehicles and the T100 guys with the early V6 motors swap in the later versions.
Would it fit (engine and trans?) What about the ECU? I'm assuming the electronics would need to come with. Are the t-case/diffs rated for the additional torque?
Let's not go down that road in this thread. An engine swap would be as expensive as it gets. For the extra 150 horses (at most), you could do a lot cheaper with a SC or a lot less power with more practicality with tuning, exhaust, headers, etc.
Even trimming 200lbs from these beasts would make a difference.
Even trimming 200lbs from these beasts would make a difference.
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Wondering if there's any value in port and polish on the intake side. Has anyone taken their intake/s apart on the 4.7? On a lot of the older Ford and Chevy motors, there stood big gains in a port and polish on the intake and/or exhaust. I'm assuming a lot of it was poor machining/design work to begin with but I wonder if anything can be done here on the 4.7.
Ya know, I looked into Mr. Bubbles' throttle-body while cleaning it last weekend and it sure looked like it could use a bit of clean-up along those lines.
Saw about 1/8 inch of flashing in a few locations sticking-out into the airstream where it connects to the intake manifold.
Maybe when I replace those starter contacts (209K and counting!) I'll have it looked at.
Saw about 1/8 inch of flashing in a few locations sticking-out into the airstream where it connects to the intake manifold.
Maybe when I replace those starter contacts (209K and counting!) I'll have it looked at.
I like where Darren is going with this. I'm all about seeing where we can get in an "all-motor" capacity w/ the 4.7...just not sure if it would be worth the money.
It'd be nice to let an engine builder take a gander at the intake side and see what (if anything) could be improved on. I wish that cams for these things weren't so ridiculously expensive. Some new bumpsticks with some tuning would be night and day.
It'd be nice to let an engine builder take a gander at the intake side and see what (if anything) could be improved on. I wish that cams for these things weren't so ridiculously expensive. Some new bumpsticks with some tuning would be night and day.
Shaggy101
ChipTorque use, amongst others, the Xede piggyback ECU which is a proven piggyback ECU here in Oz. I didnt click the links provided by the other poster, but be aware they are a good product. I dont know what else ChipTorque use as i am not a customer of theirs given they are 1000kms away from me.
I posted about the Xede on the current K&N thread. It's widely used here.
I know one guy that has installed the USA K&N cool air intake, the exhaust from Bullet Cars and Xede piggyback ECU tuned by ChipTorque (Darren...the guy that i hooked up hoser with for the airbox) and he's reporting good figures including torque steering under power and he hasn't supercharged his. 120kW at the wheels if i remember right.
I think he posted on here about it.
EDIT: and you have any doubts about ChipTorque then check this out http://www.lextreme.com/forums/showpost.php?p=114854&postcount=76 given they helped tune that beast! Which is a 1UZ-FE, Bullet Supercharger kit (Eaton/Harrop), in a very nice HiLux.
cheers
peter
ChipTorque use, amongst others, the Xede piggyback ECU which is a proven piggyback ECU here in Oz. I didnt click the links provided by the other poster, but be aware they are a good product. I dont know what else ChipTorque use as i am not a customer of theirs given they are 1000kms away from me.
I posted about the Xede on the current K&N thread. It's widely used here.
I know one guy that has installed the USA K&N cool air intake, the exhaust from Bullet Cars and Xede piggyback ECU tuned by ChipTorque (Darren...the guy that i hooked up hoser with for the airbox) and he's reporting good figures including torque steering under power and he hasn't supercharged his. 120kW at the wheels if i remember right.
I think he posted on here about it.
EDIT: and you have any doubts about ChipTorque then check this out http://www.lextreme.com/forums/showpost.php?p=114854&postcount=76 given they helped tune that beast! Which is a 1UZ-FE, Bullet Supercharger kit (Eaton/Harrop), in a very nice HiLux.
cheers
peter
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I'm for the idea of dropping the 5.7 in our cruisers. An increase in power and efficiency with no compromise in reliability.
Lexi4darin, I think you're writing off the value of oem, just a little too soon. 100+ horse power isn't something to sneeze at. If your 4.7 is near the end of its life anyways, an engine swap/upgrade is much more reasonable than a modification that will decrease the reliability on an already old engine. Personally, I'd be much more interested in dropping in the 5.7 (and maybe even supercharging it) than super/turbocharging the stock 4.7.
Expensive engine? Maybe. I'm keeping my cruiser for the long haul so I'm not too worried about that.
Lexi4darin, I think you're writing off the value of oem, just a little too soon. 100+ horse power isn't something to sneeze at. If your 4.7 is near the end of its life anyways, an engine swap/upgrade is much more reasonable than a modification that will decrease the reliability on an already old engine. Personally, I'd be much more interested in dropping in the 5.7 (and maybe even supercharging it) than super/turbocharging the stock 4.7.
Expensive engine? Maybe. I'm keeping my cruiser for the long haul so I'm not too worried about that.
Just guessing here... but I'd be thinking this would be a $20k upgrade. Engine, trans, computer (and the complications of how to drive the existing gauge cluster), custom fab, drivelines, etc. And that's assuming it dimensionally would fit between the radiator and firewall.
And other than the pride of having a one-of-a-kind conversion that $20k would almost entirely be lost. Not much of a market for a hacked truck.
OTOH, say you were going to buy a $25k LC... in another couple of years that plus $20k could get you pretty close to a 200. I'm all for mods - even fantasy mods - but this one is a stretch...
And other than the pride of having a one-of-a-kind conversion that $20k would almost entirely be lost. Not much of a market for a hacked truck.
OTOH, say you were going to buy a $25k LC... in another couple of years that plus $20k could get you pretty close to a 200. I'm all for mods - even fantasy mods - but this one is a stretch...
I'm definitely with Dennis on this one. The idea of a 5.7 sounds great, but logistically it would be a nightmare from lots of different angles. This isn't like dropping a 6.0 LQ4 into a Tahoe, its an entirely different motor never meant to see the engine bay of a 100. I'm not saying that it can't be done (with enough money just about anything is possible), but cost vs practicality is a big consideration here.
What is the usable life of a 4.7, anyway? I have yet to hear of anyone on here wearing one out, so I don't think that we should count high mileage motors out as long as proper precautions are taken to strengthen the rest of the driveline. Cams, computer tuning, port/polish, intake/exhaust and a built trans would cost some coin, but I bet 100hp isn't out of the realm of possibility, and you don't have the added headaches of trying to shoehorn a different motor (and trans?) into the 100. In the end, I think it would cost less for similar gains. Longevity then becomes the issue, but you are starting with a very stout motor.
What is the usable life of a 4.7, anyway? I have yet to hear of anyone on here wearing one out, so I don't think that we should count high mileage motors out as long as proper precautions are taken to strengthen the rest of the driveline. Cams, computer tuning, port/polish, intake/exhaust and a built trans would cost some coin, but I bet 100hp isn't out of the realm of possibility, and you don't have the added headaches of trying to shoehorn a different motor (and trans?) into the 100. In the end, I think it would cost less for similar gains. Longevity then becomes the issue, but you are starting with a very stout motor.
Mech - IMO, the simple cost of getting the parts for a 5.7L swap would be reason enough to not spend time looking into it more seriously. Even if you got parts from a completely wrecked FJ200, you'll spend $15k. Plus, adding an exhaust or simple mod doesn't necessarily put the 100's reliability in jeopardy so don't let that dissuade you from just tweaking and massaging the 4.7L a little bit.
Like Fuzz, I think there's more to be squeezed out of the 4.7L motor without significantly compromising any reliability or driving characteristics. 50-100hp is probably likely on a reasonable budget. Personally, I'd spend about $3-4k to get the HP and torque figures in the 300HP / 375lb/ft range.
The biggest question is what's the path to getting more power in a cost effective manner for the 4.7L. We already know these levels of performance exist ...
Cost range - Product Mod - Power - Cost
$0 - 1k - DT header - 22hp / 10lb-ft - $650
$1k - 5k - Unknown - 50-100hp (maybe?) - NA
$5k - 10k - TRD SC (disco'd) - 125hp - $7k (G'luck!)
$10k - and up - SleeTurbo/Bullet SC - +150hp - ~$15k
- 5.7L conversion - ~150hp - +$15k
Like Fuzz, I think there's more to be squeezed out of the 4.7L motor without significantly compromising any reliability or driving characteristics. 50-100hp is probably likely on a reasonable budget. Personally, I'd spend about $3-4k to get the HP and torque figures in the 300HP / 375lb/ft range.
The biggest question is what's the path to getting more power in a cost effective manner for the 4.7L. We already know these levels of performance exist ...
Cost range - Product Mod - Power - Cost
$0 - 1k - DT header - 22hp / 10lb-ft - $650
$1k - 5k - Unknown - 50-100hp (maybe?) - NA
$5k - 10k - TRD SC (disco'd) - 125hp - $7k (G'luck!)
$10k - and up - SleeTurbo/Bullet SC - +150hp - ~$15k
- 5.7L conversion - ~150hp - +$15k
For the record, I may be completely wrong, but I read about this a LONG time ago. Also i dont recall the source.....so it could be BS, but i find it plausible
Toyota supposedly has a requirement (more of a design goal) that the engine should be able to last in extreme conditions (like its entire life in the outback getting abused) for a minimum of 350,000Km (about 217,000 miles) with bare minimum required maintenance. I think this also applied to the transmission.
Also they are capable of being rebuilt at two or three times.
So far I have seen two 100s with over 300K miles and still going. The 1FZ from the 80 has had multiple engines go for a very long time.....granted I think it was built a little tougher the 2UZ IMO.
You really think it would be that much to switch the 5.7 into it? I was under the impression that the 200 series already had the 5.7 in it, but I may be wrong about that. If it did, it seems like it would be more of a retrofit rather than a conversion. If that's case then I'll change my opinion on the matter. 15k-20k is pretty steep.
mechanixhorseman said:
Swapping a 5.7 into a 100 isn't trivial. I was actually joking when I dropped it in the thread earlier.
The 200 has that motor but a zillion more Tundra's have it. Going that route and talking about it further is really not tuning the 4.7, its a very different topic. We should resume discussing tuning here and start a separate engine swap thread.
So instead of swapping for a 5.7, how about a performance rebuild of the 4.7...
TTC Performance 1/2/3uzfe built longblock
TTC Performance 1/2/3uzfe built longblock
Very interesting website! Looks like they have a stroker kit to make the 4.7 into a 5.8.
Easily, probably more than $20k when all is said and done. And the 200 is an entirely re-designed platform from the 100. As Rob put it, there is nothing trivial (or simple) about trying to take a 5.7 and drop it in. Just because the badge says "Land Cruiser" on the back doesn't mean the engines are interchangable.
Darin, I think we should focus on the $1k - $5k block since that seems to be our missing datapoint right now. Dropping $7-$10k on forced induction isn't practical for most of us. I'll e-mail Eric over at TTC and see what he can offer us as far as cams go. Should be interesting.
I'm already talking to Eric, the owner, on this topic. It's not trivial nor is it easy, guaranteed, or cheap. But the talks are going and he seems optimistic.
