Drove the 200 Diesel today.

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And does 381hp mean anything to you? :D


Just kidding. I think 650Nm converts to around 480lbs of torque. Am I right about this? The 5.7 is rated at 401lb of torque. The 5.7 also tows about at 1/2 ton more that the diesel version using the same exact transmission and ratios from what I have research. Also, there is no way the diesel can get to 60mph faster than the 5.7 gas engine.

So right there. In my mind the winner by far is the 5.7 gas.

In my mind, the diesel does have a longer life cycle (but Toyota gas engines are pretty good) and a much better fuel economy.


This is a complicated subject and not quite as simple as you make it out to be.

Horsepower is an over-rated statistic. I guess in real terms you could say that it helps you to maintain speed, but is not really as much a factor in acceleration as most people think.

Torque is what gets you moving off the line. It is the only thing you can actually feel when driving (that kick in the pants is torque, not horsepower). Horsepower is only a derivative of torque. It will vary throughout the torque, and RPM, range. Dynomometers don't measure hp (not even sure if that is possible since a "horsepower" is in itself an arbitrary creation). Instead, they measure rotational force exerted by the tires on the rollers (i.e. torque). To this measurement a mathematical formula is applied to derive a horsepower rating.

The advantage of a diesel, all things being equal, is that the max torque is delivered at much lower RPMs than in a petrol gas engine. That's one reason that diesels are usually preferred for towing.

Someone else made a good point. If horsepower is only good for maintaining peak speed (which it is) and you care about that, get a Porsche. For a truck that will actually be doing work, IMHO the diesel is much preferred.

There are lots of other reasons to prefer the diesel, some of which you cited.

And tow ratings are a lot of times a political (and marketing) issue. In the U.S. market, tow ratings sell trucks. But in other countries it may not be such a concern, so they may not bother trying to get it rated higher. Who really knows how they think, but I can give you one example where there is a difference for the same truck but in different countries. The rear cross member on the 80 Series is drilled for a NATO pintle hitch. In other countries, it was rated for towing by Toyota. But in the U.S. it was not because Toyota did not want to go through the hassle of certifying it, knowing that most people here would never use it, preferring instead to use a separate receiver hitch to tow. Doesn't mean it couldn't actually tow a significant amount of weight, just that Toyota didn't want any liability for it.

Just don't believe everything you read on the Errornet (including this post). Go out and get the information for yourself and make your own decision, but certainly don't let some corporation's marketing materials make the decision for you.
 
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You're sounding a little defensive there. I'm not knocking the petrol version, just stating why I prefer diesels.

I can't find anything useful on the NZ toyota website regarding towing capacity. But the Australian site lists 3500kg. That is the limit for the 1 7/8" and 50mm towballs used in these two countries.
For higher ratings you're usually looking at a ringfeder fitted to heavy trucks.
For example the rangerovers year 1969-1994 were rated at 4000kg tow capacity (yes that's fractionally higher than the US 200 series. But finding a towball rated to 4000kg is close to impossible.

Where browsing US towhitch sites shows the 2 5/16" size with a 10,000lb rating. Under the UK and Australian standards that option isn't available.

No not trying to sound defensive at all.

Comparing the 4.5 v8 to the 4.7 petrol, the diesel 4.5 takes it hands down. But it is too bad the 5.7 is not available to you guys down in NZ. 401lbs of torque at 3600rpm is not to bad for a gas engine and is not that far off from the diesels 479lbs which is a little lower especially because the tanny favors the 5.7 petrol which is set up the same for the Tundra 5.7, Landcruiser 5.7 and Land Crusier 4.5.

Toyota has really down something special with the 5.7. If you were to rig up a 4.5 Sahara LC and a 5.7 USA land crusier with 3500kg because UK and Aussie can't support a bigger tow hitch, the 5.7 will out pull the 4.5 and get to speed quicker, keep the speed and pass faster than the 4.5. Also,

Comparing the 4.5 to the 4.7 is a whole different story.


The 4.5 diesel would be laughed at in any application over hear in North America. Also, Toyota just recently created a Tundra dually concept and suprisingly they did not put the 4.5 diesel engine in it. They used a Hino engine. I wonder why?

There are diesel pickups running 360hp and 660lbs of torque and people are comparing the towing of the 5.7 to them......

Now for fuel economy....yes the 4.5 wins hands down


its all too bad....because I will never likely get the chance to drive the 4.5 diesel and you will not likely ever get to drive the 5.7 petrol so there really isn't is no real point in arguing on the net about it.

And BTW, if I was purchasing a LC and had the choice between the 4.5, 4.7 and 5.7...I would go 4.5 because 10.5litres per 100km is not too bad and fuel economy is somewhat important to me. I am not sure if that is mixed driving.


Dougal. What are petro/diesel prices like in NZ?
 
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Ok...So what else?
The 5.7 and 4.7 come with crawl control which not available on the diesel and costs a little less.


That's because you automatically get crawl control on a diesel! Just put the stick into 1st, put t-case into L, take foot off the clutch. There's your crawl cruise control! That feature is a solution to a problem that doesn't exist on a diesel 4x4.

Diesel often requires more frequent oil changes, plus diesel costs a lot more than high octane. Here, it's like $3.19/gal for high octane ($2.97/gal for regular) and $3.49/gal for diesel. So with the need for more frequent maintenance and higher fuel costs over petrol, the main reasons to get the diesel is for the low-end torque and longer driving range between fuel stops (and bragging rights;) )
 
That's because you automatically get crawl control on a diesel! Just put the stick into 1st, put t-case into L, take foot off the clutch. There's your crawl cruise control! That feature is a solution to a problem that doesn't exist on a diesel 4x4.

True, but that is not what the crawl feature only does in the 200 LC.
 
No not trying to sound defensive at all.

Comparing the 4.5 v8 to the 4.7 petrol, the diesel 4.5 takes it hands down. But it is too bad the 5.7 is not available to you guys down in NZ. 401lbs of torque at 3600rpm is not to bad for a gas engine and is not that far off from the diesels 479lbs which is a little lower especially because the tanny favors the 5.7 petrol which is set up the same for the Tundra 5.7, Landcruiser 5.7 and Land Crusier 4.5.

Toyota has really down something special with the 5.7. If you were to rig up a 4.5 Sahara LC and a 5.7 USA land crusier with 3500kg because UK and Aussie can't support a bigger tow hitch, the 5.7 will out pull the 4.5 and get to speed quicker, keep the speed and pass faster than the 4.5. Also,

Comparing the 4.5 to the 4.7 is a whole different story.


The 4.5 diesel would be laughed at in any application over hear in North America. Also, Toyota just recently created a Tundra dually concept and suprisingly they did not put the 4.5 diesel engine in it. They used a Hino engine. I wonder why?

There are diesel pickups running 360hp and 660lbs of torque and people are comparing the towing of the 5.7 to them......

Now for fuel economy....yes the 4.5 wins hands down


its all too bad....because I will never likely get the chance to drive the 4.5 diesel and you will not likely ever get to drive the 5.7 petrol so there really isn't is no real point in arguing on the net about it.

And BTW, if I was purchasing a LC and had the choice between the 4.5, 4.7 and 5.7...I would go 4.5 because 10.5litres per 100km is not too bad and fuel economy is somewhat important to me. I am not sure if that is mixed driving.


Dougal. What are petro/diesel prices like in NZ?

The 5.7 may eventually be available here in Lexus form, but right now it's too early to know. If it does I'd expect exactly the same tow rating as the landcruisers. In case you weren't aware, the tow ratings here are based on chassis and towbar strength, engine power is completely irrelevant. Which is why trucks with less than 300hp have tow ratings well above and beyond the 300hp 4wd's.

For the 5.7 delivers a tiny bit more power than the diesel at 3500rpm. To deliver enough power to make up for the losing in the first 3500rpm it will need to be spinning around 5000rpm and you'll be stopping at every petrol station.

Concept vehicles are designed to get peoples attention. It is rare that they make production with any resemblence of the original unveiling. But any diesel heavy duty pickup which toyota releases in NA will compete head to head with the cummins powered dodge and chevy duramax. The 4.5 diesel is two car engines joined at the hip, not the truck engine that market segment demands.
 
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That's because you automatically get crawl control on a diesel! Just put the stick into 1st, put t-case into L, take foot off the clutch. There's your crawl cruise control! That feature is a solution to a problem that doesn't exist on a diesel 4x4.

Diesel often requires more frequent oil changes, plus diesel costs a lot more than high octane. Here, it's like $3.19/gal for high octane ($2.97/gal for regular) and $3.49/gal for diesel. So with the need for more frequent maintenance and higher fuel costs over petrol, the main reasons to get the diesel is for the low-end torque and longer driving range between fuel stops (and bragging rights;) )

All Land Cruiser 200 SUV's come with the same hi/lo range transfer case. Also, when you select crawl control, you have to shift the truck into 4 lo the gas 200 SUV take 4lo one step further.

As for the gas. 10.3litres/100km is pretty impressive for the 200 series in NZ. There is no mention if this is combined fuel economy of just highway. Compared to the 14.5litres per 100 for the 4.7 and about 13.7 for the 5.7 I would have to say that the diesel fuel economy is pretty good.

I think the 4.5, 4.7 and 5.7 all have pretty close maintenence intervals so I don't think that is a factor. The 5.7 likely wins when it comes to maintenence. The maintenence interval is a little longer overseas than the us version anyhow.
 
As for the gas. 10.3litres/100km is pretty impressive for the 200 series in NZ. There is no mention if this is combined fuel economy of just highway. Compared to the 14.5litres per 100 for the 4.7 and about 13.7 for the 5.7 I would have to say that the diesel fuel economy is pretty good.

The quoted diesel economy is combined, measured to some Australian Design Rule (ADR). It's about 1km/l better than the claim for the 100 series.
The people I know with petrol 100 series landcruisers (one lexus) get 4km/l around town (25L/100) and not much better towing on the open road.

Ouch.
 
FYI

New diesel trucks are faster on the drag than a Porshe 911, and 200k dollar ferrari's and some thingies that starts with a m or something like that, that makes the diablo, wow, I cant remember, oh the lamborghini....

this is with a computer thingy and a good turbo... expensive family size truck doing better that sports cars that cost hundreds of thousands of dollars are have worse fuel economy
 
That's because you automatically get crawl control on a diesel! Just put the stick into 1st, put t-case into L, take foot off the clutch. There's your crawl cruise control! That feature is a solution to a problem that doesn't exist on a diesel 4x4.

Diesel often requires more frequent oil changes, plus diesel costs a lot more than high octane. Here, it's like $3.19/gal for high octane ($2.97/gal for regular) and $3.49/gal for diesel. So with the need for more frequent maintenance and higher fuel costs over petrol, the main reasons to get the diesel is for the low-end torque and longer driving range between fuel stops (and bragging rights;) )

a diesel can go for extended times before an oil change is necessary... if you run a filter bypass system and monitor the oil thru analysis you should be able to go long extended times before changes...also diesel engines are much more efficent than a gasser and the lifespan is double if not triple that of a gas engine..maintainence should be alot less over the lifespan of the engine as well ....but the price of fuel is for the birds in the states...
 
FYI

New diesel trucks are faster on the drag than a Porshe 911, and 200k dollar ferrari's and some thingies that starts with a m or something like that, that makes the diablo, wow, I cant remember, oh the lamborghini....

this is with a computer thingy and a good turbo... expensive family size truck doing better that sports cars that cost hundreds of thousands of dollars are have worse fuel economy

:confused::confused::confused: :rolleyes:
 

Hopefully that one's gone back under his bridge.:)

The oil change intervals on the Toyota Avensis D4D are 30,000km. Yes that's around 20,000 miles.
The landcruisers V8 is basically two of these Avensis 4 cyl diesels joined at the hip and slightly derated. The Avensis engines put out 100Nm per cylinder.

There are a lot of myths and wives tales surrounding diesels. Maintenance and oil change intervals are the main ones.
 

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