Does LX Really Have 2 More HP?

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:worms: :)

The A3 is a turbo I4.
I've seen zero difference in hand calculated MPG or 0-60 between regular and premium.
When these vehicles were released in 07, the difference in price between regular and premium was small. Now it's not. I'm not sure how much if any additional wear using regular will cause, but if there's zero noticeable wear after 100,000 miles, I'm not sure if the thousands of extra dollars makes financial sense. YMMV.
 
The ECU will adjust timing incrementally for the fuel being run. It is not instantaneous, it takes a decent number of miles before the adjustment is made.

I haven't had any of my Toyota's on a dyno machine, but my mpg definitely improves after a couple tanks of premium, but definitely not enough to justify the difference in price. When premium was only $.20 more a gallon, it was about break even to make up the difference. I noticed this difference with all of my modern Toyota 4x4s (Tacoma, Tundra, 4Runner with 4.0 V6, 4R with 47. V8 and LC).

I get the best mileage when I run no ethanol gasoline, but again, it costs more out of pocket to do this, but the time I save by filling up less makes it worth it to me. I previously lived in Missouri, where no ethanol gas had to be premium (stupid law). I've subsequently moved to WA where I can get no ethanol regular, and that seems to provide me with the best increase in MPG to cost ratio. To me no ethanol regular costs about the same as 10% ethanol premium, and I get far better MPG with the No ethanol.

Here is a video where a few engines were tested w regular vs premium. Dude looks nerdy enough that you have to trust him:


I think the biggest difference for me was with the Toyota 4.0 V6 in my 4Runner. I feel like that engine is underpowered for the weight of the vehicle, so advanced timing/more power made a big difference in power and overall MPG. The LC has plenty of power, so advancing the timing won't give a big boost to MPG. You may notice a bit more with towing.

If you want to test for yourself, run a couple tanks with regular and then a couple with premium. Ideally with similar driving distances, terrain, etc.
 
If you want to test for yourself, run a couple tanks with regular and then a couple with premium. Ideally with similar driving distances, terrain, etc.

I believe you that it made a difference with your 4runner.

On the LC/LX, I did test it multiple times between 87 and 93 octane. It is always within one tenth of 1 MPG difference.

Wish we had pure, unadulterated gas here.
 
I believe you that it made a difference with your 4runner.

On the LC/LX, I did test it multiple times between 87 and 93 octane. It is always within one tenth of 1 MPG difference.

Wish we had pure, unadulterated gas here.

I ran 4 tanks of premium with mostly my same work commute. First tank saw a small bump and successive tanks saw a > 1 but <2 mpg boost. Still lots of variables, and not a big bump, but it was consistently better. With 0 ethanol premium I was seeing around 3 mpg better than 87 w ethanol With 87 grade 0 ethanol I see about 2 mpg better than 87 w ethanol.

Ethanol sucks.
 
Multiple angles to look at this.

1) MPG
I get that most of you want to look at it from this angle. Fueling costs are one of the most significant lifecycle costs to car ownership. Yes, there's some efficiency advantage to higher octane fuel, but the reality is that one will never see the added "value" from premium fuel in terms of mpg.

As noted above, non-corn fuel is a bigger differentiator here. Funny thing is that ethanol itself is higher octane (>110) than typical petroleum fuel. But less energy content. So the fuel industry is happy to use it to get the right higher blended octane. Essentially using cheaper filler, that makes higher octane gas, that they can sell you at a premium, yet results in lower mpg. Raw deal for us consumers!

2) Engine wear
This is specific to the LX570 that "requires premium". It's all about engine software calibration, specifically timing. This is not about turbo, or not. NA engines are calibrated to run right at the knock threshold also, as that's where the greatest power, efficiency, and emissions lie. An engine calibrated to run on high test fuel, will run a timing map, that when run on low octane, WILL knock. The only way the ECU knows that low grade gas is being used, is by experiencing knock. Only then, will the ECU back off timing. Only to ramp timing again, and hit knock. Rinse and repeat. Every knock event is added wear and tear. It may not be significant knock to where the user will hear or feel it. But it will be there. Just like the human body will run on junk and fast food. Overtime, it catches up to you. I've tuned NA, turbo, and supercharged engines and they all follow the principle of timing advance, load, and knock. If you'd have seen the readings and logs firsthand, you'd feel differently. Again this is specific to vehicles that "require premium". "Recommend premium" or "87 octane" owners can happily run "junk food" grade gas without consequence.
 
...Again this is specific to vehicles that "require premium". "Recommend premium" or "87 octane" owners can happily run "junk food" grade gas without consequence.

Man, my wallet is soooo glad that the LC was designed to run on “junk food” gas... ;)
 
Spending $7-$10 per tank to run premium fuel as specified by manufacturer? RIDICULOUS.

Spending thousands transforming our rigs into heavy, gas-guzzling pigs, only to be on pavement most of the time? TOTALLY NORMAL.

In all seriousness, why is this debate such a hot topic? We could have all saved money a bought a 4runner but we didn't.
 
Man, my wallet is soooo glad that the LC was designed to run on “junk food” gas... ;)

Yup, I wish I could do the same with my body! Perhaps some people with the right genetics will get to a ripe old age consuming fast food. Not sure I will take that chance.
 
Spending $7-$10 per tank to run premium fuel as specified by manufacturer? RIDICULOUS.

Spending thousands transforming our rigs into heavy, gas-guzzling pigs, only to be on pavement most of the time? TOTALLY NORMAL.

In all seriousness, why is this debate such a hot topic? We could have all saved money a bought a 4runner but we didn't.

Heh. So true about our heavy pigs...
Why do we blather on? I dunno... It’s a tech forum. We like to figure stuff out.

The part that’s funny to me is that I keep reading about this octane bid-ness...even though my mind was made up on this question quite some time back. With the money I’ve saved NOT buying premium...buying regular gas...a few of my pig-mods nearly balance out!
 
Heh. So true about our heavy pigs...
Why do we blather on? I dunno... It’s a tech forum. We like to figure stuff out.

I prefer the term bloviate.
 
We only have 93 octane around here not 91. For an LX should I go mid grade 89 or just pump the 93? Let me ask it a different way. Will the two extra octane be a waste or will the 89 not be quite enough to take advantage of the program on the lx?
 
Just don't try to get better mileage by using diesel.
 
The LC has plenty of power, so advancing the timing won't give a big boost to MPG. You may notice a bit more with towing.

FWIW I ran either premium or at least a higher octane than whatever the local regular was (i.e. 89 vs 85 in Colorado) last summer for the second half of my 4500 mile trip. Towing 5000# behind me and anecdotally it made zero difference in mileage. Granted speed, wind, elevation changes, etc all impact mileage so even a 1-2 mph average difference on the highway or a 5-10mph headwind can offset any gains, but in almost 2000 miles of driving, predominantly towing, I could discern no difference in power or mileage, sadly.
 
“Recommended” VS “Required”. My LX states required. Good enough for me to alway use Premium. That’s always the scary part of buying a used vehicle you hope to God you don’t buy from an owner that think they know more about the engineering of the vehicle then the engineers that built it ;)
 
Just don't try to get better mileage by using diesel.

But I heard diesel fuel is a lot more efficient! :)
“Recommended” VS “Required”. My LX states required. Good enough for me to alway use Premium. That’s always the scary part of buying a used vehicle you hope to God you don’t buy from an owner that think they know more about the engineering of the vehicle then the engineers that built it ;)


I think it would be helpful if someone who looks at Toyota would verify whether the ECU between the 200 and LX have different programming. The part number is the same for both.
 
I think it would be helpful if someone who looks at Toyota would verify whether the ECU between the 200 and LX have different programming. The part number is the same for both.

If the part # is the same I would be shocked if the ECU tuning is different. The point of part #s is to categorize the differences, and Toyota has dozens of part numbers for similar parts across many vehicles even for extremely subtle differences. If there was a difference, there's no way to tell if you have put an LC ECU into an LX, which would be a nightmare for Toyota repairs.

Even if there was a different firmware tuning depending on LC vs LX, Toyota would have a different P/N for each ECU so that you couldn't apply an LX firmware to an LC (or vice-versa) and the firmware would verify the P/N is applicable before applying. As a software guy, I can tell you that if you try to apply the Dell 5150 firmware to your Dell 5100 laptop it will NOT work, and years ago the firmware developers realized they needed to check the hardware you were applying that firmware to before they actually applied it, lest you end up turning your $1,000 laptop into a very expensive door stop.
 
If the part # is the same I would be shocked if the ECU tuning is different. The point of part #s is to categorize the differences, and Toyota has dozens of part numbers for similar parts across many vehicles even for extremely subtle differences. If there was a difference, there's no way to tell if you have put an LC ECU into an LX, which would be a nightmare for Toyota repairs.

Even if there was a different firmware tuning depending on LC vs LX, Toyota would have a different P/N for each ECU so that you couldn't apply an LX firmware to an LC (or vice-versa) and the firmware would verify the P/N is applicable before applying. As a software guy, I can tell you that if you try to apply the Dell 5150 firmware to your Dell 5100 laptop it will NOT work, and years ago the firmware developers realized they needed to check the hardware you were applying that firmware to before they actually applied it, lest you end up turning your $1,000 laptop into a very expensive door stop.

Part # is the same:
89661-60K82
89661-60K81 - Genuine Lexus COMPUTER, ENGINE CON
Toyota Ecm 89661-60K82 | ToyotaOfGrandRapids

I would not be concerned about putting 87 Octane in a LX. I would be floored if the timing system is not set up to automatically retard the timing to prevent knocking. Since the ECMs transmissions and engines are the same, I wonder why the LX requires (not recommends) premium. Strange.
 

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