I have an 09 LX that I mostly use for Overland but do like to occasionally thrash off road at the local ORV Park. Looking at skids and I would like to keep my build as light as possible. Does anyone have experience with both? I'm sure they would both do the job just fine. However, the dissent looks like it has maybe a little more reinforced but it sounds like there may be an issue with the bolts bending after you smash it on rocks a few times. Just looking for some input.
Dissent vs Budbuilt aluminum skids?
- Thread starter Lexzilla
- Start date
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Markuson
SILVER Star
Avoid bolts, harsh angles and traps.
Analogy:
Public park bench keepers and concrete wall owners finally got smart by adding “bumps” to the edges...to frustrate skateboarders who like to grind on them...and it works.
-It’s just no fun grinding over interrupted surfaces.
Skidding over rocks with bolts sticking DOWN...?
-That’s about as “fun” as this sliding down this escalator with things sticking UP.
Whatever brand you look at...
My 1.5 cents is—
—When comparing skid designs (assuming similar strength, which may or may not apply here)....just imagine sliding your BUTT against the skid surface—and assume you weigh 7000 lbs.
— You’ll choose wisely.
........
Analogy:
Public park bench keepers and concrete wall owners finally got smart by adding “bumps” to the edges...to frustrate skateboarders who like to grind on them...and it works.
-It’s just no fun grinding over interrupted surfaces.
Skidding over rocks with bolts sticking DOWN...?
-That’s about as “fun” as this sliding down this escalator with things sticking UP.
Whatever brand you look at...
My 1.5 cents is—
—When comparing skid designs (assuming similar strength, which may or may not apply here)....just imagine sliding your BUTT against the skid surface—and assume you weigh 7000 lbs.
— You’ll choose wisely.
........
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Taco2Cruiser
Crazy American Off Road
I would definitely want Ben @benc to respond also, it’s only fair. Plus Ben is a great guy and I’m not upset at all if you go with his over BudBuilt (mine).
That said, for BudBuilts, they are called 1/4” aluminum but the inside is reinforced with another 1/4” of aluminum. (Here is a raw set of stainless as an example, but aluminum is constructed the same way, just thicker)
Some have said that BudBuilts are simple flat skids. Nothing could be more wrong, there’s a lot going on in there, it’s just all hidden on the inside.
The design takes into account that the radiator crossmember is weak as snot (along with the frame horns). So during front end impacts, the forward load is transitioned to the engine skid plate and onto the engine crossmembers. The only thing the radiator crossmember takes is upward impact, which when driving forward, is much, much less.
Plus the lead edge is double stacked, and all those weird recesses and angles exist to distribute the impact load across the plate and even it out across the frame. That’s that whole “material science” background of Bud's military engineering past comes from. Which is far beyond me. While I also worked in developing next generation combat vehicles, I was the warfighter that told the engineers their ideas don’t work in real life/offered what I thought an "improvement” would be over legacy equipment.
The big difference I see is Dissent's reinforcements are on the outside and exposed, and BudBuilt’s are hidden. Which is (in our opinion) the ONLY way to make skids.
It’s more than just fasteners, all the edges, recesses, they are catch points. Over a decade ago, I had an FJ cruiser and was looking at BudBuilt or All Pro Off road skids. I went with All pro because they looked a lot like dissents. “Higher clearance” hell yea. All I learned was that in the terrain I wheeled in ex Rubicon, Paragon, Gulches, Bad Lands, Tellico, the skid would hook on something and bam... stuck. In sugar sand and mud, they make no difference.
I switch and go with BudBuilts (also the All Pros damaged my frame) and did all the same trails and realized you need a smooth belly. It’s not a rock crawling thing, it’s also a mud and muck thing.
If there is one terrain I know, it’s mud. I’m like the Bane of Mud.“I was born in the mud!” When you have a bunch of holes in your skids, you just create a cheese grader effect and start shoving crap up into your transmission tunnel. The truck doesn’t have nearly the sliding abilities, which is why skids exist. You never just impact and bounce back. You impact, and drag your way until the rear tires lift you back up.
For the high clearance front skid Dissent has: okay, so follow me on this, what pointy rock is going to be perfectly fit in there? But then, when this perfect pointy rock starts to push against the bottom of the skids, you are passing the front wheels. Now, you are loosing more ground clearance, so you become hung up. And when you get hung up, the truck is lifted, and a coupe tires with the last bit of traction, will rotate the truck until you are fully hung up. Now when you back off the obstacle, good luck taking the e exact same path.
With a flat bottom skids, you still impact, but you have the best chance at sliding, as that is you only chance.
In pushing through deep mud, if it’s soupy, you are going to keep going anyway. If it is thick gumbo mud, having a little recess is indifferent. You still got a rear axle, suspension components, and the frame. The only that is going to help you push through mud is having a tire that gets to the bottom, and finds something that it can bit into. And no one with a 200 has enough width to float on mud.
Look at any rock crawler or mud dragger, they are only smooth bellies. There is a reason, I fell into the trap myself. Experience showed me what works.
Again, Ben and his company are solid. When guys call me about bumpers, I direct them to Dissent. When some calls me wanting Aluminum sliders, I direct them to Dissent. But the skids, I think are just... very counter productive in my view. And Ben and I have discussed that. He disagrees with me, which I expect him to, and he has his reasons. Which I respect and value.
The plus at the end of the day is, there are more options out there. Which will help people fill their build the way, THEY see fit, not just how Dissent or BudBuilt only see fit.
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- Thread starter
- #4
Wow. Thank you for your very thoughtful response. Definitely interested to hear the other side. Now if I could just get some sliders for my LX I'd be a happy camper!
benc
Supporting Vendor
Haven’t been here in a while and I apologize for the late reply!
@Taco2Cruiser and I talked for quite some time and ultimately we agreed to disagree. That being said I have much respect for bud built and their products.
As with all our products we try to do something different from the rest. I have well over 20 years of offroad experience in just about all types of terrain, in these years I have had the opportunity to try out several different designs and styles of armor on several different vehicles. While there are pros and cons to both designs I have found that more clearance has had more pros than a flat belly for my uses.
One thing I do a lot of is snow and for deep snow or mud the less drag you can have the better! This is the main reason we do not do flat belly. The contact patch with our system is much smaller than the bud built flat skids and in low traction situations under belly contact is not your friend!
Another item we discussed was the need for ventilation, IMO it is a necessity to have. We add louvers in high heat areas to stiffen the skid while forcing air where needed. Even most stock skids will have ventilation in the skids.
I will also say the reinforcements added in our skids are much beefier than any others I have seen.
Another thing we try to accommodate is service, I believe our skids are some of the best thought out when it comes to servicing the vehicle, even better than stock.
As with anything it all about having the right tool for the job and we understand this, we also are firm believers that there is a difference between well engineered and over engineered. our products are built for specific uses and needs, and we understand that they will not fit everyone’s need, We are happy to help find the best product for your needs weather it’s ours or not.
@Taco2Cruiser and I talked for quite some time and ultimately we agreed to disagree. That being said I have much respect for bud built and their products.
As with all our products we try to do something different from the rest. I have well over 20 years of offroad experience in just about all types of terrain, in these years I have had the opportunity to try out several different designs and styles of armor on several different vehicles. While there are pros and cons to both designs I have found that more clearance has had more pros than a flat belly for my uses.
One thing I do a lot of is snow and for deep snow or mud the less drag you can have the better! This is the main reason we do not do flat belly. The contact patch with our system is much smaller than the bud built flat skids and in low traction situations under belly contact is not your friend!
Another item we discussed was the need for ventilation, IMO it is a necessity to have. We add louvers in high heat areas to stiffen the skid while forcing air where needed. Even most stock skids will have ventilation in the skids.
I will also say the reinforcements added in our skids are much beefier than any others I have seen.
Another thing we try to accommodate is service, I believe our skids are some of the best thought out when it comes to servicing the vehicle, even better than stock.
As with anything it all about having the right tool for the job and we understand this, we also are firm believers that there is a difference between well engineered and over engineered. our products are built for specific uses and needs, and we understand that they will not fit everyone’s need, We are happy to help find the best product for your needs weather it’s ours or not.
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indycole
GOLD Star
Corona sales? If this means what I think it does, I think now is a good time to pay full price for things (and then some) if you have the means.
Why? If Dissent or Bud or BillyBob etc. have a link to donate to Red Cross or Salvation Army etc, then yeah, i agree...you pay the price + donate to a worthy cause.
But, why are we “expected” to pay FULL price and “then some” to a private for-profit company on a product on our car? Is Dissent or BudBuilt about to go out of biz because of Covid-19? Are they shutdown like the fish farmers (Or any other at risk small businesses) across USA that are closing shop because they have no one to sell to?
I don’t see a problem asking if there is a sale on a product at any point in time, Covid-19 or not. Why the shaming?
I rather give “then some” amount to charity or organization that can directly improve lives of folks who need it the most.
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indycole
GOLD Star
Some people are impacted the current situation more than others so I understand why folks may have a different perspective. I simply thought the original question was asked in poor form given both the macro situation as well as the dynamics that are most certainly weighing on this forum's vendors right now (demand whiplash, shipping delays, difficulties getting materials, employees who may have family members who are sick, out of work, or semi-quarantined because they work in acute healthcare, etc.). Also, even in good times our vendors are generally in a tough business.
One point of clarification, my "and then some" comment had as much to do with giving vendors more leeway in response times, shipping time, general support, buying an extra piece of kit, etc. more than a hand-out or donation. Just as an example, our neighborhood bar is having a very tough time right now due to the CA lockdown and they just started doing to-go orders. Even though we have a stocked bar at home, we're picking up to-go cocktails a few times as week, plus buying some beer from them, and today we added some cigars. Plus, a great tip. Perhaps an odd example but it reflects the spirit of my comment.
One point of clarification, my "and then some" comment had as much to do with giving vendors more leeway in response times, shipping time, general support, buying an extra piece of kit, etc. more than a hand-out or donation. Just as an example, our neighborhood bar is having a very tough time right now due to the CA lockdown and they just started doing to-go orders. Even though we have a stocked bar at home, we're picking up to-go cocktails a few times as week, plus buying some beer from them, and today we added some cigars. Plus, a great tip. Perhaps an odd example but it reflects the spirit of my comment.
There are several more manufacturers / fabs on the market with Aluminum skids available in the US.
Examples:
Asfir 4x4 (1/4 inch) - TOYOTA Land Cruiser 200 2009 - Skid Plates
N4 Offroad (8mm) - TOYOTA SERIE 200 (VDJ200,UZJ200,GRJ200,URJ200,...) - Créateur, fabricant d'accessoires et équipements 4x4 - N4 Offroad - protection et blindage - prefiltre gazole - sangle 4x4
Rival 4x4 (6mm) - TRUCK & SUV
Total Chaos (1/4 inch) - Skid Plate & Belly Pan | TOYOTA LAND CRUISER 200 SERIES 4WD 2008+ | TOTAL CHAOS FABRICATION
No personal experience with any of them. That is something we do get with @benc and Budbuilt, who have a strong supporting presence here.
Examples:
Asfir 4x4 (1/4 inch) - TOYOTA Land Cruiser 200 2009 - Skid Plates
N4 Offroad (8mm) - TOYOTA SERIE 200 (VDJ200,UZJ200,GRJ200,URJ200,...) - Créateur, fabricant d'accessoires et équipements 4x4 - N4 Offroad - protection et blindage - prefiltre gazole - sangle 4x4
Rival 4x4 (6mm) - TRUCK & SUV
Total Chaos (1/4 inch) - Skid Plate & Belly Pan | TOYOTA LAND CRUISER 200 SERIES 4WD 2008+ | TOTAL CHAOS FABRICATION
No personal experience with any of them. That is something we do get with @benc and Budbuilt, who have a strong supporting presence here.
