Diesels and autos for RTW

[gusgus]

G'day all. My first post and I hope you can help.

I'm planning a diesel engine/auto tranny/transfer case swap into an old truck, to make a small but comfortable round-the-world motorhome for my wife and I.

The vehicle is a C306 Volvo 6X6 cab chassis with portal axles, lockers in all three diffs and a 4.5 tonne GVM.

There will be NO electronics.

Because the highest available final drive ratio is 5.99, both the transmission and transfer case will have to be heavily overdriven to achieve the desired engine speed of around 2000rpm at 100kph.

The transfer case will likely be the Landrover Series from Ashcrofts in England ... 0.87 high range and 2.88 low.

I've followed with interest on here the inventive mating of the A440F with the 4BD1T and HE1TC, my preferred two engines at present.

Questions:

Does anyone know 'POSITIVELY/FOR CERTAIN/IT'S A FACT' if the HE1TC can operate normally without its computer, or be made to do so?

Can the TH200-4R (great overdrive) be used in a
4WD application to drive a transfer case?

With the TH700-R4, would the huge gap between first and second gear be very noticeable in this application?

When LONGBOW adapted an A440F to a 4BD1T, he said he used an Isuzu auto tranny bellhousing. Which one?

The Volvo runs Landrover 109 drum brakes. Are any of the disc brake kits mentioned on here approved by the authorities for use ONROAD and therefore insurable?

Hoping you can help me progress the research.

 

[69rambler]

I believe the 4HE1's will run, but will lack any dynamic timing ability (power will be down) without the electronics.

If you haven't seen this: http://www.4btswaps.com/forum/showthread.php?24437-Isuzu-4BD1T-and-4BD2T-conversion-parts-for-sale

Sorry, the pictures of the A440 and FJZ80 adapters are incomplete. Our website is almost finished so I haven't updated the 4BTswaps ad recently.

 

[gusgus]

Thanks for the quick response.

Saw your adaptors but still deciding which driveline package to settle on.

Regards the HE1TC, I would run it in the lower manual transmission state of tune anyway. But if it could indeed keep running indefinitely in 'limp home' mode after any computer crash, I'd be a lot more interested.

 

[longbow]

Gusgus,

I used the bell housing that came on the 4BD1T that is found on the Isuzu NPR box trucks. The tranny is a JR403E and is made by JATCO. It can be found on NPR trucks from the late 80's to the end of the 4BD2T engines in 97' here in the US.

It was a lot of work to build my own adapters and the reality is that the system that 69Rambler has designed is much better. If I do another one, I will be using his system.

Hope that helps and this sounds like a great project. Keep us posted.

Don

 

[69rambler]

The 4HE1 electronics only control the injection pump timing mechanism. I don't know to what extreme the timing is varied or specifically what happens when you run one without the wiring connected.

My only experience with the 4HE1 was purchasing a scattered one to measure up for future adapter use. After taking it apart and researching some of it's flaws I turned right around, sold it and moved on to other things.

I would choose the 4BD1T for reliability over the 4HE1.

 

[alberta mac]

I have only Landcruiser experience and am rather biased. If I were planning an adventure like you I no doubt would be driving a Landcruiser or at least motor and driveline, axles.
That said with this forum you could keep us all informed during your trek and also be in the loop of where to stop if a repair is needed.
I have had two break downs in 225,000km with 550,000km now on my truck. There is the reason why I don't want to drive anything else. In addition I drove that daily driver and wheeled with it for 10 years.
5 speed, 3b diesel and no electronics.
Maintenance over 12 years has mainly been an alternator rebuild, freeing up a seized e brake, injectors, glowplugs,belts,starter and I have done the brakes twice, thats all !

Just my 2 cents !

A.M.

 

[Dougal]

Is manual an option? The Isuzu MXA-6R gearbox is manual with 5th and 6th being overdrive. Factory fitted to some 4BD2T's and some 4H series engines.

Are Ashcrofts confident they can build a series transfer to handle the loads? I would be much happier with the LT230 which is proven in several heavy 6x6 builds but only goes to a 1:1.003 high ratio.

 

[gusgus]

I agree the 4BD1T would be a simpler, and probably safer bet than the 4HE1TC when driving through a Series transfer case. Really it was just hopeful thinking on my part.

So, let's assume I've settled the engine question.

In a perfect world I'd run the same make of engine/gearbox/transfer case ...but I need heaps of overdrive so perfect it aint.

Therefore, my next challenge is deciding on a non-electronic auto box that could simply bolt-up to the engine.

From what I can learn, that combination wasn't offered here in Australia. However, this helpful bloke from some islands off the east coast (hello Dougal) pointed-out that he thought American 4BD1T's were offered with Jatco auto boxes and the 4BD2T's with Aisin autos.

I heard what you said Longbow about using an adapter from 69rambler.

However, going on swaps by yourself and Astr I couldn't help wondering if the bellhousing from an Aisin box could be simply adapted to say an A440F. Wouldn't it be lovely if it just bolted to the rear of the Aisin bellhousing in place of the newer box.

The next challenge would be mating the auto to a Series HRTC. I believe Advance Adaptors make/made such a unit, at least for American top loader manual gearboxes, but maybe not autos.

Are those units still available; if not does 69rambler do one, or could do one on request?

As for the strength of the Series transfer case, Dave Ashcroft says they're commoinly run behind Rover V8's without problems, and Teriann at Expedition Land Rover says she's put around 300ft/lbs of V8 torque through hers for over a decade with no trouble. Seeing as the Isuzu produces around 240ft/lbs and would be assisted by an auto transmission and geriatric driver, I'm hopeful.

 

[gusgus]

By the way, manual transmission is not an option.

Professionally I shift 18 cogs in B-doubles, but not when you're tootling along seeing the world.

I'd be keeping the Volvo LHD to suit most of the countries we'd be travelling, and auto allows much more time for concentration on the important things like staying alive.

 

[gusgus]

As they say, "an afterthought is better than no thought at all".

Just looking through my photo files before bed and spotted a Toyota 14BT.

Does anyone know if the 14BT or 15BT will bolt straight up to an A440F.

Then I'd just need one adapter ... transmission to Series transfer case.

Someone mentioned the B engines to me as a possibilty ages ago, and I'd forgotten all about them.

 

[Dougal]

As for the strength of the Series transfer case, Dave Ashcroft says they're commoinly run behind Rover V8's without problems, and Teriann at Expedition Land Rover says she's put around 300ft/lbs of V8 torque through hers for over a decade with no trouble. Seeing as the Isuzu produces around 240ft/lbs and would be assisted by an auto transmission and geriatric driver, I'm hopeful.

The main problem is torque pulses. The Isuzu 4BD1T eats gearboxes which hold up fine behind V8's and V12's with more torque.
By turning screws you can turn the stock 240ft-lb into 400 ft-lb. By adding an intercooler and a better turbo and turning those screws some more you can double the stock torque.
But that's mainly the gearbox concern, the transferbox is mainly concerned with how much weight it's shifting. How do people get on heavy towing with series TC's?

I know it'll be expensive, but have you looked at the late 90's Isuzu NPS 4x4 drivetrain? There may be a factory 4HE1/auto/tc setup intended to run similar axle ratios to your volvos.

 

[longbow]

The 14BT and 15BT are great engines and I'm sure that there must be an auto box configuration out there for one of those. Although parts availability here in the states is really a pain, but over there it should be much better. Hopefully there is a configuration with the A442 that was manual valve bodied like the A440. All of our A442's were electronically controlled here in the states, but non-USA spec. stuff got the manual ones. That would be what I would look for as the A440 torque converter is not as efficient a design as the later one used on the A442 and the A442 tends to stay cooler on mountain grades and towing because of this.

Don

 

[Dougal]

Early 80 series 1HD-T got the fully hydraulic Aisin box. A mate has one.

 

[gusgus]

Thanks specifically Dougal and Longbow for all your input so far.

You're comment Dougal regarding the Series transfer case strength has only increased doubts I've long held about its potential durability behind a torquey four cylinder diesel. Anything LR really!

A year and half planning so far for this project is beginning to do my head in. A heavily overdriven driveline package from the one maker is what I want, but it doesn't exist and I simply don't know what's out there. I feel like I'm going round in circles.

The Series was chosen because as far as I could find out, it was the only right-sided TC with aligned front and rear outlets that came with an overdriven high range.

Ruling it out, is there a 'bullet proof' bolt-on overdrive ... what about Gear Vendors?

However, even if that works, my understanding is they only mate to particular U.S transfer cases.

Are any of those configured the right way and do they have suitable low range gearing?

If the answer to everything happened to be 'yes', I'd probably consider running a TH700R4 behind
whatever engine I finally settle on.

 

[Dougal]

Honestly, you're up for custom adapters somewhere in the line. No-one makes a bolt together set that'll do your job.
The Landrover LT230 is bulletproof. Have you asked Ashcroft if an overdrive gearset is possible in high range? It would be expensive, but I think any option would be.

 

[cicak]

Gusgus I believe you are an ozzie.

Lookup David Metcalfe in QLD extreme4x4 he will be able to assist you with disc conversion advice he has a 6x6 frame sitting somewhere.

look at www.real4x4forums.com that is the home of pinz's and volvo's. on FB try https://www.facebook.com/groups/38340479905/
"VOLVO C303 and TGB" group.

I would have thought a A440F would work with an additional overdrive on it.

Also try www.geckoadventure.net/ga3-vovlo.htm for an idea of what you are up for.

Be warned a Volvo axle is only good for 206Nm of torque. And they do snap.

YOu can get portals made up I will try and find more I am not sure of you can slot in the C303 portals (high speed) into all 6 of the 6x6 portals. I have a pair of 5.99's:1 C&P's made up by a guy called JEZ in the UK and installed.

Make the rear out of alloy to make it light.


also I think marks have disc brakes for portals. but I think you have to start with NISSAN DIFFS. Losing your Portal axles would not be good.

Also the 5 speed gearbox you have you are going to toss it? How much to sell it? I am happy to transport it to Malaysia.

The moderators will move this thread to the Volvo area.

 

[gusgus]

Ashcroft say they don't do the LT230 in overdrive high range.

I'll see what Gear Vendors can offer.

Thanks Cicak for the lead on Dave Metcalf.

I think your torque warning on the Volvo axles is a little askew. You believe they're only rated to 205Nm ... yet the standard engine produces 224Nm @ 2500rpm.

I haven't yet purchased a C306 because I first want to see if the gearing can be sorted for world touring.

By the way, how's the quality of the C&P's from Jez.

 

[Dougal]

Yes I know Ashcrofts don't have any off-the-shelf overdrive gearsets. But they'll know if it's possible to fit one if it were custom made.

 

[gusgus]

I'll ask, but I'm pretty sure I read somewhere there's not enough space in the case to accommodate a larger gear.

 

[Dougal]

So how unique are the volvo diff heads? Is it possible to graft a more common diff head in?