Dead Battery(s)...draw?

[VTCruiser]

I ticed recelty the 60 has been cranking slower especially in the morning. I flew home for a long weekend (5 days) and intentionally left the batteries connected. Sure enough, dead as a rock when i tried to start it this morning.

It has to be the my deck that is drawing the power, it is the only thing I have added. To revisit how it is wired: I wired in solar equalizer and took 12v off the low side battery to a 6 gang fuse panel that the deck is wired to, i.e. not hook up to the key switch.

I assumed this was fine since the deck has an "off" mode which i assumed actually meant off. In this mode there is no clock on the display, nothing.

Questions:
- Do you think the deck in "off" mode can draw enough power to kill the battery?
- Is there a way to check for other draws?
- If the deck is the only draw i suppose the best thing to do would be to wire in another switch before the fuse block. any other suggestions? ideas?

TIA

 

[Stone]

Open your Solar Converter and make sure that the fuses have not blown. As previously discussed, the Converter has to be hooked up and taken off in an exact sequence, otherwise one of the fuses blows. The LED still lights up and you still have 12v power because you are drawing from the lowside pole, but the Converter is no longer equalizing and eventually your lowside battery is dead.

That would be my first guess as there is really not enough draw from your radio's clock to draw down the batteries in 5 days if the Solar Converter is doing its job. I have left my truck for a few days with the car alarm on and I also have a CD player...and it started up perfectly when I got back. If the fuses in the Solar Converter are fine and the unit is hooked up properly, then you might be looking at a larger draw somewhere else or possibly issues with your batteries. Also, does your alternator work well and the charge is reaching the batteries? My batteries (Interstate Workaholics) today produce the exact same voltmeter readings as the day I installed them with the Solar Converter last December.

Good luck, keep us posted.

 

[Greg_B]

Buy yourself a multi-meter....

Questions:

1) Are the batteries equal: Same model, same purshase date, same everything. Do they have the same sitting voltage?

2) Is one battery dead (the one you have your power tapped to), and the other still charged?

3) Do you have the dual LED unit, and what are the LED's saying?

Your answer to these questions may lead you to the answer.

If your batteries are not equal, the equalizer WILL do what it is designed to do, and end up drawing down the good battery trying to maintain the poor one. One morning both will be below the required voltage to start. I have two mismatched batteries in my BJ42 right now, and I can not use the Solar Converter in equalize mode, as the truck sits for extended periods. Both batteries hold a charge otherwise.

If one battery is dead, then the Converter is not working (likely popped fuse) and has not been for some time. If this is the case, ensure you have the converter hooked up correctly. 1) Black goes to lowside battery negative pole (Not frame ground). 2) Red goes to highside positive battery pole. It is now in 24V to 12V convert mode. Check the white wire lead. Is it showing 1/2 the total voltage going in? 3) If the white wire is extended to the lowside positive battery pole and it is now in load balance mode.

If you hook up, or unhook the converter/balancer in the wrong sequence, you WILL pop one of the internal circut board protection fuses. If you have it hooked up in load balance mode and someone takes off the battery ground to do some electrical work on the truck you WILL pop one of the protection fuses. The converter/balancer needs to be taken out of the system before you take the truck ground off.

Hook up is: 1) Black, Red, White. (white to your 12V needs in convert mode) (white to the lowside positive pole if using to load Balance).

Unhook is: White, Red, Black.

The simplist hookup for this converter is simply to convert 24V to 12V (or 12V to 24V). That said, for minor power draws (regular stereo, alarm, CD, etc) I've had mine hook up in load balance mode and it's been working great.

When I was daily driving my BJ42 it was in load balance mode as well, as even with new batteries/cables/connectors there was a charging and standing difference with the batteries. I could never track down why, so hooked it up to load balance and was off to the races. The truck sits now, so I've pilphered those new batteries for the BJ74, and put the mismatched ones in the BJ42.

If I was building an expedition rig with large 12V power demands, I would do as has been suggested by others, and run an isolated third battery for my power needs, leaving the two starting batteries unmolested, and use the Solar to simply load balance the starting batteries, and another to feed the isolated battery.

hth's

gb

 

[VTCruiser]

Some clarifictions:

- The batteries are different brands (low side: toyota, High side: intersate workaholic) but are both good. The interstate is brand new and the toyota was load tested when i first go the truck running.

- I am getting good charge from the alternator, 28v+.

- I have NOT been usng the deck at all since installed since i have no speakers. It has been turned on and then turned off maybe 3 times total.

- The equilizer was installed (in the proper sequence) at the same time the fuse block was a few days before the deck was put in. After it was installed, the green LED was on and remained on since suggesting proper function. The deck was simply wired to fuse block already in place. I suppose the shop that put in the deck could have disconnected the ground and blown the EQ's fuse.


I will check the fuses in the equilizer. From what I can see, both LEDs are off.

For future reference, the possitive 24V must be disconnected before the ground is, correct?

PS: I have a mutimeter but it is at home in VT

 

[Greg_B]

Some clarifictions:

- The batteries are different brands (low side: toyota, High side: intersate workaholic) but are both good. The interstate is brand new and the toyota was load tested when i first go the truck running.

Does not matter. Hook it up in 24V to 12V if you are not using the same brand, same spec, same same same...

- The equilizer was installed (in the proper sequence) at the same time the fuse block was a few days before the deck was put in. After it was installed, the green LED was on and remained on since suggesting proper function.

The green LED simply says the circut board is happy. It is not an indication of fuse heath. If you have the model with the red LED (as well as the green LED) the red LED will light up when it is hooked up in load balance mode and the batteries go 5% off the trimmed middle value.

The deck was simply wired to fuse block already in place. I suppose the shop that put in the deck could have disconnected the ground and blown the EQ's fuse.

I would suggest this is exactly what happened.

For future reference, the positive 24V must be disconnected before the ground is, correct?

The positive 12V, then the 24V, then ground...yes. And reverse that when hooking it up: ground, 24V positive, then 12V positive.

I suggest you take the 12V load balance line off, and simply run this as a 24V to 12V converter as there are two different batteries. Run the 12V converted white line to the fuse strip, direct from the converter.

hth's

gb

 

[VTCruiser]

UPDATE: The 15A fuse in the Equilizer was blown, i guess they did blow it when the deck was installed(?)

I replaced it with a spare i had and both the green and red LEDs are on....When should the red one go off?

 

[Greg_B]

UPDATE: The 15A fuse in the Equilizer was blown, i guess they did blow it when the deck was installed(?)

Yes, likely. Most shops have a standard policy for the installer to take the ground off.

I replaced it with a spare i had and both the green and red LEDs are on....When should the red one go off?

The red LED will go off when the batteries are within 5% of each other. I've yet to run the green and red LED's into my cab, so I have a visual at all times.

Again, if you are running two different batteries I suggest not going with load balance mode. You may well wake up one day and BOTH batteries are low, as the system was doing what is it designed to do.

hth's

gb

 

[VTCruiser]

Again, if you are running two different batteries I suggest not going with load balance mode. You may well wake up one day and BOTH batteries are low, as the system was doing what is it designed to do.

this is probably the "draw" then, i will rewire to converter mode as soon as I have a chance....

thanks

 

[Stone]

The positive 24V, then the 12V, then ground...yes. And reverse that when hooking it up: ground, 24V positive, then 12V positive.

Oops...you mean the 12v first, then the 24v second, and lastly the negative when disconnecting, Greg...not to further confuse the issue.

Next time you get any work done to your vehicle, just disconnect the Converter altogether before the "installers" get their hands on your vehicle. Cheers.

 

[VTCruiser]

ITS ALIVE! Just jumped it, its out side charging as I type. I rewired the Converter and green LED is happy. We'll see how it goes, I suspect it will be the end of my power problems...

I didn't realize the EQ would be so sensitive to battery type....good to know, thanks again guys, life savers.

Next time you get any work done to your vehicle, just disconnect the Converter altogether before the "installers" get their hands on your vehicle. Cheers.

sure will, the bastids....

 

[VTCruiser]

ITS DEAD!

Went out to start it today and got only a couple turn overs and a "click".

It's not the radio, I pulled the fuse on the radio before i jumped it last and haven't put it back in since.

I also rewired the Converter, here's how its currently hooked up: Black>12v neg/ground, Red>24V pos, White> Fuse block. Green LED is ON, red is OFF.

I'm led to believe its is still the converter, the only addition since it was running great. Should the black me hooked up to the 24V neg? should it matter?

What else could be causing the draw?!? starting to drive me nuts...

 

[Stickboy]

for what it's worth, mine is hooked up like the first photo. For straight conversion hook up like the 2nd photo. I see a .3a draw across my shunt at the low side negative terminal whenever the rig is off. This to my belief is the converter jiggling little electrons across the two and equalizing them. I originally had the SC hooked up in convert mode but it'll dump you if you exceed 20a.

my .02. i'll think about this more and write again tonight....

 

[VTCruiser]

UPDATE:

I disconnected the converter just to be safe and had the batteries tested. The old (low side) battery appeared to have a bad cell so while i had the rig running (jump started again) i went ahead and bought a new battery. Works like a charm so far but i haven't hooked the converter or the radio up again yet, i figure i will give it a little while to isolate the problem if a bad battery wasn't the only problem. Meanwhile, i am having the old battery tested more thoroughly so we will see how that turns out. Hopefully is was just coincidence that the old battery quit when i installed the converter etc and i will soon be able to hook them back up and everything will be fine.

gotta love electrogremlins.....

time to pick up the old battery and get the verdict, lets see if it will start this time...

My converter was hooked up just like the second pic, so i don't think it is the problem.

 

[Stone]

VT: To save yourself more trouble in the future, I highly recommend that you just start out with TWO fresh batteries. That way, you know that both batteries are absolutely equal. If one is weaker than the other, the converter will continue to shunt current to the weaker battery and draw down the good battery. Trust me, when you start out this way, the system works beautifully. Anyway, you have already bought one new one...so just buy a matching battery and save the good old one as a spare to jump-start, etc.

And yes, ALL leads from the Solar Converter must be hooked up to the batteries...including the Black (gournd) lead. You need to hook that up to the negative terminal of the low-side battery, even though intuition tells you that you should be able to just ground it to chassis. It has something to do with the way the converter senses the individual battery current.

Good luck.

 

[Stone]

My converter was hooked up just like the second pic, so i don't think it is the problem.

Actually, if what you wrote in the first post is correct, then no, you don't have the Solar Converter hooked up as a step-down converter as shown in the second diagram. Pulling 12v out of the low-side battery's positive terminal means that you should have all three of your Solar Converter's leads hooked up to the batteries in Load Balance mode as indicated in the first diagram. If you follow the second diagram, Step-Down convertion means that you hook up the ground and red leads of the converter, the converter senses the 24v on the red lead and cuts it in half and sends 12v to the white lead. The white lead then goes directly to your gang fusebox and is good for up to 20A.

It's too bad that you're not just around the corner...I'd test and hook it up for you to save you all the heartaches.

It has to be the my deck that is drawing the power, it is the only thing I have added. To revisit how it is wired: I wired in solar equalizer and took 12v off the low side battery to a 6 gang fuse panel that the deck is wired to, i.e. not hook up to the key switch.

 

[VTCruiser]

Stone - since the first post i took Greg's advise and changed from equalizing mode to step down due to the two different batteries, and then most recently disconnected it all together. So currently the white lead goes to the fuse block, the red to the 24v pos and black to the low side neg, as illustrated in the second pic.

I would have started with two fresh but didn't have the cash at the time. At the start, both batteries were load tested. One was bad and was replaced, the other was good so i kept it, only to have it recently quit.... dual optimas are in my future, eventually.

The bad battery seemed to be the problem, it would hardly take any charge. So, tomorrow I will install my speakers, and reconnect the converter and radio and hopefully have music, finally!!

 

[Stone]

Good luck, keep us posted.