Cold Weather Starter Switch Problems?

[brucepirger]

I have an 97 Collectors Edition...140,000 miles, nicest thing I have ever owned.

A few times lately I'd turn the key, and nothign would happen. All the dashlights would come on, all seemed fine, battery is new, and no starter. I'd relase the start position, do it again, and vroom.

One morning it was about 5 degrees and the starter got "stuck" cranking. Popped th ehood, removed the battery cable, and banged on the solenoid/starter with a hammer. That seemed to disengage the starter, and it was fine for the next few days until I replaced the whole starter/solenoid assembly with a reman unit.

Now, the other morning, about 10 degrees outside, I trun the key....and nothing. Al the jiggling, the wiggling, etc...nothing. Try park and neutral, nothing. Ignition 7.5A fuse is fine. After a couple of hours (took the kids to their party in the 87 FJ60), I came back and the truck started fine!

Now, this morning, about 15 last night, nothing. So I put an electric heater in the cruiser...and after warming up the cabin a couple of hours, it has started.

So, I am thinking that the cold is making some "hairy edge" switch fail.

Is this likely the ignition switch? Are there any other relays or suspects between that switch and the solenoid engagement wire?

Thanks!

 

[RavenTai]

do you still have your oriiginal starter? all it needed was new contacts, but is is probably already gone as a core..

 

[Gold Finger]

Is it possible that the transmission Neutral and Park sensor switch is not connecting properly and needs adjusting? Just a wild guess.

 

[brucepirger]

I tried both positions....I'd think, but don't know, it unlikley that both positions would fail together?

 

[brucepirger]

Put in a new switch cable assembly, -4 today, and still no start. There is no command to the solenoid to start, so somehow it is being stopped. The park/neutral switch is the next suspect to go and replace. This is getting expensive, and irritating. Does anyone know were that switch is? Any other ideas? Is there anything else between the switch to START and the solenoid, i.e. another relay someplace?

Thanks.

 

[RavenTai]

IIRC the P/N switch is on the side of the transmission, where the shifter goes in.

Do you have the EWD? With it you could bypass the park neutral switch for troubleshooting. If not I can get you the page from the 96 LX EWD it Should be the same as your 97 LC

 

[Rookie2]

You might try hitting the suspect area with a blow dryer, then try to start. If no start, keep going though the different items until you find out which one is being affected by the cold.


Rookie2

 

[Jomama]

I'm on my second winter with this problem.. only happens when its wet or cold out.. Could take 5 minutes, could take 2hrs...

(did the starter contacts, alt is still giving me appropirate voltage)

Just got bad the last week.. I was planning to do the battery wire set to see if its a ground prob..


Is there a actual "Ignition switch" in a 93 FZJ??? If so? Location ? Part#?

 

[brucepirger]

Well, I wired a jumper wire from the start command to the solenoid up near the battery, so when it happens, I can easily start by popping the hood, and touching the wire to the battery. I suspect it has to be the switch...broken wires stay broken....grounds could come free in the cold from contraction? Maybe.

I have also noticed that a few months ago, the little light around the D on the dashboard (drive) stopped lighting...and then it came back. So, that makes me suspect even more the position sensor/switch. It cost $217 for the part....I want to make sure. It isn't easy to reach the switch when lying on the ground in the snow and being 0 outside. At 20 degrees, it seems to work OK. I tried to heat it up with a torch, but I was afraid of burning/melthing everything else nearby. Blow dryer or heat gun is a good idea. Wish it was easier to reach up and pull off the connector to jumper it by. I will have to do that next.

Thanks folks. Jomama....sound slike you have the same problem...I'll let you know if I find the jumper to fix it. Otherwise, I will have to run new wire from the ignition switch to the P/N switch, and from the P/N to the start command.

I did see the wiring diagram...nothing else but the P/N switch i nthe loop from the ignition switch to the starter.

 

[Jomama]

Where is the actual "Ignition Switch"?

Part number?




Its never helped me to fiddle with the Gear Selector, and I've tried it every time (at least its never started directly after shifting it back and forth a few times).

Its typically acted up when its wet out.. Its not really cold here now.. but its been warm enough for the snow to probably be on the wet side...

 

[Rookie2]

Again, I believe there is a main starter relay that you could try to do the blow dryer thing on just to eliminate that as a possibility. I mentioned it in another thread when Jomama was working through this problem.., may not be it, but it's worth a check. Keep us posted on what you find out.


Rookie2

 

[RavenTai]

The ignition switch is behind the key, where else would it be? Dan can get you the part #, although it looks like part of the dash, it is actually mounted to the coloum on my 96. don’t know about the 93,


The "D" light coming and going is common and is the bulb, people have been able to get them to come to life by smacking the dash. You may notice it is dimmer than the rest of the gear position lights as it spends the most time on.

 

[brucepirger]

rookie2....do you know where this relay may be? According to the wire diagrams I saw at the shop, there is no relay, rather a wire from the ignition switch to the P/N safety switch, then to the solenoid.

The ignition switch is at the bottom of the lock cylinder...and on the 97, it is mounted up under the dash...as the key is not on the column. I didn't put the new one in, so I didn't actually see it all apart. Too cold working outside in 0 degree weather. It is part of a harness, and I think it was about $120. And didn't fix my problem.

Now that it has been in the 20's, the problem is gone. I am oging to get a heat gun...hopefully I can pinpoint it.

Thanks again to all.

 

[RavenTai]

rookie2....do you know where this relay may be? According to the wire diagrams I saw at the shop, there is no relay, rather a wire from the ignition switch to the P/N safety switch, then to the solenoid.

The ignition switch is at the bottom of the lock cylinder...and on the 97, it is mounted up under the dash...as the key is not on the column.

I think R2 is talking about the main solenoid/relay on the starter, as for the key/switch your 97 will be the same as a 96, it looks like it is in the dash from the outside but that whole assy is part of the column

as you said there is not much to the LC starting system, ignition switch->P/N switch -> starter, my LX has a starter cutout relay controled by the alarm, I dont think the LC has that.

 

[Beowulf]

... my LX has a starter cutout relay controled by the alarm,

Good point Raven, it could be alarm related.

-B-

 

[allen_ajones]

http://www.misterfixit.com/baddiode.htm

 

[Kalawang]

I've had that problem, but without the cold. I'm in a tropical country. Turned out that a relay on my alarm, a clifford, had been about to give up the ghost and needed replacement. My alarm won't let the car start and will kill the engine if it goes off.


Kalawang

 

[IdahoDoug]

Bruce,

You're chasing your tail unless you establish something when it won't start. Is the starter giving out a loud click, or is it not? If so, you simply need contacts in the starter itself. If not, I'm all ears because this just happened to me also

DougM

 

[Jomama]

Did you figure out your prob IdahoDoug??

 

[IdahoDoug]

Did not. I posted this on another forum (80sCool) and a guy replied with what looks like an excellent plan to install a relay and get direct hot power to the starter from the battery. It's his contention that the starter's power supply goes through the ignition switch first which reduces the power and makes that big starter plunger harder to move. I'm ordering a bunch of stuff from Cdan tomorrow and will be ordering a contact/plunger kit as well. Then I'll dig into it all and check things over and likely install a new plunger and contacts while I'm in there.

I believe I posted my issue a week or so ago here, but basically upon key turned to starter position I got no "clack" from the starter indicating the plunger had slammed against the contacts. Just a little relay click under the dash and normal dash lights. So, I must have the same issue as you guys though neither of you has indicated if you're hearing the starter itself clack (I'm using clack as its a big metallic sound vs a little relay click) when you get your nostarts. I've heard that sound before when my contacts were going bad - they'd hit but the starter wouldn't turn. This is different and indicates the plunger is either sticking or not getting enough power to move. What the wiring mod proposes to do is to give the plunger a direct shot of hot power by using the incoming power from the ignition switch to power a relay that feeds the plunger a big wire that'll throw it. So the incoming power that WAS engaging the plunger becomes a signal for the relay to close and gives it full battery voltage.

I'll let ya know.

DougM