Cold air intake (from walmart)

[SUMOTOY]

Certainly deserves the macGuyver award for ingenuity. The problem I've encountered with cold air intakes on forced induction motors is that the increase in negative pressure at the turbo tends to negate the lower temp = no gain. The longer you route that intake hose, the more negative pressure you have at the turbo inlet, which means the turbo works harder to get back to Po (atmospheric) before making boost.

I've done quite a few intake air on turbo cars and find on the dyno that the best measurable result is make a ram air duct to get fresh air to the shortest inlet you can make. This has the side benefit of allowing water to go somewhere 'else', and doesn't cause MAF readings to be ram air affected.

A couple suggetions regardless... First, I'd insulate around that can. Second, drill a couple of water release holes in the bottom of ithe can. Third, hook a vacuum guage up to the inlet side of the turbo and take a measure (on and off boost) with the hose hooked up, then not. Less vacuum would be your target at the turbo inlet. Then lastly, I might do a comparo of a stock filter vs that K&N in terms of flow and restriction. I find K&N filters to usually be less of a gain than most think.

HTH

Scott Justusson

 

[beaufort-fj60]

forget that cookie jar, get some liquid nitrogen, a small radiator, and macGuyver a "really" cold air inection system.

 

[gnx7]

Very cool Dusty (pun intended).

Now get your turbo creation setup with something that can adjust the air/fuel mix and onto a dyno. I want to see what kind of reliable power your turbo creation is capable of on 91 octane.

 

[NorCalSam]

Very Macgyver-ish...

Ditto

 

[Dusty]

Dan
this set up would suck up water quick if you didn't remember to disable it. Wana trade for your snorkle?

sumotoy
I don't know if this thing will make any diff or not. If not it comes off. today it was about 100' here in southern co. my jar got too hot to touch. I need to wrap it. I don't want any restrictions but my boost gauge reads the same vacume. If I see the same vacume at idle arn't I ok? I honestly don't like K&N filters and used them on my turbo build cause they were so available.

gnx7
fuel management is important and I will get to it but right now I need to get my truck higher

 

[SUMOTOY]

Dan
this set up would suck up water quick if you didn't remember to disable it. Wana trade for your snorkle?

sumotoy
I don't know if this thing will make any diff or not. If not it comes off. today it was about 100' here in southern co. my jar got too hot to touch. I need to wrap it. I don't want any restrictions but my boost gauge reads the same vacume. If I see the same vacume at idle arn't I ok? I honestly don't like K&N filters and used them on my turbo build cause they were so available.

Dusty:
Engine vacuum is not what you are looking for. You want to see and compare the vacuum before the turbo (at the turbo inlet), not in the intake manifold. Before the turbo will be a lot less vacuum than intake manifold, in fact you want it as close to Po (atmospheric) as possible. Ram air designs try to get above Po, but I find this tends to really throw off the MAF unless it's placed after the turbo.

The reason for wanting low vacuum is that a turbo that is pressurizing starting with the inlet at atmospheric pressure is by definition more efficient. Pressure Ratio is ideally defined as Boost Pressure(Pb) + Atmospheric Pressure(Po)/Atmospheric Pressure(Po). In practical applicatoins, if you have high vacuum at the turbo inlet, you have effectively increased your altitude = Turbo compressor efficiency goes down. Why most turbo race cars (F1 etc) use no air filter or ducting pipe, they plant a huge velocity stack (no filter) at the end of the turbo and stick it in the stream of fresh ducted air (usually not pointed upstream either). Trick, the guy that reduces negative pressure at the turbo inlet, wins, all else being equal.

It might be interesting to see the results of how these 'water snorkels' do as well, I'm pretty convinced they make engines work harder. I'm a big fan of getting (ram air) cold fresh air to a short airbox snout, without actually sealing that connection. For testing your setup (or any cold air setup for that matter) you only need two simple measures - pressure (vacuum) and temps.

I'd also get some water holes in the bottom of that air-can. Just about every production airbox has water holes 'just in case'. JCW sells a really good Mylar faced insulation in big sheets, and there's plenty left over to work in other places on the motor. I'd also seriously consider hood vents, turbos and superchargers tend to really increase underhood temps. Since I have a leather interior and a engine driven fan, I don't take cascading water over an 80 hood very seriously. I'd love to see someone elses pictures though!

Dusty, I don't at all want to take away a great MacGuyver you accomplished here. That said, there are a lot of ways to address heat in an turbo/supercharged 80 that could prove more fruitful. Evaluating changes by heat (/pressure) measures moves a MacGuyver into the engineering department.

HTH

Scott Justusson

 

[reffug]

The intake is a bit low. Do excercise caution when you get around water.

Dats what I was thinking.......

I would flood that thing first time out on the trail with the stuff I drive in but if it works for you then great.

 

[Dusty]

thanks scott

Last night I unplugged my pcv valve that fits in nipple on my intake tubing about 1 foot downstream from my air fillter and about a foot upsteam from my turbo inlet. I plugged my boost gauge into that nipple and played with the truck at diff rpms. the gauge stayed right at zero the whole time never dipping into the vaccume. However the gauge is in mmhg which isn't nearly as sensitive as mmh2o. This test may have been useless.

I must admit it gets hot under my hood even with all my turbo and downpipe wraps and heat shield. The intercooler is impressive. the intake pipe to the intercooler is so hot after a drive in the sun that I cant touch it while the intercooler discharge pipe will be just slightly warm. However if I sit the truck idling in the sun with the ac on the whole intercooler gets toasty but less so on the discharge pipe. I have a digital water gauge and yesterday it was 100' outside. with ac full blast while sitting for several minutes with car in drive behind a wreck in town my gauge read 202'. I have a brand new oe tstat and a 1 year old new blue oe fan coupler. I also have an oil cooler. as soon as I get this truck moving it cools fast.

 

[SUMOTOY]

thanks scott

Last night I unplugged my pcv valve that fits in nipple on my intake tubing about 1 foot downstream from my air fillter and about a foot upsteam from my turbo inlet. I plugged my boost gauge into that nipple and played with the truck at diff rpms. the gauge stayed right at zero the whole time never dipping into the vaccume. However the gauge is in mmhg which isn't nearly as sensitive as mmh2o. This test may have been useless.

I must admit it gets hot under my hood even with all my turbo and downpipe wraps and heat shield. The intercooler is impressive. the intake pipe to the intercooler is so hot after a drive in the sun that I cant touch it while the intercooler discharge pipe will be just slightly warm. However if I sit the truck idling in the sun with the ac on the whole intercooler gets toasty but less so on the discharge pipe. I have a digital water gauge and yesterday it was 100' outside. with ac full blast while sitting for several minutes with car in drive behind a wreck in town my gauge read 202'. I have a brand new oe tstat and a 1 year old new blue oe fan coupler. I also have an oil cooler. as soon as I get this truck moving it cools fast.

You need to use a very accurate guage, like the big sun one you can buy at the autoparts store, or (the one I personally like to use - it's extremely accurate and calibrated to aviation spec) one out of a helicopter (man does that puppy spin under boost). A stock boost guage isn't going to measure the vacuum very well. I know on the vdo boost guages I use, 0psig in chicago and in Denver is not noticeable. 14.7psia vs 12.4psia is less than a needle width on a vdo guage. Even the 2 5/8 water filled guage on my old 4R turbo barely showed a difference.

Intercoolers are nice, but they also add lag. What is your max boost Dusty? You can also get actual IC efficiency numbers wtih a 2 temps and 2 pressures (pre and post IC). Andial (actually Davtron) makes a really good IC temp guage I use quite often It gives a 3 single readings in a really small guage - IC in, IC out, IC differential. For low boost applications, you need to size the IC pretty carefully and watch your bends and pipe length to fully realize the gains. Since I'm after max torque and throttle response at low rpm at 6-7psi boost, my desire for IC isn't high at all. Are you using a bypass valve on the turbo?

Scott Justusson
94 Supercharged

 

[SUMOTOY]

Dats what I was thinking.......

I would flood that thing first time out on the trail with the stuff I drive in but if it works for you then great.

On my truck, where dusty has his intake, it would be 26inches from the ground. From his pics it would appear he's down about 6inches from the stock intake side. My claim is if you would flood a 26in snorkel in reality, it would probably flood the stocker too.

I've done a lot of searching on 'water crossing' on this forum. Maybe a handful of guys that do it with 80's, and a couple even recommended not after they did. I think anyone taking an 80 into high water is absolutely taking on high risk. First, the fan becomes a prop, so maybe a tarp over the front end. Second, water up the side of doors is fine for a dedicated ORV, but I've done the 'drying out and disinfect' of my 4R after a deep water crossing, you are speaking of removing carpet minimum, leather? forgettit. Third, if you are wheeling with Dusty in 26 inches of water, and you think your 32 is 'better', I'm not thinking either one of you is fine.

I've also looked many times at where toyota places that ECU, it's high in the dash, but it's also really close to the HVAC system, which when flooded with water, will start puking water right at that ECU.

Lastly, Dusty's days of forging water with a turbo are probably long over. Hot turbos (like 1600F) turbos don't like to see water baths without replacement.

I salute the hardcore's that take their 80 into water over the hood. I personally think that's about the most expensive risk one could take with that truck. Risking so much, you could probably buy a dedicated mudder jeep with just one uh-oh.

Snorkels are interesting, but to bolt one of those on for less than 5% of offroading sounds a bit over the top (pun intended). I understand the dust argument for them, but not water crossings or for boost engines. Dan read this!

Not picking on anyone, just question how hardcore a swimmer an 80 really is or was designed to be.

Scott Justusson
Waterless 80 supercharged

 

[Dusty]

Scott
my intercooling ducting is 2.25" and every bend is a mandrel. My remote wastegate is has a 6lb boost spring and that is where it usually boosts untill I get it into mid 4000rpm's on a steep grade where boost is approaching 8psi. (creep?)

So I pulled my "cold air intake" yesterday morning after a few days of real world testing. I have concluded that my truck is running hotter with the my cold air set up-it would get to 203' when at lights which isn't that hot but is 5' hotter than it would get without the cold air set up (temps outside being the same). on the highway it wasn't any cooler either. this was even with header foil wrapping around the jar. The truck didn't seem as responsive on the street either.

I havn't given up on heat control. I removed the whether strip at the back of the hood and spent a couple hours wrapping the rest of my underhood intercooler ducting in header wrap and foil. then I better wrapped the turbo and downpipe. so there

Anyone want a "hot air intake" for cheap? perhaps some of you have cruisers that runs too cold?

 

[SUMOTOY]

Scott
my intercooling ducting is 2.25" and every bend is a mandrel. My remote wastegate is has a 6lb boost spring and that is where it usually boosts untill I get it into mid 4000rpm's on a steep grade where boost is approaching 8psi. (creep?)

So I pulled my "cold air intake" yesterday morning after a few days of real world testing. I have concluded that my truck is running hotter with the my cold air set up-it would get to 203' when at lights which isn't that hot but is 5' hotter than it would get without the cold air set up (temps outside being the same). on the highway it wasn't any cooler either. this was even with header foil wrapping around the jar. The truck didn't seem as responsive on the street either.

I havn't given up on heat control. I removed the whether strip at the back of the hood and spent a couple hours wrapping the rest of my underhood intercooler ducting in header wrap and foil. then I better wrapped the turbo and downpipe. so there

Anyone want a "hot air intake" for cheap? perhaps some of you have cruisers that runs too cold?

Dusty:
Didn't see this one until just now. Don't dump all that quite yet. First, you are probably heat soaking the can from the placement, and in fact, I'd be temped to duct some cold air at the can itself. Just yesterday I measured the stock can close to 200 with my truck at idle. It's gonna be tough to isolate any big air filter from the heat there, but some heat shielding should help.

Unfortunately, running all the heat threads together, and my testing, I'm pretty convinced that getting exchanged heat out of the bay is pretty key. I'm going after the hood vents myself, but for those not swimming their 80's, those vents in the quarter panels (ala range rover SC) can be added, there's already 2 openings in the rear corners of the engine bay.

Heat management is primarily an exchange issue. But in the 80 with all that engine bay height, venting might prove the most effective and mandatory secondary action.

Bummer it didn't work as you figured Dusty.

Scott Justusson