Coilover question

[4WheelUnderground]

It's been a rule of thumb for longer than that, but it still does not explain why the rule started.

The OEM's use it. They use smaller tires and I've never seen them use anything thicker then 1/8" wall for the brackets. Would make perfect sense that all their studdies from decades past tell them its the budgetary and surefire way of taking care of the engineering as quickly as possible.


Thats a total guess, but it makes sense.

 

[Mace]

My guess is rod end/bushing failure. On my anti wrap for the rear of a SOA I was at about 4" and I went through bushing like crazy. Opened it up to 6"-7" and hadn't replaced one in years??

I think the 2.25" .375 wall DOM and EVO ends can handle the stress of less then 6". There going to have to because I don't have that much room

You are correct about that. stress on the bushing/rod end is significantly decreased the longer the lever arm.
Half the people out there think that the larger the separation, the less likely the welds between the mount and the axle will fail.

EVO joints will be fine.

 

[brokenparts]

for comparison... my 60 is a 3 link with a panhard. I'm running 42s (could easily run 44s) and my frame is at 28inches with 14 inch coilovers. I have 6 inches of up travel.

I have a build thread in the 60 section and over on pirate if you want more details. Packaging the whole thing can be a challenge but I bet you could get it down into the 22-24".... you are just going have to make some compromises.

 

[Tapage]

but here it's an important point Zach .. you move your rear back a lot ! and trim your fenders pretty good way too .. ( compromises uh ! )

How much separation have you between your links at front .?

 

[brokenparts]

but here it's an important point Zach .. you move your rear back a lot ! and trim your fenders pretty good way too .. ( compromises uh ! )

How much separation have you between your links at front .?

you mean between the upper and lowers at the axle?

 

[brokenparts]

9 inches if that is what you mean.

I should also mention that I am running full hydro which made packaging the 3 link a bit easier.

 

[Tapage]

9 inches if that is what you mean.

yep .. thanks .. ! and sure the full hydro make the things easy along this won't be your HW Cruiser ..

 

[The Dude]

Brokenparts, I have been through both of your builds multiple times. Love the truck. I really think the 23-24 is a doable mark with 39.5 tires with lots of fender trimming.

As for the steering I am looking into this double ended ram from EMF (Evolution) for hydro assist. It completely replaces your tie rod. Uses VERY nice rod ends and will keep all the mechanical connection to keep our local inspectors happy.

 

[Mace]

That de ram is very cool. But I do have to ask, why spend the extra money on a hydro assist de ram ?

 

[brokenparts]

Brokenparts, I have been through both of your builds multiple times. Love the truck. I really think the 23-24 is a doable mark with 39.5 tires with lots of fender trimming.

As for the steering I am looking into this double ended ram from EMF (Evolution) for hydro assist. It completely replaces your tie rod. Uses VERY nice rod ends and will keep all the mechanical connection to keep our local inspectors happy.

Thanks... there is a lot of things that I would probably do different if I were to do it over again but all and all I feel I made the right compromises where it would least effect the rest of the truck.

Let me know if you ever want an pics or measurements for reference. I think what you are doing is completely possible with patience and ingenuity. Good luck!

 

[The Dude]

That de ram is very cool. But I do have to ask, why spend the extra money on a hydro assist de ram ?

space, less lag left to right (EMF's claim but I know I have it with my homebrew hydro at highway speeds) and a more even distribution of force so hopefully I get a longer life then a year or two on my current GM rod ends. I think it will also put WAY less stress on the 60 series PS box, which is a concern.

I can't run regular hydro on the front of the axle unless I run it WAY under the TR and I can't run it in the back because it sits to high.

 

[Mace]

space, less lag left to right (EMF's claim but I know I have it with my homebrew hydro at highway speeds) and a more even distribution of force so hopefully I get a longer life then a year or two on my current GM rod ends. I think it will also put WAY less stress on the 60 series PS box, which is a concern.

I can't run regular hydro on the front of the axle unless I run it WAY under the TR and I can't run it in the back because it sits to high.

De rams take up more space.

Lag is based on piston size. There may be a argument that a DE ram can have less lag to one direction because the effective assist is less for a given ram size than one direction (the non shaft side) of a single ended ram.

Even distribution of force? Not much of a significance unless you are talking about reducing the force on the ram itself.

I cannot for the life of me see how it would put less stress on the 60 series box.

Donno, seems like a considerably about of extra money for no return.

 

[The Dude]

takes up more space that I don't need i guess is a better way to put it.

The even force and less stress on the box was a complete guess on my part. I just figured having the ram push on both sides and on both TRE that it would take stress off the box.

 

[Mace]

takes up more space that I don't need i guess is a better way to put it.

The even force and less stress on the box was a complete guess on my part. I just figured having the ram push on both sides and on both TRE that it would take stress off the box.

A single ended ram connected to the tie rod will push on both tre's at the same time too

It is a cool and non-conventional setup, but It also looks expensive for no real benefit, and additional wear points..

 

[The Dude]

OK I just want it cuz it's cool

 

[Mace]

I'm fully on board with that justification

 

[SNLC]

All good points RMP&O.

The truck has had 39" tires on it for trips to Alaska and 38" tires on it for trips to the NWT. I didn't think 40" tires where that much of a stretch... IF I can get them to fit. One of our traveling companions ran 39.5" on his BJ74 (a lot easier to do, I know)

I am very prepared to notch/move the frame if need be. Especially in the rear. New fuel tank is in the works already. (I am planning to run air bags in the rear) Cross over in the engine bay is also in the plans. Axle width is already widened 6" (running a 80 series rear and diamond in the front) so I don't think 2.5" CO up front will be a problem. It's the upper link and the panhard that are my current issue.

If I can get it to work, great. If not it's back to springs and life goes on.

Sounds like you have it worked out better then I was thinking. Half ignore my above post, I had a fair share to drink before posting that and I know better!



I am interested in the discussion about the 3-link vs a 4 or whatever. Planning to do my front end with a 3-link and panhard plus coilovers in the next 2-4 months. Overland, on road handling, and so forth are all concerns of mine too. I know the 3-link works well off-road, it is on road with the 3-link though I have no experience with. I am also looking for something that does well at high speed on washboard, whoops and all that. At this point I am planning on the sway bar to do a lot of keeping the front end under control on road. It had crossed my mind though to copy the rear 4-link set up on an 80-series in the front or something similar.

 

[The Dude]

Putting a panhard on a RHD with a 12H-T truck really sucks. I need to take a look at an 81 to see how toyota does it. I got all the leaf spring junk off the axle and have it rolled under the truck... YIKES

What are the rules of a panhard?

1) Eye to eye it needs to follow the drag link? So can it have a few bends in it?
2) Should it be in front, on top or behind the axle? Or does it matter?
3) 1.5" .250 wall DOM OK for strength with a couple of hiems on either end?
4) I assume it needs to be parallel to the axle?
5) how long does it need to be? As long as possible but how short is too short?

Anything else I need to be aware of?

 

[The Dude]

These are still with the high steer arms that need to be replaced.

 

[Mace]

Panhard should be the same length as the tierod and parallel to it