Chimney Rock cruising

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TrAiLbUs1

TrAiLbUs1

10 Year 15 Year
Joined
Jun 25, 2006
Threads
40
Messages
512
Location
Toostoned AZ
Lost the pics due to overposting????How many can you post @ one time for a rookie like me??Sorry fellas for my ignorance, will not do this again(indian head wheeling is off limits)Forest sevice should fence off this area, I didn't know any better, and now I do.
 
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In case you didn't know

Those rocks you pictured are not a part of the legal trail. Forest Service rules are, if it's not marked as a road it is not a road. The Chimney Rock trail goes right past those rocks and thru the cattle gate.
 
Inviting, yes. Legal, no.

There is a reason our trails are being closed, and this is it. People are ignoring the laws and illegally travelling off the trail.

Thanks for giving the greenies one more bullet which they will use to kill our chosen passtime. I guess it is time to talk with the NFS about fencing and placing signs in the area. Thanks for the pictures, I will forward them to the NFS.

:censor:
 
All travel on NFS land is restricted to designated (marked) trails. There are big assed signs reminding you of this throughout the entire fawking country. Blatent disregard of land use rules is the biggest problem we face. It is hard to justify keeping trails open when so many people don't give a damn about the rules, ignoring them whenever they see something that might be fun to drive over.

It is a sad day when people have such disregard that they intentionally break the rules, then brag about it on open forums like this. :frown:
 
goodtimes said:
All travel on NFS land is restricted to designated (marked) trails. There are big assed signs reminding you of this throughout the entire fawking country. Blatent disregard of land use rules is the biggest problem we face. It is hard to justify keeping trails open when so many people don't give a damn about the rules, ignoring them whenever they see something that might be fun to drive over.

It is a sad day when people have such disregard that they intentionally break the rules, then brag about it on open forums like this. :frown:
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Didn't know, sorry won't happen again,(it was an honest mistake, wasn't trying to brag just postin pics) there are no signs posted. I thought it was a trail, didn't go off of the path that was there. I have been camping in that area for years didn't know there was an issue w/ doing this, or that it would offend, have never ran over plants or trees I'm quite respectful when wheeling also, have seen rockhopping vehicle all over thoughs rocks and I didn't agree w/ it either(but they were off the path that I thought was a trail). Have seen many posts from this area, and haven't heard of any discontent. I agree that if this area is not supposed to be used, someone should fence off area or post signs if they don't want people there. To all I have offended I appoligize!!!!!!SORRY:o
Did not mean any harm, I love nature and respect it @ all times including picking up trash every time I go out wheeling. I have cleaned this trail on many occasions including chiva italian trap all of reddington. I bring out trash bags and insist, if someone is coming w/ me that they do the same. We learn from our mistakes, and now I know to keep on posted rds.
This won't happen again.Sorry sorry sorry.
 
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goodtimes said:
Inviting, yes. Legal, no.

There is a reason our trails are being closed, and this is it. People are ignoring the laws and illegally travelling off the trail.

Thanks for giving the greenies one more bullet which they will use to kill our chosen passtime. I guess it is time to talk with the NFS about fencing and placing signs in the area. Thanks for the pictures, I will forward them to the NFS.

:censor:
Click to expand...

I don't see the benefit in reporting one of "ours" to the authorities for making a mistake? I see education, pointing out, learning from errors and working together as positive steps to resolving the problem. Vilifying, prosecuting, insulting or abusing someone for making a mistake only splits our already small group and I don't see how that helps? :confused:

As far as I am concerned TrAiLbUs1 is welcome on the trail with me, he has sacked up for his error, learned from it, so lets move towards a more positive direction.
 
Tools R Us said:
I don't see the benefit in reporting one of "ours" to the authorities for making a mistake? I see education, pointing out, learning from errors and working together as positive steps to resolving the problem. Vilifying, prosecuting, insulting or abusing someone for making a mistake only splits our already small group and I don't see how that helps? :confused:

As far as I am concerned TrAiLbUs1 is welcome on the trail with me, he has sacked up for his error, learned from it, so lets move towards a more positive direction.
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THANK YOU, I APPRECIATE YOUR INPUT.(I AM A RESPECTFUL PERSON AND MEAN NO HARM)
 
tools i agree completely,,, and goodtimes, though i understand and appreciate where your comming from i dont think THAT is the reason trails are getting shut down, and i think you were a little hard on trailbus.
if we were seing, trash, debris, dumping, burning, target shooting said debris, vegetation destruction and a list of other vandalous acts in his pics that'd be a different story. i think THATS whats getting the trails shut down, besides nearly all the "rock crawling" trails didnt even exist 10 yrs ago but that seems to be ok with most folks.
 
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RHINO said:
tools i agree completely,,, and goodtimes, though i understand and appreciate where your comming from i dont think THAT is the reason trails are getting shut down, and i think you blew pretty far over the top there.
if we were seing, trash, debris, dumping, burning, target shooting said debris, vegetation destruction and a list of other vandalous acts in his pics that'd be a different story. i think THATS whats getting the trails shut down, i mean, nearly all the "rock crawling" trails didnt even exist 10 yrs ago but i assume your using them and so long as they are maintained and used responsibly there shouldnt ever be a problem.
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The problem is that we ARE seeing all these thing in this area. There are tire marks up and down the rocks, the flora is being destroyed, trash is piling up, spent casings are laying around....and it is an area that is off limits to vehicle travel! No, it is not as bad as some other areas....YET! We cannot simply say "the problem is not that we are driving on illegal trails, it is the trash on the illegal trails that we need to stop". The problem is that someone created the illegal trail, a bunch of other people continue to use the illegal trail, and while they are at it, they use it as their personal trash can. If the illegal trail was never there, neither would the trash. The tree huggers get a 2 or 1 deal out of it. They have 2 reasons to close the trail (trash and environmental damage).

All the "new rock crawling trails" you mention are on BLM land, where access regulations are very different than on NF and/or State Trust land. Yes, I do use some of them. They are all legal, unlike the trail in question at Chimney Rock. Further, if someone finds me on an illegal trail, I sure the hell expect them to tell me about it! Make a new thread and in big, bold font type "goodtimes, what the **** are you doing?????"

If we don't get off our apathetic asses and do something about the illegal trails and trash, the tree huggers will. Peer pressure is a powerful thing. It can push people to do things they would not normally do....those things can be either good or bad. Peer pressure to stay off of illegal trails is a good thing.

As for TrAiLbUs1, he had the sac to come out and apologize in public. For this he is to be applauded. He said he was unaware of the access restrictions. I have no reason to not believe him. Hopefully he learned something, and hopefully he will pass that knowledge on to the next guy. If we cannot police ourselves, we will all be hanging out at the shopping malls, because that is all that will be left for us.

I have been in contact with the NFS (this morning) regarding this specific area (no pictures). They are aware of the problem, and are working on solutions to help mitigate the damage we (OHV users) are doing there. Hopefully their response to the illegal activity will be enough to keep most of the people out of there (we all know keeping 100% of the people out just isn't realistic). Unfortunately, every dollar spent trying to fix this problem is one less dollar that can be spent on more meaningful projects.
 
Let's make something positive out of this whole situation, Goodtimes and I would like to propose an annual cleanup event in the Reddington area. We all know it is in need of such a thing, so lets do it. Starting w/ either Chiva or Indian head loop, if CSC is seen doing their part perhaps others(clubs ohvers) will follow. It's one thing to talk about problems, it's another to buck up and take matters(trash) into your own hands. End of January sounds like a good time, so lets organize it. :cheers:
 
Never been to the place in question, so no comment, but I've been in similar situations:

You ride a trail for the first time. No one in the group has been on the trail before; but the trail is marked on several maps. You get to a place where the maps aren't quite so clear, there's no signage, but earlier signs lead you to believe you're on the real trail. But now there's several divergent tire tracks, all in the overall same direction, frequency of tracks suggest a 70/30 split in usage. How do you know which one's the real (legal) trail? Decide by frequency of usage?

I'm very much aware of the access problem that we all face. Without appropriate trail signs (and I'm not advocating a yellow line down the middle...), it's sometimes quite difficult to do the right thing, even if you try. Given the current debate in AZ (Copper sticker etc.), I'd like to see more done regarding signage so it's clear who's on the trail, and who is not. If that takes a fee, so be it.
 
well put goodtimes, and i agree. i did not know the whole area was off limits, that changes my statement to this particular area a bit, but i think its relevant in general. i think the wheelin would be tolerated better if it wasnt getting trashed. is there something tellin folks its off limits? did trailbus know he was on bad land before he got to that spot??
we have alot of that up here too, there have been signs posted, wire fencing, you name it, and that certain crowd just breaks through it and goes in anyway. its unfortunate that (i think) a very few are making it hard on all of us.
 
I wasn't offended trailbus. I had a feeling you were not aware of it, therefore I felt I should point it out as education. Reddington area is NFS and only marked trails are legal trails. I, myself, have been on one that I now know is illegal. The spur on the Chiva trail that goes over to the pools. I have even lead others over there before, but now I know a little bit more about the policies in the area.
 
MaddBaggins said:
Hey Brian

You shot me a link once to a good map of all the legal roads in Reddington area. Can you post that up again.

Thanks
Click to expand...

Here is the map of all the current legal trails in the Reddington area (this only covers the NF land, access to private land needs to be negotiated between landowner and whoever wants access).

ChaseTruck, the lack of signage on trails can be confusing, and is a major contributing factor to the large volume of illegal trails. The way it is supposed to work on NF land is that all legal trails are marked. If there is no sign, the trail is not legal. In reality, the signs get stolen, run over, shot, washed away, etc.. So even legal trails are not signed properly, which creates confusion. The problem is time and money....the NFS doesn't have enough of either to keep up with all the trails.

Not to beat a dead horse...but the area in question here is not like a well used spur trail. The graded road passes a interesting geological feature ( a bunch of granite slabs). People have simply been leaving the road and driving across the granite slabs at will. They have been basically using it as a playground...driving all over the place. Hopefully the NFS will have the new signs posted next week (that is their plan anyway), so hopefully this will not be an issue in the future.
 
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