Charouleau Gap Trail- MAJOR trail demolition

Joined
Apr 3, 2007
Messages
56
Location
Tucson,AZ
I feel it's very important to let everyone know to what extent Charouleau Gap is getting renovated.

here is a quote from the Nation Forrest Service Dept Engineer that is heading up this project:

"to smooth it out enough IN ORDER TO GET A 'STOCK' FULL SIZE, 4X4, DUALLY, CREW CAB FOUR DOOR, LONG BED" able to drive the whole trail!!!!

I confirmed with the forrest service that this is "NOT A FORREST ROAD THAT MUST BE MAINTAINED BY THEM OR THE STATE FOR ANY REASON"

I was told this is public tax payer funds money also. if so, then since the majority of the public goes to the back side of Mt Lemon or Redington pass, then I believe they should use the money in those areas not a designated 4x4 road.

I attached 3 pics that show 3 things. First, you can drive a honda civic on the dirt parts of the road now and they are only a couple days into the project last Wed when i took these. secondly, look at the trench they dug on the left side of 1100980? they not only demolished part of the road but blocked the natural drainage which will cause a diversion above. Thirdly, we as the trail users, along with the awesome offroad clubs in the southwest can handle all the road maintainance.....this equipment shouldnt be on the trail.

just trying to give input. I feel its in the trails best interest as well as the tax payers, to stop this project immediately, and reevaluate what needs to be done out there if anything.

If you feel the same, please contact the media and the national forrest service and do what you can. I will put as much into this as i can to help.

i've been going there since 1986 and went 3 times in the last week to spend time there before they destroy part of the natural terrain we all thrive on.

scott
P1100979.jpg
P1100980.jpg
P1100985.jpg
 

fj80toyman

...One Landcruiser at a time
 
Joined
Sep 22, 2005
Messages
1,031
Location
So. California
What a shame. I have driven that trail and thoroughly enjoyed the challenge. To turn it into a fire road driven by pass-cars and wanna-be trucks is completely pointless.

Keep up the fight.

g/l, Dan.
 
Joined
Apr 3, 2007
Messages
56
Location
Tucson,AZ
thanks Dan,

any thoughts on how we can at least stop construction and have the Forrest Service reevaluate the situation and maybe better use of the money?
scott
 
Joined
Feb 1, 2010
Messages
4
Scott, do you have a phone number for the forrest service contact that we can start passing around to people. This money would be much better spent on a park like Catilina State park. As far as I know this is not a fire road. This trail has been featured in a couple of diferant magizines and brings people from all over this great Country. It is a shame that the government cant pull their head out of their ass and do the right thing for once.:flipoff2:
 
Joined
Apr 3, 2007
Messages
56
Location
Tucson,AZ
Here is contact info i just found on who to email, fax, and call to Act under NEPA in order to get this back to 'public comment.

its worth the effort getting this stopped before they get to Demon Hill this week or next IF ONLY TO have it re-evaluated. the money should be spent on roads that are actually useful to the public. not just a few. this is not a time of spending money on the extra goodies like making a remote 4x4 only road more accessible to the public.

Written comments may be sent by U.S. mail to Ms. Laura White, Travel Management Program Manager, Coronado National Forest, 300 West Congress Street, Tucson, AZ 85701; by facsimile to "ATTN: Laura White, Catalina Unauthorized Roads NEPA" at (520) 388-8305; and by electronic mail (email) to comments-southwestern-coronado@fs.fed.us with "Catalina Unauthorized Roads NEPA" in the subject line.
To provide telephone or in-person comments and for further information on the proposed action, please contact me at the address and phone number in the letterhead, or contact Ms. White at (520) 388-8419.

HERE ARE ALL THE DETAILS I CAN FIND:

Coronado National Forest - Home Page

Decommissioning of Non-System (Unauthorized) Roads on the Santa Catalina Ranger District
Scoping Notice and Opportunity to Comment
List of Unauthorized Roads Proposed for Decommissioning Santa Catalina Ranger District, August 2009
Maps
Legend
Charouleau Gap/Control Road
Mt. Lemmon Corridor
Redington Pass
Happy Valley

All the links to the above pdf documents are at:
Coronado National Forest - Home Page


This is the notice in it's entirety:
Your National Forest - 404 Error - Document Not Found

United States
Department of
Agriculture
Forest
Service
Coronado National Forest
Santa Catalina Ranger District
5700 N. Sabino Canyon Road
Tucson, Arizona 85750
Phone (520) 749-8700
FAX (520) 749- 7723
Caring for the Land and Serving People Printed on Recycled Paper
File Code:
1950-1/7700
Date:
August 18, 2009
SCOPING NOTICE AND OPPORTUNITY TO COMMENT
DECOMMISSIONING OF NON-SYSTEM (UNAUTHORIZED) ROADS ON THE SANTA CATALINA RANGER DISTRICT
Dear Friends and Neighbors of the Coronado National Forest:
I am writing today to let you know about a proposed road management project on the Santa Catalina Ranger District (District) in Pima and Pinal Counties, Arizona. The legal coordinates of the project area are listed on Attachment 1. To reduce further resource damage in specific areas and to better protect and conserve natural resources on the District, the Forest proposes to decommission1 14.26 miles of non-National Forest System2 roads (non-NFSRs), which are often referred to as “unauthorized” roads. Funding for the project is authorized under the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 (Pub. L. 111-5).
The proposed action would be undertaken concurrently with, but independent of, a recently proposed Forest Service action to manage roads on the District in accordance with the Travel Management Rule [Travel Management; Designated, Routes and Areas for Motor-vehicle Use (36 CFR Parts 212, 251, 261, and 295)]. The distinction between the two projects is that decommissioning as part of the Travel Management proposed action applies to NFS roads only. Further, the objective of the Travel Management project is to produce a District Motor Vehicle Use Map, which will be updated annually, while the objective of decommissioning unauthorized roads is to eliminate roads that pose a significant damage threat to natural resources.
We are about to begin a National Environmental Policy Act (NEPA) review of the proposed action. The first step of our review is scoping, during which we ask the public to help us identify issues and concerns related to the proposed action. Public input is vital because it is integrated into our environmental impacts analyses and may be used in the development of mitigation and alternatives to the proposed action. Information on how you can comment on this proposal or obtain further information is provided below.
1 These are defined in 36 CFR 212 as “activities that result in the stabilization and restoration of unneeded roads to a more natural state”.
2 These are defined in 36 CFR 212 as “a road that is not a forest road or a temporary road and that is not included in a forest transportation atlas”.
BACKGROUND
There are currently 263 miles of open NFS roads, 20.8 miles of closed NFS roads, and about 32 miles of non-NFS (unauthorized) roads and motorized trails on the District, according to an inventory completed by the Forest in January 2009 as part of the Transportation Analysis Process (TAP). Many non-FS roads/trails are the direct result of illegal off-road travel. Others were created, with Forest Service permission, for activities allowable under special-use authorizations, maintenance and/or construction of range improvements on grazing allotments, access to active mining claims, or similar purposes. Some of these roads were not closed when an authorized project or activity ended, and they are presently used by the public for unauthorized motorized and non-motorized travel.
Based on the recently completed TAP, Forest resource specialists determined that many unauthorized roads on the District do not serve a purpose commensurate with their financial and resource damage cost, among other factors. These are the unauthorized roads that are proposed for decommissioning.
Decommissioning refers, in general, to measures designed to eliminate use of a specific road. Activities used to decommission a road may include (1) reestablishing former drainage patterns, stabilizing slopes, and restoring vegetation; (2) blocking the entrance to the road, installing water bars, removing culverts, re-establishing drainage-ways, and removing unstable fills; (3) pulling back road shoulders; (4) scattering slash on the roadbed; (5) completely eliminating a roadbed by restoring natural contours and slopes; and (6) implementing other methods designed to reduce or eliminate the adverse effects of a road.
PROPOSED ACTION
A list of unauthorized roads proposed for decommissioning is attached. A map showing road locations can be viewed on the Forest’s public website3 and at the District office in Sabino Canyon. To request a map for personal use, you may contact Mr. Devin Quintana, District GIS Planner Analyst, at (520) 760-2319.
Many unauthorized roads reflect poor to non-existent engineering design and have caused resource damage by concentrating overland drainage, which, in turn, results in excessive soil erosion. The objectives of the proposed action are to preclude future unauthorized use, return drainage to a natural state, and restore vegetative cover on an unauthorized road.
Specific decommissioning methods to be used on each road or road fragment will depend on site-specific conditions related to drainage, the potential for successfully re-vegetating the area, potential success of excluding vehicle re-use, and accessibility to Forest crews who will perform tasks associated with decommissioning. Any individual or combination of the following methods may be applied.
Barriers: Vehicular travel may be excluded by camouflage, water-barring, ditching, boulder placement, scarification and/or ripping, and/or topographic restoration. These options may be
3 Coronado National Forest - Home Page
used in combination with the installation of “Road Closed” signage at a specific road access location or at locations where circumventing that road may be possible.
Drainage Restoration and Control: Where natural drainages cross an unauthorized road, it would be reshaped so that the drainage regains the original gradient as much as feasible. This method would generally involve the installation of additional water-bars at frequent intervals (up to every 50 feet, depending on road grade) and removal of road fill to re-contour the drainage. Generally, fill would not be placed for drainage gradient restoration because it has a poor chance of remaining in place.
Vegetation Restoration and Control: If a road is devoid of vegetation because of heavy soil compacting, it will be scarified to de-compact the soils. A native seed mix may be applied to the pre- or post-scarified surface, under the direction of the District Biologist. Very steep, restored slopes in sensitive areas may be covered with straw for erosion control and to provide shade.
Fencing: In cases where barriers, signs, and other methods are not effective in keeping vehicles from traveling on a decommissioned road, temporary fencing may be installed. It will usually consist of metal range-fencing using 3 or 4 strands of smooth wire supported by T-posts and anchored at each end with larger brace posts buried to a depth of 24 inches. This method would be an option at locations where the entrance to an unauthorized road occurs in an open area having no natural features to prevent people from driving around barriers.
Ground-disturbing activities, such as scarification, installation of water-bars, and grading, would be necessary on about 50 percent of the length of the roads proposed for decommissioning on the District, because there is a very low probability that natural conditions could be restored without them. Some roads proposed for closure/decommissioning cannot be effectively closed with barriers or similar controls because they are located on flat, open terrain. In those situations, a closure order and sign may be the only feasible option. Most of the roads proposed for decommissioning or closure would require installation of barriers and other treatment actions.
Implementation is expected to begin late in 2009.
PUBLIC INVOLVEMENT
Listing of the proposed action on the Forest’s public website was the first step of public involvement in the NEPA review of the proposed action. Distribution of this Scoping Notice for public comment is the next. Public comments about the proposed action will assist Forest resource specialists in scoping the NEPA review, which includes, but is not limited to, identifying issues to be analyzed and developing alternatives to achieve the objective of closing user-created roads.
In addition to this Scoping Notice, since 2006, the Coronado’s travel management planning has included many opportunities for public involvement in determining the fate of unauthorized roads. Four open-house meetings (one each in Tucson, Safford, Sierra Vista and Douglas) afforded an opportunity for citizens to view maps and to provide input on individual routes regarding unique recreation opportunities, specific vehicle class opportunities, access to
significant locations, dispersed camping opportunities, and environmental and/or safety concerns related to specific roads.
The Forest has held many public meetings as part of its Forest Plan revision process. Travel management, including the problem of unauthorized roads, was a topic at these meetings and was considered in the development of this proposed action.
OPPORTUNITY TO COMMENT
The Forest Service values public input as part of its NEPA process. You are encouraged to submit comments regarding the proposed action and the scope of the NEPA analysis of this project, including those related to alternatives and issues to be addressed4. To receive full consideration and to best assist the Forest Service in defining the NEPA review, your comments should be submitted within 30 days from your receipt of this notice.
Written comments may be sent by U.S. mail to Ms. Laura White, Travel Management Program Manager, Coronado National Forest, 300 West Congress Street, Tucson, AZ 85701; by facsimile to "ATTN: Laura White, Catalina Unauthorized Roads NEPA" at (520) 388-8305; and by electronic mail (email) to comments-southwestern-coronado@fs.fed.us with "Catalina Unauthorized Roads NEPA" in the subject line.
To provide telephone or in-person comments and for further information on the proposed action, please contact me at the address and phone number in the letterhead, or contact Ms. White at (520) 388-8419. Questions on Transportation Analysis Process (TAP) may be directed to Ms. Melissa Shafiqullah at (520) 388-8415, and on the NEPA process, to Ms. Andrea W. Campbell, Forest NEPA Coordinator, at (520) 388-8352.
Thank you for your interest and participation in the activities of the Coronado National Forest.
Sincerely,
R. STAN HELIN
District Ranger
4 Comments and personally identifying information associated with them, such as names and addresses, become part of the administrative record of this NEPA review. As such, they may be made available to a third-party upon request under the authority of the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA). If you do not wish for your personal information to be released in response to a FOIA request, you may choose not to include it with your comments. Alternatively, you may request an exemption from FOIA with your comment submittal. Should you choose the latter, you would be informed by the Forest Service as to whether or not your request qualifies for an exemption. If it does not, you will be offered an opportunity to resubmit your comments without personal information or to withhold them.
__________________
Jim
 

splitshot

Head cook, Bottle washer, and Peace keeper.
SILVER Star
 
Joined
Nov 17, 2006
Messages
7,375
Location
Rodent Central, Az
Just curious where the funds are coming from. I've heard about severe cutbacks re:the Forest service. Is this just one more instance of extra money being printed in the name of jobs?
 
Joined
Feb 1, 2010
Messages
4
where the money comes from

The money is coming from the "American Recovery and Reinvestment act of 2009" The obama stimulouse plan. They donot have any plans of maintaining this trail in the future. A quote from the forrest service is "if we dont spend the money we lose it." How about we use the money to fix MT. Lemmon and other roads that the general public will get more use out of. They basically just throwing money away.
 
Joined
Feb 1, 2010
Messages
4
If you want to stop this call Walt at the Forrest service at 388-8416. He is willing to listen to ideas. Believe me every call will help our cause. Tell everyone you can. I am meeting him this weekend to discuess options.
 
Joined
Dec 27, 2006
Messages
20
Location
Tucson
Thanks for your hard work Scott.

I've been posting on pirate and Wheeling Arizona till I'm blue in the face, finally maybe we can unite and bring this to a halt.

For those on here who aren't familiar with WAZ, most controversial threads are buried in the members only section so please create an account.

The fight is on:clap:

Ninth Circuit’s Latest Analysis

In its review of two consolidated district court actions, the Ninth Circuit concluded that the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) and Forest Service’s characterization of the State Petitions Rule—“as administrative only and without direct, indirect or cumulative effects on the environment”—was unreasonable. The Ninth Circuit also disagreed with the USDA’s reliance on a Forest Service Handbook provision that excludes “rules, regulations or policies to establish Service-wide administrative procedures, program processes or instructions” from environmental assessment or impact statements: “Given the USDA’s repeated acknowledgement of its intent to repeal—or “replace” —the Roadless Rule, that the State Petitions Rule accomplished little else, supports our conclusion that a primary purpose of the State Petition Rule was taking substantive environmental protections off the books.” The replacement of the Roadless Rule with lesser protections therefore triggered the threshold for environmental analysis under NEPA.

The court reached a similar conclusion regarding the Forest Service’s determination that no ESA consultation was required before it repealed the Roadless Rule. Because the State Petitions Rule removed protections for federally listed species and their critical habitats in roadless areas previously identified by the Forest Service as “biological strongholds for populations of threatened and endangered species,” the Ninth Circuit found its failure to meet consultation requirements under section seven of the ESA arbitrary and capricious.

The Ninth Circuit concluded that while the Forest Service is free to manage roadless areas as it sees fit, it must first comply with NEPA and ESA requirements. It further ruled that the district court did not abuse its discretion in 2006, by reinstating the Roadless Rule, pending Forest Service compliance with these statutes.
This project is in violation of NEPA.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jul 20, 2006
Messages
28
Location
Tucson, AZ
thanks for the number for Walt. i called and left a message letting him know that we want to work toward a different solution. hope he calls back

sam
 
Joined
Jun 4, 2009
Messages
111
i don't know what to say. i am sure that we can all read between the lines and see that the motivation behind this is to make real estate residential development in this area attractive. not the first time state land is sold off to the lowest bidder for massive fake spanish tile sprawl.

lion's back anyone?
 
Joined
Dec 27, 2006
Messages
20
Location
Tucson
www.WheelingArizona.com :: View topic - Super highway at the Gap

SaveRForestsFromUSFS "Charouleau Gap 4x4 Road #736" - Pirate4x4.Com Bulletin Board

SORRY FOR THE CROSS POST BUT IF THIS ISN'T STOPPED TODAY IT WILL BE GONE!!!!

SaveRForestsFromUSFS "Charouleau Gap 4x4 Road #736"


I desperately need pirate4x4's help on this, anyone in the Tucson area or anywhere.




PLEASE WATCH THIS VIDEO:
YouTube - SaveRForestsFromUSFS.wmv

"Charouleau Gap 4x4 Road #736"

2-09-10 Tucson, AZ Charouleau Gap 4x4 Road #736

Coronado National forest is under attack...by the United States Forest Service!

As I post this the one to two foot thick granite surface of these mountains is being stripped away by the USFS with federal stimulus funds.

Once the stagecoach road connecting Tucson with Florence Arizona in our Territorial days, this scenic road has been traveled for decades by 4x4 enthusiasts, mountain bikers, hikers, horseback riders and a diversity of users who embrace the natural beauty of the Catalina mountains. The value of multi-use land management is best demonstrated thus:
Motorized OHV users call in one voice with the Center for Biological Diversity, HALT THIS DESTRUCTION NOW!


Pictures by SaveOurForestsFromTheForestService - Photobucket
















The goal of the USFS is to turn "Charouleau Gap 4x4 Road #736" into a dirt road so they can build hiking trails without having to travel over the existing road.

The claim by the USFS is that this work is covered under their NEPA "road maintainance".

This work far exceeds the scope of "road maintainance".:mad3:

Please call your local representatives and ask them to call!!

Call your local USFS office today and demand that the destruction stop!

Coronado National Forest
Supervisor's Office
Jeanine Derby, Forest Supervisor
300 W. Congress St.
Tucson, AZ 85701
(520) 388-8300

Corbin Newman (Region III) 505-842-3300

Tom Tidwell D.C. Chief of USDA Forest Service 1(800)832-1355

 
Joined
Dec 27, 2006
Messages
20
Location
Tucson
Just got off the phone with Tony Davis from the Arizona Daily Star. We need transportation tomorrow at 1pm at the kiosk at the Gap Road.

This meeting with the USFS and media is vital!!


Who can help?

Please pm me a phone number if I don't already know you.

or call 6227478 or dcmtucsonATcoxDOTnet
 
Joined
Dec 27, 2006
Messages
20
Location
Tucson
Jim Bedwell of the Tucson Rough Riders just called me to confirm that he was on site yesterday and he "sees no problem with the work".

His phone # is listed in the phone book.

123people



Perhaps he will listen to someone else's concern in this matter.
 

MaddBaggins

Remember the KnightRider!
 
Joined
Feb 22, 2005
Messages
3,564
Location
The Old Pueblo
If they've already made it that far, then there's no stopping it. The only thing left is to widen the shelf road. Glad I've done the Gap a crapload of times as it was and I'll run it again when their done to see how fxxxed up it is. :mad:

You guys do realize that by the time this came to light, all the bitches gripes and complaints were too little to late. And yes I called and gave them my opinion, not like it matters in this case.:mad:

Sad in any case, but it really is the way it's gonna be for the future of many trails. This trail demo proves they have many ways to circumvent the public and do what they want before anyone even knows about it.:mad:
 

MaddBaggins

Remember the KnightRider!
 
Joined
Feb 22, 2005
Messages
3,564
Location
The Old Pueblo
Wow, looking at what they've done to the bedrock, I wonder what that trail will look like after a couple of good rains. Absolutely ridiculous.

Sorry to come off apathetic in my last post, but seriously, the damage is done. They've already destroyed all the good stuff on that side of the trail, all thats left is to clean up the shelf road up to the Gap itself.
 
Joined
Dec 27, 2006
Messages
20
Location
Tucson
Now is definintely NOT the time to give up. The stimulus funded project to eradicate roads, like the bypass at Kissing Rock or the trail to the pools at Chiva Falls, is set to begin.

We all need to grow a pair, do our best to minimize their ability to do this stuff and most importantly GET INVOLVED IN THE UPCOMING PROJECTS!

YOU, in a week made the Federal Government defend itself, don't give up now!

US defends project to improve access

We're on the front page of today's paper!:clap:

Focus on the positive and Illegitimi non carborundum! (don't let the bastards wear you down.):bounce2::bounce2:

NOW GO POST SOME COMMENTS GUYS!
 
Joined
Dec 27, 2006
Messages
20
Location
Tucson
Now is definintely NOT the time to give up. The stimulus funded project to eradicate roads, like the bypass at kissing Rock or the trail to the pools at Chiva Falls, is set to begin.

We all need to grow a pair, do our best to minimize their ability to do this stuff and most importantly GET INVOLVED IN THE UPCOMING PROJECTS!

YOU, in a week made the Federal Government defend itself, don't give up now!

US defends project to improve access

We're on the front page of today's paper!:clap:

Focus on the positive and Illegitimi non carborundum! (don't let the bastards wear you down.):bounce2::bounce2:
 
Joined
Jan 14, 2008
Messages
19
As DUMASS said, this is definitely not the time to give up. Now is the time for all of us to rally together and get our voice heard. The comments we post on the Arizona Daily Star article the more likely they are to cover stories like this in the future. This also shows the forest service that we're not gonna take the destruction of our trails lightly (especially when they are using our money that should be going else ware to do it.)
 
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