Charouleau Gap Trail- MAJOR trail demolition (1 Viewer)

[dumass]

Just posted this on TOR and Pirate, keep up the pressure, it's going to be a long year!

If you can't call, PLEASE send an e-mail to ttidwell@fs.fed.us

You guys are awesome, DC is back again.

Call the USFS, 1-800-832-1355, ask for Tom Tidwell, you'll likely reach Dianne. Leave a polite message expressing your feelings regarding spending "Aspen Fire" disaster relief money to bulldoze one trail into a graded road, when you are about to spend "American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009" "stimulus" money to destroy the dirt road next to the first road.

Dave - I called your cell call me.

PLEASE CALL AND E-MAIL TIDWELL!!!!

OUR OLD STRATEGIES DO NOT WORK!!!

PLEASE MAKE THE PHONES RING, s*** ROLLS DOWNHILL IN GOVERNMENT.

EVERYONE STILL RUNNING LAST YEAR'S PLAN ........YOU HAD YOUR CHANCE TO LEAD AND YOU FxxxED THAT UP. :mad2:

IT IS TIME TO FOLLOW OR GET THE Fxxx OUT OF THE WAY. COMMENTS BEGGING FOR YOUR RIGHTS DIDN'T STOP WHAT IS GOING ON NOW FROM HAPPENING.

GROW A PAIR OF BALLS AND CALL THESE FxxxWADS UP AND DEMAND THAT THEY STOP.

START AT THE TOP, TIDWELL.

1-800-832-1355, ask for Tom Tidwel, if you can't call, PLEASE send an e-mail to ttidwell@fs.fed.us

IF HE REMAINS UNRESPONSIVE WE WILL TAKE IT UP A NOTCH!

THE WASHINGTON POST.....NEW YORK TIMES.....USA TODAY


If you are happy with the way things are going keep doing what you've been doing. If you see that it hasn't worked then for fxxx sake grow a brain and do something different!

START AT THE TOP AND WORK YOUR WAY DOWN!!

1-800-832-1355, ask for Tom Tidwel, if you can't call, PLEASE send an e-mail to ttidwell@fs.fed.us
1-800-832-1355, ask for Tom Tidwel, if you can't call, PLEASE send an e-mail to ttidwell@fs.fed.us
1-800-832-1355, ask for Tom Tidwel, if you can't call, PLEASE send an e-mail to ttidwell@fs.fed.us
1-800-832-1355, ask for Tom Tidwel, if you can't call, PLEASE send an e-mail to ttidwell@fs.fed.us
1-800-832-1355, ask for Tom Tidwel, if you can't call, PLEASE send an e-mail to ttidwell@fs.fed.us
1-800-832-1355, ask for Tom Tidwel, if you can't call, PLEASE send an e-mail to ttidwell@fs.fed.us
1-800-832-1355, ask for Tom Tidwel, if you can't call, PLEASE send an e-mail to ttidwell@fs.fed.us

 

[77K5]

What dumass said

 

[dumass]

We need to focus on going UP the food chain. We must direct 100% of our energies at the top.

That is:
Call the USFS, 1-800-832-1355, ask for Tom Tidwell, if you can't call, PLEASE send an e-mail to ttidwell@fs.fed.us

START AT THE TOP, TIDWELL.


IF HE REMAINS UNRESPONSIVE WE WILL TAKE IT UP A NOTCH!

THE WASHINGTON POST.....NEW YORK TIMES.....USA TODAY


Step 1 -Call, ask for a call back.
Step 2 - wait until YOU feel like calling back (30min, 3 hrs or the next day....keep calling)
Repeat

Make them return your call, if you don't get a call back say so, when you call again, and tell them you will keep calling until something is done.

 

[TrAiLbUs1]

I just emailed him expressing my concerns for this ridiculous project..thanks to all that have been speading your time trying to fight for this cause. I cant believe its been graded to this extent.

Holy s***... it's gone. I can't believe it.

For those of you who didn't know it, that was an iconic obstacle... unbelievable.

 

[77K5]

Here is the response I recieved from Walt Keyes, the Forest Service Engineer in charge of the "maintenance" on the gap. The first part is my email and the second part is his response.


I am the founder of Tucson Off-Road, a four wheel drive club located in Tucson Arizona, who partners with the Forest Service on trail cleanups and maintenance. Recently, Charouleau Gap 4x4 Road #736, which is a very popular off-road destination for southern Arizona was leveled by the Forest Service. The terms used by project manager and Forest Service Engineer, Walt Keyes, which were reported by Tony Davis of the Arizona Daily Star, were that "the agency needs to maintain this road as if it were a car or a roof that shouldn't be allowed to waste away". Recent pictures and video of this so called "maintenance" show massive chunks of granite nearly two feet thick being jack hammered away to expose the dirt underneath. A good portion of this trail was covered by this granite which offered endless protection from erosion for this trail. Now that it is gone, I would like to know how this "maintenance" is going to keep this trail from "being allowed to waste away"? I would also like to know why the Forest Service was not required to have an environmental impact study performed? Every time we, as an off-road club, want to perform trail maintenance on Forest Service trails we have to jump through hoops and cut through red tape to be able to do so. All that this "maintenance" has done is opened up a very pristine area to the masses. I thought the Forest Service would have learned their lesson from Reddington Pass, another local area that was made accessible to the masses and now looks like a landfill simply because the Forest Service will not enforce the laws. And further more, why is the Forest Service waisting $29,000 of trickled down tax payer money on an unnecessary back country project when our country is bankrupt? I would appreciate a response to my questions and in the future we, as an off-road community, DEMAND to have a voice in matters relating to our trails instead of being kept in the dark until after the fact. Remember, YOU, the Forest Service, work for US, the tax payer, not the other way around.

Respectfully,
Kyle Lutzelberger
Founder, Tucson Off-Road





Mr. Lutzelberger,

Please don't believe everything you read or hear without thinking about it.

You bring up a great many points, most of which are advanced by the main purveyor of the concept that the USFS has done wrong at this end of the Gap.

Here are the facts in reply to your questions/statements, in the general order you presented them:

* Charouleau Gap road is a Maintenance Level 2 Forest Service high clearance vehicle road. It requires 4x4 (or hoof, or foot) to negotiate these days due to insufficient maintenance over the years (did you know 2WD passenger cars used to drive the road?). The Forest Service has no intent to make it a 2WD road, but we have no intent to allow it to degrade to the point that it causes unnecessary damage to adjacent resources (bypasses, spilled oil from ruptured gearcases, etc.) or is a serious safety concern. You see, it's our JOB to do so.

* When anyone other than the Forest Service works on our roads or land they need a special use permit to do so. If surface disturbance outside of the existing (main) road will occur then it always requires at least a categorical exclusion (the lightest form of NEPA compliance); usually the work doesn't fall into a category of work that a CatEx applies to, so therefore an environmental analysis would need to be done first. This is not MY rule, it is the rule that OUR government (excuse me for using your FONT method) imposes on us so that we don't do stupid things to YOUR land, and so that we don't allow YOU to do stupid things to YOUR land either.

* Yes, we have removed bedrock from the road using a hydraulic hammer (not a jackhammer). Regardless, the rock we removed was substantially impeding our use of the road, and more to the point, was an impediment to us providing future maintenance on this road in future years. You see, our dozer would have difficulty on some of the rock areas, as it would slide off the rock. In other locations we would not be able to get our dozer's 4x4 service truck up there--and providing fuel and service is part-and-parcel of operating road maintenance equipment. Yes, we COULD fuel the dozer with a 4x4 regular truck, but that truck would not be able to provide service should the dozer have some serious mechanical problem (in which case we would have to rent another dozer, doze the road anyway up to our dozer, fix our dozer with our service truck, and then complete the job after returning the rental dozer). Now we will be able to use our dozer to provide repair and drainage on areas further in future years--should the District Ranger wish it. He makes the main decisions regarding priorities for which roads receive maintenance each year (budget allowing).

* The areas where we have removed bedrock have bedrock below. Yes, in one area the bedrock was exfoliating and had a few inches of decomposed granite underneath. Under that decomposed granite is more granite. Lots of it. Trust me. More than we can shake our hydraulic stick at, as it were. The bedrock/granite is far from "gone".

* Granite on this road does not offer "endless protection from erosion for this trail". (again, it's a ROAD) The granite is often well-weathered and is extremely "friable" in many locations. Tires, axles and most importantly, water are wearing it down quite quickly in some locations--like just below the first cattleguard. Especially at that location the endless protection had ceased to protect a long time ago.

* An environmental impact study is required for federal actions which will have a substantial effect on the human environment--like Rosemont Mine. What we did at the Gap is called road maintenance and falls under a categorical exclusion. We remove bedrock multiple times a year on our forest roads. If we were required to do lots of studies and documentation to perform road maintenance we would basically kiss road maintenance good bye and use its funding for the studies instead. Remember these roads are often your only access to your public lands and if we don't maintain them they'll become impassable eventually.

* Has the work we performed opened the area up to the masses? You mean CITIZENS? Yes it has--if you have the right kind of rig. Has it substantially changed the minimal type of vehicle required to get up there? YES. Now the Forest Service can drive on the actual road (and not use the bypasses) and get to the Gap. You see, WE cannot buy lift kits for our government rigs, by policy.

* You may have seen the online video complaining that our trail crew had to walk on the trail to do their trail work. The claim is idiotic: The trail crew leader was merely telling the main pot-stirrer that the trail crew had to walk on many miles of the Gap ROAD in order to access the beginning of the trail (because their trucks could not negotiate the Gap road). That's YOUR money paying them to walk instead of drive to the trailhead. And no, you can't pile them in the back of a UTV, by policy. And no, we don't have a fleet of UTVs. But we do have 4x4 trucks. We attempt to WORK (for you), as opposed to play or play games (like walking on roads or buying a fleet of UTVs).

* I'm so sorry that we're spending taxpayer money when we're bankrupt. Should I suggest that we immediately close the National Forests to all use to save the money? Get real: do you really expect an answer to your question/statement, thus: "And further more, why is the Forest Service waisting $29,000 of trickled down tax payer money on an unnecessary back country project when our country is bankrupt?"

* "I would appreciate a response to my questions and in the future we, as an off-road community, DEMAND to have a voice in matters relating to our trails instead of being kept in the dark until after the fact. Remember, YOU, the Forest Service, work for US, the tax payer, not the other way around." You have been reading my response. Please excuse my snide tone but I've had my fill of folks who take a one-sided view of what this road is for (their playground, and not for anyone with a less capable rig). Our District Ranger made extensive contact with the Tucson Roughriders--perhaps had you stayed for the "Drama" (gleaned from your website) you would have heard of the work well in advance and not fallen for the single-sided presentation you apparently have adopted. We cannot, and will not attempt to contact everyone potentially interested in an area when we do road maintenance (did I mention not wasting taxpayers money?). In fact we are required to contact NOBODY under such circumstances. However the Ranger decided to do some outreach anyway. Sorry he missed you.

Finally, we work for the President, and are funded and have the laws made by Congress, if I recall my Civics. YOU get to elect those various folks to make a change in programs or emphasis you don't like, or emphasize those you do like.

And as always, the Ranger and I (and most of the rest of us) are more than willing to meet you at least halfway if you have constructive or otherwise useful criticism, comments, suggestions or atta-boys. You have my email address and phone numbers--call me if you have questions. I'm really not such a bad guy (and my J-20 has been through the Gap twice).

Sincerely,

Walt.
.................................................. .................
Walt Keyes -- Roads Engineer
Coronado National Forest
300 W. Congress, Tucson, AZ 85701
520-388-8416 voice / 260-9567 cell / 388-8334 fax / wkeyes@fs.fed.us

 

[dumass]

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