Can't open Gun Safe...

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JLH911

JLH911

Joined
Sep 2, 2007
Threads
303
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3,085
Location
So. Cal
I recently bought a used Liberty brand Gun Safe(non-functioning) It's the Centurion line, 17 Cubic Foot model.

My question is this. The Sargent and Greenleaf electronic bolt was not functioning. I took it off the inside of the door in preparation to replace it. I closed the door with the handle in the open position.

Unfortunately, someone came by and turned it, moving the mechanism(cam?) and bringing down the mechanical bolt that prevents one from turning the handle and moving the four side bolts into place. I can not get in open now.

I was wondering if this is something a locksmith can get open. Does anyone here have any locksmith experience and know if this can be open by a pro?


Thanks so much in advance.
 
LOL,

Same thing happened to me............. 911 Dist went out of biz and I purchased a safe. I wrote down the combo, ran through it several times and was good to go....Loaded it up and wham o it would not open!!!!

Buddy came over from a local PD and spent hours on it with a bottle of vodka and a stethoscope....No love, had to call a pro since the manufacture would not give me dick.

Shane
 
AATLAS1X said:
LOL,

Same thing happened to me............. 911 Dist went out of biz and I purchased a safe. I wrote down the combo, ran through it several times and was good to go....Loaded it up and wham o it would not open!!!!

Buddy came over from a local PD and spent hours on it with a bottle of vodka and a stethoscope....No love, had to call a pro since the manufacture would not give me dick.

Shane
Click to expand...


hahaha Vodka might help...

But my problem is a little different as I don't have a keypad on there anymore! There must be a way for them to open this. I hate having to call a pro but I might have to.:frown:
 
you could conceivably drill a hole, borrow a borescope and try to move things on the inside with a bent rod of some sort. Then reweld the hole shut. Would be interesting to do if the safe is not too valuable. May also not work very easily and you may need a number of holes. Unless the combo removal left a hole already there near the toggle...

A pro will get the drawings from the manufacturer, drill the one hole right where it's needed. Open it up in maybe 30 mins total, then should reweld with a ball bearing in there (assuming there is enough metal to worry about that, probably not the case for a mainstream "safe"). Expensive.

It's a good idea to make drawings of the position of all the hardware inside and save those someplace off the premises, especially for an obsolete safe design.

Oh, and charge the :censor: who locked it up for it all... :)
 
some safe locks have two combos... if you can get your hands on the factory manual, it will step you through the "secret combo"
 
e9999 said:
you could conceivably drill a hole, borrow a borescope and try to move things on the inside with a bent rod of some sort. Then reweld the hole shut. Would be interesting to do if the safe is not too valuable. May also not work very easily and you may need a number of holes. Unless the combo removal left a hole already there near the toggle...

A pro will get the drawings from the manufacturer, drill the one hole right where it's needed. Open it up in maybe 30 mins total, then should reweld with a ball bearing in there (assuming there is enough metal to worry about that, probably not the case for a mainstream "safe"). Expensive.

It's a good idea to make drawings of the position of all the hardware inside and save those someplace off the premises, especially for an obsolete safe design.

Oh, and charge the :censor: who locked it up for it all... :)
Click to expand...

You kind of suggested what I was thinking.

I was actually thinking of cutting a hole at the bottom of the safe and using a rod to move the lock that came down. I remember which one it was.

If I made a whole at the bottom and assuming I got it open, I could re-weld the opening from the inside once it's done. Once I bolted it to the floor, the opening wouldn't be accessible, plus it'd be welded.

What do you think?
 
beaufort-fj60 said:
did you try the Sargent and Greenleaf site.. they have pdfs for all the locks and installation instructions. You might be able to reverse engineer how the electronic lock works with the mechanical lock it is attached to

Sargent and Greenleaf- Electronic Safe Locks-Biometric keypad, high security lock click details on the lock you have.. that will get you to the pdfs
Click to expand...

Yeah, I checked it but what I need is the mechanism for the DOOR itself. The electronic bolt device is separate from the safe's locking mechanism. It integrates with it, but the door's locking mechanism is made by the safe manufacturer.

Thanks!
 
JLH911 said:
Yeah, I checked it but what I need is the mechanism for the DOOR itself. The electronic bolt device is separate from the safe's locking mechanism. It integrates with it, but the door's locking mechanism is made by the safe manufacturer.

Thanks!
Click to expand...

yeah I got that from your original post... but the electronic lock and the safe locking mechanism have to attach to each other somewhere... are there just wires sticking out of the safe?
 
e9999 said:
you could conceivably drill a hole, borrow a borescope and try to move things on the inside with a bent rod of some sort. Then reweld the hole shut. Would be interesting to do if the safe is not too valuable. May also not work very easily and you may need a number of holes. Unless the combo removal left a hole already there near the toggle...

A pro will get the drawings from the manufacturer, drill the one hole right where it's needed. Open it up in maybe 30 mins total, then should reweld with a ball bearing in there (assuming there is enough metal to worry about that, probably not the case for a mainstream "safe"). Expensive.

It's a good idea to make drawings of the position of all the hardware inside and save those someplace off the premises, especially for an obsolete safe design.

Oh, and charge the :censor: who locked it up for it all... :)
Click to expand...
This advice from someone who won't cut a chip resistor on a ham radio?
 
beaufort-fj60 said:
yeah I got that from your original post... but the electronic lock and the safe locking mechanism have to attach to each other somewhere... are there just wires sticking out of the safe?
Click to expand...

No, I removed the electronic keypad and now there is a small hole that goes from the outside of the door to the inside area. It's about a 1/4" in diameter.


Thanks
 
Sounds like the relocker is the one that is causing the problem. If you have a very good idea of what it looks like, it's probably possible to drill it and get it open. I doubt if you'd be able to get to it through the hole for the electronic keypad, the whole point of it is to keep the bolts locked in a case like this. So I guess on a positive note at least you know it works.

Where in Socal are you?
 
It sounded like he was talking about a toggle associated with the combo mechanism, that shouldn't be too bad. But if it's indeed a relocker with serious springs etc, that's another issue altogether and probably would be hard to open it with a DIY job.

And, yes, I would think if you go though the bottom and later bolt it down you should be OK security wise -at least given the limitations of the safe itself-. But it would likely be too long a reach to actuate anything if you mean a small hole. But if you're going to bolt it down over concrete, heck, you could cut a large opening in the bottom, who cares if it was cheap enough. A grinder and cutoff wheel will get you in there in 30 mins.

Editorial comment: IMO, customer-level safes are way overhyped. There is a lot of marketing and mythique associated with them but these things are typically not very strong, made of relatively thin steel sheets, and would not resist a determined thief very long. People are usually surprised then they hear that "burglar proof lock" etc kind of standards really only mean something like "will take 15 mins to open" or something similar.





added: if I were in that situation, I would first figure out the cost of a smith job vs the cost and/or value of the safe. If the safe is not worth much resale wise, I would be more inclined to try and do the job myself since you could likely fix it back up again. If you could get a smith to open it up via the existing dial hole for, say, a couple of hundred $$, may be worth it. If it's going to be $500 to open forcibly and reseal, plus you need to buy a new lock (these are not cheap) anyway, then you probably are close to the value of a new safe and I would just dig in.
 
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ducktapeguy said:
Sounds like the relocker is the one that is causing the problem. If you have a very good idea of what it looks like, it's probably possible to drill it and get it open. I doubt if you'd be able to get to it through the hole for the electronic keypad, the whole point of it is to keep the bolts locked in a case like this. So I guess on a positive note at least you know it works.

Where in Socal are you?
Click to expand...

I'm in the San Gabriel Valley. Are you a locksmith?

Thanks
 
e9999 said:
It sounded like he was talking about a toggle associated with the combo mechanism, that shouldn't be too bad. But if it's indeed a relocker with serious springs etc, that's another issue altogether and probably would be hard to open it with a DIY job.

And, yes, I would think if you go though the bottom and later bolt it down you should be OK security wise -at least given the limitations of the safe itself-. But it would likely be too long a reach to actuate anything if you mean a small hole. But if you're going to bolt it down over concrete, heck, you could cut a large opening in the bottom, who cares if it was cheap enough. A grinder and cutoff wheel will get you in there in 30 mins.

Editorial comment: IMO, customer-level safes are way overhyped. There is a lot of marketing and mythique associated with them but these things are typically not very strong, made of relatively thin steel sheets, and would not resist a determined thief very long. People are usually surprised then they hear that "burglar proof lock" etc kind of standards really only mean something like "will take 15 mins to open" or something similar. The industry is very self-preserving (witness the smiths that charge $100 to change your combo because it's so difficult and will not admit that you can buy a $5 key and do it yourself in 5 mins).






added: if I were in that situation, I would first figure out the cost of a smith job vs the cost and/or value of the safe. If the safe is not worth much resale wise, I would be more inclined to try and do the job myself since you could likely fix it back up again. If you could get a smith to open it up via the existing dial hole for, say, a couple of hundred $$, may be worth it. If it's going to be $500 to open forcibly and reseal, plus you need to buy a new lock (these are not cheap) anyway, then you probably are close to the value of a new safe and I would just dig in.
Click to expand...

Great info. If there was a fellow Mudder/Lockssmith on here that could maybe take a look, I'd probably let him have a try, but if it sounded like it was going to be too much trouble, then I think I'll just cut a hole at the bottom the get to the relocker and weld another piece of metal from the inside to seal the the opening(so it doesn't rock from being uneven).

What do you think?
 
JLH911 said:
Great info. If there was a fellow Mudder/Lockssmith on here that could maybe take a look, I'd probably let him have a try, but if it sounded like it was going to be too much trouble, then I think I'll just cut a hole at the bottom the get to the relocker and weld another piece of metal from the inside to seal the the opening(so it doesn't rock from being uneven).

What do you think?
Click to expand...


I think you should call a smith and get a quote to begin with. There are some outstanding locksmiths out there that will do a good job and be reasonable and fair.
(I would be very careful with an open-ended quote,though, i.e. you keep paying as long as he's working on it, it could take a while.)
 
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I'm guessing you are already aware that the manufacturers site has the manuals for their safes online? And they seem to provide some idea about the location of a “bolt detent” mechanism ... I think that may be what you need to release. Might be worthwhile calling the Mfr or checking out a similar model in a store...

Course you run the risk of raising some suspicion. "Help me figure out how to get into a safe I have...." :hillbilly: probably not the first time they have had that request...from ex-wifes and girlfriends etc etc good luck!

If you don't have anything in it ... I would offer it for sale... perhaps infer you bought it in an auction of some old rich guy's estate...it was locked and you can't figure out how to get into it even though you have managed to get the lock off etc...betcha somebody will take it off your hands :) ..if you do get a bite at least slip a 10 dollar note through the small hole.. make it worth their while ..:)

OK OK ... maybe that is evil...but it would be kind of fun!!



On second thought ......say.... you didn't just buy this safe from a guy who said he bought it, already locked, at an estate sale of some rich guys belongings -- and can't get it open....... did you????
 
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Another vote here for calling a pro and getting a quote before trying many home remedies.

Drilling to open the lock is one thing; and it requires knowing exactly where to drill. You can ruin a lock drilling in the wrong spot; or have to drill several holes to find what you need. From what you say, you dont need to drill for the lock.

I doubt you have tripped the relocker---yet. You do not want to trip it; that will make a pros job very difficult, and you can spell that with several $$$.

If a pro's quote is too high I would consider the access from bottom and welding everything up after getting that bar up to open door. The insulation is simple to replace if you need; it is nothing more than gypsum board or trade name sheetrock.

If you have any idea what series lock is on the safe and need info on it, I will look through the books I have. Most of my books are a bit older as I favor the older safes. Yes, I work on a few as a hobby and a little change to support all my hobbies.

Also, I have never seen a safe with two different combinations; they do not work that way. I have worked on small safes up to walk in vaults.
 
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