Burnt Valve ...what to do now?

[Grass]

Hey Guys.

So, my newly acquired (just 2 months ago) 1999 LC with 214k miles was diagnosed with a burnt valve yesterday. Been trying to figure out why it idles rough ever since I bought it, and after going through the standards of cleaning throttle body, MAF, PCV, etc. etc. (all of which I learned to do on this forum as I'm a real beginner under the hood), and then getting a couple of intermittent fault codes, I finally took it in.

Mechanic said I just have a slight misfire at idle, and that's what I'm feeling. I sure didn't think something this catastrophic would be the found issue. It's always felt fine running on the highway, and even accelerated fine. He recommended a new engine, and also recommended I just cut my losses on it because it also has some play in the ball joints and would need themin the near future too.

What would it cost parts/labor for a new engine? I'm really in no way qualified to do the work myself. I know it'll be high, so not sure I want to even go through with it. Thought about selling it, but, my moral compass will not allow me to sell it private party. I'd hate to do that to somebody like it was done to me.

Thought about just trading it in at the stealership to see what they'd give me for it, but I think I'd lose a lot of $$$ that I can't afford to lose. Or, I could play dumb I guess. Any other thoughts or recommended alternatives? I wanted a Land Crusier for so long, finally got one, and this happened. Pretty bummed.

Appreciate the thoughts

 

[shibubba]

Get a second opinion.

Miss fire at idle, intermittent fault codes and runs ok on the highway don't jive well with me. What fault codes did it have?

How exactly did he figure it was a burnt valve?

 

[Grass]

It's a pretty respected automotive shop, but he mentioned, and I'm paraphrasing, but something about they had a tool that basically has a little camera on it.

 

[shibubba]

One last test that may give you a bit more peace of mind before dropping $$$ on a new engine.

Ask them to do a compression test. Then ask them to poor a small amount of oil in that bad cylinder. Then retest, if the number changes you have bad rings. If it stays the same you have a bad seating or burnt valve.

Now, that test won't be useful if you have a broken ring ( which I highly doubt you have )

If it is the engine, I'd get one from a wrecker and swap it in. Dont let this spoil your first land cruiser experience....please!

 

[benjawi4]

I'll preface my two cents by stating I am by no means qualified to be offering any automotive and/or mechanic advise.

I bought my rig back in August and have learned incredible amounts of information regarding our trucks over the last few months. Ignorant at the time, I purchased my truck from a delaership in MN because the price looked to be 'awesome,' and yes, low and behold she is the epitome of a 'rust bucket.'

Almost without fail, everyone I've encountered since buying the vehicle inevitably has told me to sell it or part it out after they realize how rusty it is. I have resisted the it-will-cost-too-much-to-fix suggestions in part because I financed the vehicle, yes, but also because like you I love my truck. And like you, presumably, one of the reasons I fell in love with the truck was because of its reputation of reliability. So yes, part of the reason I have continued to put money into it is because I know I won't be able to pay off the lien if I sell it, but also because I firmly believe that with the right TLC this ultra-reliable machine can, and will, continue to persevere. Admiteddly this subjective and biased, because yes, I am stuck with a rust truck, but at the same time I am confidant my investment in repairs will continue to pay off.

What I'm trying to say is, take some time to decide as to whether or not you want to sell it. I honestly have no idea how much buying and replacing an engine will cost, but my two cents is to think long term about it. If its in otherwise good condition, maybe the expense of replacing the engine will prove to be the last 'big ticket' repair you'll have to do for a while.

Just my two cents...

 

[camino70]

This place is a wealth of knowledge and there's no better time than now to start wrenching.

I wouldn't consider it catastrophic and swap the engine until it's dead and it's not.

I'd pull the plugs, take some pics and post them up. How old are they, what are they gapped at? While the plugs are out, perform a compression test, 2001lc has the proper procedure somewhere.

How old are the coil packs?

Have you tried the dollar bill trick? Place it over the tail pipe while it's running, see if it gets sucked in. although he did run a camera in each cylinder which would be conclusive, maybe he can provide a picture of each?

 

[Grass]

I had the coil packs checked and they said they were good. I did the spark plugs myself after reading forum write-ups. The old ones had about 30k miles on them and I replaced with OEM. There was nothing caked-on the ones I took out. No signs of coolant or oil on them. Did not notice any difference in how the thing ran after replacing.

I just went out and tried the dollar bill trick, except just using a piece of printer paper. No suckage.

Although, maybe I should try it with a $100? Seems to be partial to those.

 

[Grass]

Get a second opinion.

Miss fire at idle, intermittent fault codes and runs ok on the highway don't jive well with me. What fault codes did it have?

Sorry, missed this earlier. It gave P0301. Should mention this as it may be important. First time it threw a code was the day after I ran fuel injector cleaner through the gas tank. Second time was the day after Seafoam through vacuum line. Went away after a day or two in each case.

 

[SWUtah]

Get a 2nd opinion. Don't tell them what anyone else's told you let them figure it out.

 

[shibubba]

Second opinion!

And ask for a compression test, personally I think a compression test is more accurate than a scope. Things can be misinterpreted through a scope, I have used 10,000$ scopes to inspect cylinders on 3000hp v16's and could not accurately judge. But a compression test is pretty black and white.

Hope this helps!

 

[ton504]

I would remove the two cam gear covers to verify timing. And I would recommend you do this yourself.

 

[brianrride]

Hey Guys.

So, my newly acquired (just 2 months ago) 1999 LC with 214k miles was diagnosed with a burnt valve yesterday. Been trying to figure out why it idles rough ever since I bought it, and after going through the standards of cleaning throttle body, MAF, PCV, etc. etc. (all of which I learned to do on this forum as I'm a real beginner under the hood), and then getting a couple of intermittent fault codes, I finally took it in.

Mechanic said I just have a slight misfire at idle, and that's what I'm feeling. I sure didn't think something this catastrophic would be the found issue. It's always felt fine running on the highway, and even accelerated fine. He recommended a new engine, and also recommended I just cut my losses on it because it also has some play in the ball joints and would need themin the near future too.

What would it cost parts/labor for a new engine? I'm really in no way qualified to do the work myself. I know it'll be high, so not sure I want to even go through with it. Thought about selling it, but, my moral compass will not allow me to sell it private party. I'd hate to do that to somebody like it was done to me.

Thought about just trading it in at the stealership to see what they'd give me for it, but I think I'd lose a lot of $$$ that I can't afford to lose. Or, I could play dumb I guess. Any other thoughts or recommended alternatives? I wanted a Land Crusier for so long, finally got one, and this happened. Pretty bummed.

Appreciate the thoughts

Just curious...how "rough" is the idle? You mention it runs good on the highway - how is acceleration? Below average fuel consumption?

 

[Julian Stead]

I would get a compression test, followed by a cylinder leakage test if any are low. This should pinpoint your issue.

 

[Julian Stead]

Ps. As mentioned earlier, check your valve timing before doing a compression test to rule this out.

 

[Grass]

Just curious...how "rough" is the idle? You mention it runs good on the highway - how is acceleration? Below average fuel consumption?

The needle stays nice and steady at about 700 RPM during idle but it's just a really noticeable vibration. It'd give it a five out of 10 as far as roughness. Mechanic said this was the misfire at idle I'm feeling.

Fuel consumption is seemingly normal. Although I haven't had it very long so not sure I can accurately judge.

I should probably expand on "runs good on highway". Going down the road at 55 it feels fine. Still feeling some vibration in steering wheel that's similar to when it is idling, but not bouncing me off the road or anything.

As far as acceleration, if I'm just pulling out of a parking lot or whatever, acceleration seems normal. One day I took it up to the local ski resort though, which is a serious grade for several miles, and it really struggled. Another time, on my way from Seattle to here, over the mountains, it struggled mightily. 55mph but basically to the floor to maintain it.

 

[ponytl]

might just be me but I have never heard of the toyota 4.7 burning valves, A properly done compression test and leak down test should confirm... you can find an engine for less than $750 plus doing the tb wp ect... you are at 1k might as well do the rack bushing while it's out $50 if you get lucky there are toyo gear heads out there who can do this in a day and $500 just an option... chances are you can drive it as is for years or at least until you gather up the parts and funds

 

[brianrride]

The needle stays nice and steady at about 700 RPM during idle but it's just a really noticeable vibration. It'd give it a five out of 10 as far as roughness. Mechanic said this was the misfire at idle I'm feeling.

Fuel consumption is seemingly normal. Although I haven't had it very long so not sure I can accurately judge.

I should probably expand on "runs good on highway". Going down the road at 55 it feels fine. Still feeling some vibration in steering wheel that's similar to when it is idling, but not bouncing me off the road or anything.

As far as acceleration, if I'm just pulling out of a parking lot or whatever, acceleration seems normal. One day I took it up to the local ski resort though, which is a serious grade for several miles, and it really struggled. Another time, on my way from Seattle to here, over the mountains, it struggled mightily. 55mph but basically to the floor to maintain it.

If it's sluggish, that is a symptom of a burnt valve. So is rough idle. I would expect a 100 series to be sluggish at altitude on a steep grade...I am struggling here, wanting to tell you to drive it and not worry about it. But...I believe I agree with a few others here and say get a second opinion while acting dumb. Not that I don't believe the other shop...but I really need to know for sure the valve is burnt, as this is not a common issue with a 200k mile 4.7.

If this turns into engine replacement, I would anticipate spending $1500 on used engine and about $1500 labor for installation. Total rough guess here, just what my little brain says.

Good luck man and keep us posted!

 

[Grass]

If this turns into engine replacement, I would anticipate spending $1500 on used engine and about $1500 labor for installation. Total rough guess here, just what my little brain says.

Thanks for that. Was guessing somewhere around 3k to 4k. Where would be the best place to look for an engine if I decide to go that route.

I hate to spend the money on even more diagnostics, but I will take everyone's advice and get that cylinder checked.

Also wanted to mention that I did buy one of those OBDII Bluetooth readers. Not sure if any of those metrics would confirm/deny anything, but let me know and I'll report.

 

[brianrride]

Thanks for that. Was guessing somewhere around 3k to 4k. Where would be the best place to look for an engine if I decide to go that route.

car-part.com is where I would start.

 

[fjc-man]

If you don't have a compressor in your garage pay someone to perform a cylinder leak down test to conclusively determine which rings or valves are the problem. Bill