Build Bunny: 40th Anniversary FZJ80 / 6BT / NV4500 build

[Mr Cimarron]

I installed a flush mount Blue Sea dual USB charger in place of the cig lighter. It gives me a bit more room to plug in/unplug chargers in 1st/3rd/5th gears.

I assume you were starting in 2nd gear with the 4.88's. How about now with the 4.10's?

 

[thegogglesdonothing]

I installed a flush mount Blue Sea dual USB charger in place of the cig lighter. It gives me a bit more room to plug in/unplug chargers in 1st/3rd/5th gears.

I assume you were starting in 2nd gear with the 4.88's. How about now with the 4.10's?

Excellent idea. I'm going to just drive the thing for a while to see what needs changed rather than go ape**** changing stuff out of excitement, but a re-thought interior electrical system is definitely on the list. Dual battery and USB ports throughout at a minimum, possibly an inverter or the like, depending on how nuts it seems like I need to go with toys.

With the 4.88s, I was definitely starting in 2nd gear - 1st gear was about useless on-road. The 4.10s make 1st gear a little better, but 2nd still feels right, at least around town. I'm learning how to balance the gear selection with what the motor wants to do - I'm trying NOT to push out tons of smoke, so if I just drive with mechanical sympathy that seems to happen. When I get after it... well, it's a little cloudy behind me.

 

[OGBeno]

Somehow, despite working in professional auto racing in the ALMS / Grand-Am and now IMSA/WEC for most of my career as a marketing guy, I've never picked up any mechanical skill, so I'm leaving all the mechanical decisions to a mechanic friend of mine, Micah Garcia-Black here in Albuquerque.

Does Micah still have the shop on Indian School and the old gas station on Corrales Rd next to Frontier Mart?

Micah is a good dude. Very talented. Next time you see him, tell him Onur says hi.

 

[Mr Cimarron]

Excellent idea. I'm going to just drive the thing for a while to see what needs changed rather than go ape**** changing stuff out of excitement, but a re-thought interior electrical system is definitely on the list. Dual battery and USB ports throughout at a minimum, possibly an inverter or the like, depending on how nuts it seems like I need to go with toys.

With the 4.88s, I was definitely starting in 2nd gear - 1st gear was about useless on-road. The 4.10s make 1st gear a little better, but 2nd still feels right, at least around town. I'm learning how to balance the gear selection with what the motor wants to do - I'm trying NOT to push out tons of smoke, so if I just drive with mechanical sympathy that seems to happen. When I get after it... well, it's a little cloudy behind me.

I didn't get to use first gear until I installed high range gears in the transfer case. Feels normal now.

 

[thegogglesdonothing]

Welp, as sagas go, I've just had a good one. After getting everything buttoned up, 4.10s installed, my wife and I set off a couple of Saturdays ago to do our first camping trip together in the truck. We made it 40 miles from our house and with her driving 80mph, there was a sudden grinding sound, then a big pop, and the motor cut out. She coasted to a stop and we both noticed smoke coming out of the shift boot cover (!!!), and while the truck would fire up, the gearbox was pretty clearly hosed.

So, a 6:30am tow truck and cancelled camping trip later, my mechanic diagnosed that the seal sitting between the output shaft of the NV4500 and the t-case had become dislodged or otherwise couldn't stand up to the pressure differential between the parts, so the transmission slowly pushed all its oil into the t-case... and subsequently welded itself into a solid unit at 80mph. Draining the transmission, there was less than one quart of fluid left inside, but the t-case had almost four quarts of transmission oil come pouring out. Wonderful.

My mechanic, on a whim, emailed Diesel Adapters to find out exactly WTF, and against all odds, the guy actually responded with a phone call, and offered to machine an adapter plate to hold the seals in place. To his credit, he machined the thing and got it in the mail within a couple of days, though he wasn't keen to pay for the entire re-build and install of the 1100-mile old re-built transmission. I attached a photo of the adapter plate here for reference.

Anyhow, the NV4500 case and main shaft were thankfully salvage-able and I managed to get it rebuilt (again) and re-installed (again) with all new internals (again) inside of two weeks, which feels like a small miracle. I'm now going through another break-in period with the transmission. This is the part where I reflect back to my friend who warned me about the frequent heartbreak associated with cool old trucks. This has NOT been an inexpensive month.

Breathing deep... urge to kill falling... falling... RISING!... falling.

 

[thegogglesdonothing]

Does Micah still have the shop on Indian School and the old gas station on Corrales Rd next to Frontier Mart?

Micah is a good dude. Very talented. Next time you see him, tell him Onur says hi.

Regrettably, Micah's pulling the plug on ABQ and leaving for rural Colorado. Can't say I blame him, but I'll miss having him in town!

 

[Dirty Koala]

Welp, as sagas go, I've just had a good one. After getting everything buttoned up, 4.10s installed, my wife and I set off a couple of Saturdays ago to do our first camping trip together in the truck. We made it 40 miles from our house and with her driving 80mph, there was a sudden grinding sound, then a big pop, and the motor cut out. She coasted to a stop and we both noticed smoke coming out of the shift boot cover (!!!), and while the truck would fire up, the gearbox was pretty clearly hosed.

So, a 6:30am tow truck and cancelled camping trip later, my mechanic diagnosed that the seal sitting between the output shaft of the NV4500 and the t-case had become dislodged or otherwise couldn't stand up to the pressure differential between the parts, so the transmission slowly pushed all its oil into the t-case... and subsequently welded itself into a solid unit at 80mph. Draining the transmission, there was less than one quart of fluid left inside, but the t-case had almost four quarts of transmission oil come pouring out. Wonderful.

My mechanic, on a whim, emailed Diesel Adapters to find out exactly WTF, and against all odds, the guy actually responded with a phone call, and offered to machine an adapter plate to hold the seals in place. To his credit, he machined the thing and got it in the mail within a couple of days, though he wasn't keen to pay for the entire re-build and install of the 1100-mile old re-built transmission. I attached a photo of the adapter plate here for reference.

Anyhow, the NV4500 case and main shaft were thankfully salvage-able and I managed to get it rebuilt (again) and re-installed (again) with all new internals (again) inside of two weeks, which feels like a small miracle. I'm now going through another break-in period with the transmission. This is the part where I reflect back to my friend who warned me about the frequent heartbreak associated with cool old trucks. This has NOT been an inexpensive month.

Breathing deep... urge to kill falling... falling... RISING!... falling.

View attachment 1217102

I got a call from Dustin on Monday to tell me about this issue that had occured. I was guessing it was you as you are the only one I know that has this adapter on the road yet. He is going to be sending me the revised adapter plate that holds a 2nd seal.

 

[Wheelingnoob]

No call yet for me.......

 

[Dirty Koala]

No call yet for me.......

Hopefully you get a call soon. I assume he is starting with the folks that are furthest along in this swap. The 2nd seal is a Toyota seal, same part as the HF2AV input seal. The seal is flipped 180 degress around to keep the fluid contained in the NV4500.

 

[Mr Cimarron]

That really sucks. Was there a difference in how the trans shifted or were you in 5th for a long stretch before it happened?

 

[thegogglesdonothing]

I got a call from Dustin on Monday to tell me about this issue that had occured. I was guessing it was you as you are the only one I know that has this adapter on the road yet. He is going to be sending me the revised adapter plate that holds a 2nd seal.

Well, I hope no one else has the same failure I did. I'm glad he's on top of it, and hopefully he can make right the kit he's sold to other buyers.

That really sucks. Was there a difference in how the trans shifted or were you in 5th for a long stretch before it happened?

Unfortunately, no. We had been traveling straight up a long grade on the interstate, about 75-80mph, and probably hadn't shifted for 5 minutes or more. No funny sounds, no vibrations, no smells, just a sudden grinding and a pop, then the motor cut out.

 

[Dirty Koala]

The gear lube that is required in NV4500's runs on the very low end of the kinetic viscosity range for the given weight.

I am running Amsoil Manual Transmission & Transaxle Gear Lube (SAE 75W-90 API GL-4) The GL-4 is the important part for these trans if you don't want your synchros getting eaten up. At 100 degrees Celsius, the kinetic viscosity of this lube is 13.9, which is pretty thin. The range for 90 weight is 13.5 - 18.5.

I speculate that since you were cruising up a long grade at speed in a loaded cruiser for 5+ minutes, your trans really got up to temp and the viscosity thinned out to the point where the xfer case input seal, which is designed to keep fluid in, not out wasn't enough to hold back the transmission gear lube. With the addition of a 2nd seal facing the opposite direction to hold the fluid in, all should work well.

Was that hill the 1st time you had a fully loaded rig pulling up a long interstate grade at speed?

Sorry you had to go through this heartache. If it wasn't you, it would have been me! If we end up going to an event together sometime, I will bring the the best rib-eyes you have ever had.

 

[thegogglesdonothing]

The gear lube that is required in NV4500's runs on the very low end of the kinetic viscosity range for the given weight.

I am running Amsoil Manual Transmission & Transaxle Gear Lube (SAE 75W-90 API GL-4) The GL-4 is the important part for these trans if you don't want your synchros getting eaten up. At 100 degrees Celsius, the kinetic viscosity of this lube is 13.9, which is pretty thin. The range for 90 weight is 13.5 - 18.5.

I speculate that since you were cruising up a long grade at speed in a loaded cruiser for 5+ minutes, your trans really got up to temp and the viscosity thinned out to the point where the xfer case input seal, which is designed to keep fluid in, not out wasn't enough to hold back the transmission gear lube. With the addition of a 2nd seal facing the opposite direction to hold the fluid in, all should work well.

Was that hill the 1st time you had a fully loaded rig pulling up a long interstate grade at speed?

Sorry you had to go through this heartache. If it wasn't you, it would have been me! If we end up going to an event together sometime, I will bring the the best rib-eyes you have ever had.

Thanks man, I'll take you up on the ribeye offer! The fatal pull up the grade wasn't the first time it had done so, but more likely it was the first time I'd gone that speed for more than 15 or so miles straight. Up until that weekend, I'd really only held it at 75mph+ for a few 15-mile stretches on the interstate between me and Albuquerque. Despite having 1100 miles on the motor/transmission, I had only about 100 on the driveline since swapping in 4.10s and injection pump 4k limiter springs.

I think you're on the money about the viscosity of the transmission oil. That's what my mechanic and Diesel Adapters surmised, too. So, here's to being the guinea pig! We're planning to try again this weekend with the camping, so I'm hoping for a better and less expensive experience all around.

 

[Dirty Koala]

Thanks man, I'll take you up on the ribeye offer! The fatal pull up the grade wasn't the first time it had done so, but more likely it was the first time I'd gone that speed for more than 15 or so miles straight. Up until that weekend, I'd really only held it at 75mph+ for a few 15-mile stretches on the interstate between me and Albuquerque. Despite having 1100 miles on the motor/transmission, I had only about 100 on the driveline since swapping in 4.10s and injection pump 4k limiter springs.

I think you're on the money about the viscosity of the transmission oil. That's what my mechanic and Diesel Adapters surmised, too. So, here's to being the guinea pig! We're planning to try again this weekend with the camping, so I'm hoping for a better and less expensive experience all around.

You have the right attitude, taking it on the chin and keep on trucking. Keep us updated how everything progresses. Maybe a good idea to to do a measured drain and fill on the trans after a little while to make sure the fluid has stayed where it's supposed to.

 

[Dirty Koala]

Tonight I took a few measurements to see how difficult it will be to fab up a mounting bracket for the xfer case shifter. From the front of the xfer case to the front mounting bolt of the shifter, it's approximately 10.5". On the NV4500, 10.5" is running into the trans shaft tower, not exactly what I was hoping to discover.

Since your guys are going back in again, think you could get a couple pics of how they mounted the xfer case shifter?

 

[Dirty Koala]

Looking at the location of the xfer case shifter in relation to the auto shifter, it is pushed way forward. On the OEM manual console the xfer case shifter sits much further back. This makes me feel much better as this means there is plenty of room to make a plate to bolt the shift tower to.

 

[thegogglesdonothing]

Looking at the location of the xfer case shifter in relation to the auto shifter, it is pushed way forward. On the OEM manual console the xfer case shifter sits much further back. This makes me feel much better as this means there is plenty of room to make a plate to bolt the shift tower to.

View attachment 1218135 View attachment 1218136

The truck is fully back together and didn't get any photos during the re-install of the transmission/t-case, sorry. One adjustment we did have to make was heating up the t-case lever and bending it slightly forward - getting it into low before took a lot of force.

I may take the console out to paint it and when I do, I'll grab a photo of that. I didn't manage to get any while the truck was disassembled at my builder's. And good point on the measured drain/fill. I've got to change the gear oil in another 400 miles or so, so I can baseline then. At a minimum, we'll see whether the seals hold up for the first 500 miles!

 

[Wheelingnoob]

A local guy Lee has the same adapter. I warned him about this issue. After a bit of convincing he checked his fluid level and found the transmission had 2L left in it and the t case had the other 3L In it. He has only done short city trips and one run out on the hwy to show me. Needless to say he was a very happy I gave him the heads up.

Dustin is shipping us both the replacements today. So thumbs up to him for quickly reacting to the issue and making it right.

 

[thegogglesdonothing]

A local guy Lee has the same adapter. I warned him about this issue. After a bit of convincing he checked his fluid level and found the transmission had 2L left in it and the t case had the other 3L In it. He has only done short city trips and one run out on the hwy to show me. Needless to say he was a very happy I gave him the heads up.

Dustin is shipping us both the replacements today. So thumbs up to him for quickly reacting to the issue and making it right.

I'm grateful you guys are going to be able to dodge that particular bullet! My truck is humming along nicely now, but I'm still hyper-sensitive to every sound and tactile sensation the thing makes. It's like truck PTSD.

 

[Dirty Koala]

A local guy Lee has the same adapter. I warned him about this issue. After a bit of convincing he checked his fluid level and found the transmission had 2L left in it and the t case had the other 3L In it. He has only done short city trips and one run out on the hwy to show me. Needless to say he was a very happy I gave him the heads up.

Dustin is shipping us both the replacements today. So thumbs up to him for quickly reacting to the issue and making it right.

You saved Lee a lot of heart ache! I too am glad Dustin is being pro-active with this issue. I want to get my drive train swung in this weekend, but I am now playing the waiting game until I get the updated adapter.

I'm grateful you guys are going to be able to dodge that particular bullet! My truck is humming along nicely now, but I'm still hyper-sensitive to every sound and tactile sensation the thing makes. It's like truck PTSD.

Has anyone figured a way to install a fluid level sensor in an NV4500. Would be nice to have an idiot light.