Body roll and towing, airbags or new sway bars? (1 Viewer)

[Munks]

Hi all,
I have done a fair amount of research on this site and found plenty of invaluable information.
I'm after learned opinions on which direction I should take to counter my body roll and ride issues.
Vehicle set up:
Tough dog 4 inch lift, heavy duty springs, with adjustable compression shocks, 60 thousand kms old.
Hyperfex radius arms and adjustable arms/panhards.
Heavy duty RTC steering damper.
Full suspension rebush (every single bush) and wheel alignment just completed.
New 35 r17 baja boss tires running 34lbs cold.
Full bar work all around.
Mild load out - not super heavy.

Vehicle has just been rebuilt from an offroader back to daily driver dutys.
Under normal daily driving I have compression set at 5 clicks. That's fine and reasonably comfortable. Little but rolly and slighly hard on potholes / high speed compression stuff, nice on low speed compression and controllable.
When towing my single axle caravan with ball Wright of 270kgs (about 500lbs) I have to increase the compression to 7 clicks to slow the roll. Otherwise its scarry under hard braking and cornering - body roll and swaying. At 7 clicks it is an uncomfortable jarring ride but removes the body roll.
Initially I was thinking about changing shocks to Dobinsons 3 way adjustable to dial that all out.
After searching through here I'm now unsure. I have ordered a Delta panhard relocation bracket which I'm sure will help the unsettled feeling under hard braking.
Now I'm either looking at upgraded sway bars or an airbag kit before going onto looking into changing shocks And springs.

Any real world advise would be much appreciated.

 

[BucketEighty]

Heavy duty sway bars will help a ton. Lowering it 1-2” would help too. When you have more than 2” of lift the roll steer effects will really increase body roll.

Start with the sway bars and see how you like it. Can you move any weight lower in the truck? How is the ride height when you’re towing the trailer? Rear air bags aren’t a bad idea but lower lift height stiffer coils keeps the system simple and would work well.

Edit to add: do you have any rear panhard bar relocation brackets installed? Raising the axle side mount will help correct the roll center of the rear suspension to adjust for your lift height and will reduce body roll.

 

[Munks]

Heavy duty sway bars will help a ton. Lowering it 1-2” would help too. When you have more than 2” of lift the roll steer effects will really increase body roll.

Start with the sway bars and see how you like it. Can you move any weight lower in the truck? How is the ride height when you’re towing the trailer? Rear air bags aren’t a bad idea but lower lift height stiffer coils keeps the system simple and would work well.

Edit to add: do you have any rear panhard bar relocation brackets installed? Raising the axle side mount will help correct the roll center of the rear suspension to adjust for your lift height and will reduce body roll.

Thanks,
Can't realy go lower without changing hyperfex arms, all springs and shocks.
Already moved all heavy tools and parts under the front seats. Put it on a hard diet removing all unnecessary items.
Ride height with caravan attached is as per picture above.
Yep. Just ordered the Delta 3" bracket.

 

[BucketEighty]

Try the panhard bracket and heavy duty sway bars front and rear and see if you can get acceptable handling.

The reason to go lower is to get closer to the operating window of the suspension design. The way it sits now, if you accelerate out of a corner the suspension will force the body to roll further due to the roll steer effects from the short control arms and extreme angles. If you want to keep the ride height, you can mask some of the suspension misbehavior with some more expensive shocks.

If you’re willing to consider a lower ride height, I suspect your current shocks and front radius arms would work fine with 3” lift springs, you could run a drop hitch with 1” less drop giving the trailer less leverage on the chassis, and you’d get dual benefit of lower COG and less roll steer.

 

[greentruck]

I won't dispute BucketEighty's advice. However, airbags are the most economical/least effort potential solution. A set will run you right around $100 here in the States. The install is pretty much lifting the truck high enough to unseat the coils and drill to accommodate the airlines in the bottom spring perches.

When the bags are inflated to suit, this also tends to reduce the roll steer by making the spring less likely to be subject to the push effect from cornering, When not towing, pressure can be reduced significantly (the bags need a reduced 5psi minimum) if so if you're happy with your set-up when not towing, then the airbags will have the least effect when driving the truck in unladen form.

The last point made about lengthy drop hitch could also have another solution - reconfiguring the trailer drawbar so it's not so low, thus making possible a drawbar with a shorter drop.

 

[bug616]

That ball weight seems high. Should be around 10% of trailer/caravan weight….. What does your caravan weigh?

 

[BILT4ME]

Hi all,
I have done a fair amount of research on this site and found plenty of invaluable information.
I'm after learned opinions on which direction I should take to counter my body roll and ride issues.
Vehicle set up:
Tough dog 4 inch lift, heavy duty springs, with adjustable compression shocks, 60 thousand kms old.
Hyperfex radius arms and adjustable arms/panhards.
Heavy duty RTC steering damper.
Full suspension rebush (every single bush) and wheel alignment just completed.
New 35 r17 baja boss tires running 34lbs cold.
Full bar work all around.
Mild load out - not super heavy.

Vehicle has just been rebuilt from an offroader back to daily driver dutys.
Under normal daily driving I have compression set at 5 clicks. That's fine and reasonably comfortable. Little but rolly and slighly hard on potholes / high speed compression stuff, nice on low speed compression and controllable.
When towing my single axle caravan with ball Wright of 270kgs (about 500lbs) I have to increase the compression to 7 clicks to slow the roll. Otherwise its scarry under hard braking and cornering - body roll and swaying. At 7 clicks it is an uncomfortable jarring ride but removes the body roll.
Initially I was thinking about changing shocks to Dobinsons 3 way adjustable to dial that all out.
After searching through here I'm now unsure. I have ordered a Delta panhard relocation bracket which I'm sure will help the unsettled feeling under hard braking.
Now I'm either looking at upgraded sway bars or an airbag kit before going onto looking into changing shocks And springs.View attachment 3824499
Any real world advise would be much appreciated.

I would get rid of that horrible drawbar style hitch.
1) shorten the distance from the rear bumper to the center of the pivot. 500 lb tongue weight at that distance is multiplied with every inch (or CM) from the centerline of the rear axle.

2) raise the hitch to frame height, then raise the trailer to meet the hitch on the truck. Trailer suspension lift, taller tires on the trailer, making more of a gooseneck on the trailer side.

3) reduce tongue weight by shuffling the load on the trailer to be more balanced on the trailer axle with a slight bias (10%) more weight on the front side of the axle.

Why have a lift and big tires to have that long proboscis out the back to kill the departure angle and make towing worse?

I frequently carry a power wheelchair on the back of my 80. I have OME 2-1/2" heavy springs all around and I have Airlift air bags in the rear. This lifts the rear of the truck to correct the steering angles and make the truck more balanced. It's still very tail heavy and if I'm not careful I can get the tail wagging the dog. I will place more weight on the front bumper to make it better. The wheelchair lift is 125 lb and the wheelchair is 400 lbs, so tongue weight is 525 lbs, technically over the allowable tongue weight for the hitch.
I can tell a difference when the wheelchair is loaded if it is moved fore or aft by 2". It affects handling significantly.

 

[Munks]

I won't dispute BucketEighty's advice. However, airbags are the most economical/least effort potential solution. A set will run you right around $100 here in the States. The install is pretty much lifting the truck high enough to unseat the coils and drill to accommodate the airlines in the bottom spring perches.

When the bags are inflated to suit, this also tends to reduce the roll steer by making the spring less likely to be subject to the push effect from cornering, When not towing, pressure can be reduced significantly (the bags need a reduced 5psi minimum) if so if you're happy with your set-up when not towing, then the airbags will have the least effect when driving the truck in unladen form.

The last point made about lengthy drop hitch could also have another solution - reconfiguring the trailer drawbar so it's not so low, thus making possible a drawbar with a shorter drop.

Thanks,
Yep, I'm going to have to address the Hitch heights.

 

[Munks]

That ball weight seems high. Should be around 10% of trailer/caravan weight….. What does your caravan weigh?

Thanks.
Yes I'm aware if that. It's about 15% at the moment. It's another job on the list lol.

 

[Munks]

I would get rid of that horrible drawbar style hitch.
1) shorten the distance from the rear bumper to the center of the pivot. 500 lb tongue weight at that distance is multiplied with every inch (or CM) from the centerline of the rear axle.

2) raise the hitch to frame height, then raise the trailer to meet the hitch on the truck. Trailer suspension lift, taller tires on the trailer, making more of a gooseneck on the trailer side.

3) reduce tongue weight by shuffling the load on the trailer to be more balanced on the trailer axle with a slight bias (10%) more weight on the front side of the axle.

Why have a lift and big tires to have that long proboscis out the back to kill the departure angle and make towing worse?

I frequently carry a power wheelchair on the back of my 80. I have OME 2-1/2" heavy springs all around and I have Airlift air bags in the rear. This lifts the rear of the truck to correct the steering angles and make the truck more balanced. It's still very tail heavy and if I'm not careful I can get the tail wagging the dog. I will place more weight on the front bumper to make it better. The wheelchair lift is 125 lb and the wheelchair is 400 lbs, so tongue weight is 525 lbs, technically over the allowable tongue weight for the hitch.
I can tell a difference when the wheelchair is loaded if it is moved fore or aft by 2". It affects handling significantly.

Thanks for your reply,
Lift is high as it was an off road only 80 and I still like to off road frequently.
Hitch is long so the spare wheel clears the front of the caravan gas bottle box at full lock.
Definatly going to look at the hitch point now. Trailer hitch was lowered as I did an axel flip on the caravan. That height suited my old tow vehicle but not now.
Looking at the set up now after your and others advise, I can see the leverage issues that I have created with this set up. Looks like it's back out with the welder and sort that out.
Cheers.

 

[Munks]

I've owned this truck for 20 years in various different configurations.
I'd have to say that the Delta bracket and sway bar upgrade are the best vehicle handling upgrade that I've ever done! Should have done it years ago.