BJ42 - Electrical system woes (24v)

[Snow Peak]

Hey guys, need a little help.

Started my truck up today after work and it just baaarely started. It has been raining all day and the temperature has been around 6-7 degrees C. It sounded like the batteries were dead. One battery is from 2007 and the other from 2008 - same kind though. The longer I drove it, the wipers got slower, signals would flash at first; then just stay on. The signals usually stopped flashing while I hit the brakes.

Does this sound like an alternator issue? Or batteries? Or?

Any help would be greatly appreciated; still learning how this 24v system works

Thanks!

 

[bj40green]

Your batteries are pretty old. 7 and 6 years!
Sounds like you drained your batteries. Here are some possibilities.
1. Defective ignition key switch - no power to fuse.
2. Defective "engine" fuse and thus no power to the voltage regulator.
3. The voltage regulator is defective so there is no output on the alternator.
4. The alternator is defective and thus not charging.
5. If the alternator has output the fusible link to the battery / batteries can be defective.
6. The batteries are not taking charge.
7. ......
Time to get the voltmeter out and start checking where it goes wrong.
Do you have a wiring diagram?

Rudi

 

[Snow Peak]

Your batteries are pretty old. 7 and 6 years!
Sounds like you drained your batteries. Here are some possibilities.
1. Defective ignition key switch - no power to fuse.
2. Defective "engine" fuse and thus no power to the voltage regulator.
3. The voltage regulator is defective so there is no output on the alternator.
4. The alternator is defective and thus not charging.
5. If the alternator has output the fusible link to the battery / batteries can be defective.
6. The batteries are not taking charge.
7. ......
Time to get the voltmeter out and start checking where it goes wrong.
Do you have a wiring diagram?

Rudi

Thanks for the reply Rudi!

I don't have a wiring diagram no. The batteries are quite old indeed. The weather has gotten quite a bit colder in the last couple of days; going to get even colder later this week.

I was driving home with the wipers going (they were slow), marker lights on (no head lights), did have the heater going for about 15-20 mins until I realized it would likely be best with that off. In short, everything worked but not running at "full" power if that makes sense.

 

[bj40green]

In short, everything worked but not running at "full" power if that makes sense.

Yes, that makes sense but I think that you used up the last bit of power from your batteries and that it won't start tomorrow because by now they are dead.
Hook up to a charger ASAP.

Rudi

 

[Snow Peak]

Thanks Rudi! I appreciate the replies!

Question for you. I'll likely pick up new batteries this weekend if they don't come back too. The current ones are rated at 700CCA if I am not mistaken. Would any issues arise if I get two higher capacity batteries? There is still room in the battery trays for a bigger sized battery; which is why I ask.

Also, wondering if the alternator isn't charging them properly perhaps? How would I go about testing it? Bring it to a shop to have it bench tested?

I haven't had any starting issues in the past; just now, as it's gotten a lot colder.

Thanks again Rudi!

 

[bj40green]

The batteries: The bigger the better! You'll need them at those temperatures. 800, 850, 900CCA see what size fits in your trays.

The longer I drove it, the wipers got slower, signals would flash at first; then just stay on. The signals usually stopped flashing while I hit the brakes.

This tells me that the batteries were not charged but it tells also that you were running on the last power of the batteries. Before you start taking out the alternator in the freezing cold do a few fast voltage checks.
Hook your Voltmeter up... black lead to a good ground or the negative (low side) battery stud.
Start engine, pull the throttle a bit for high idle and check if you've Voltage on the FAT wire (White/Blue stripe) on the back of the alternator. Should be more than 26V (max is 28.8V).
If you have this voltage you'll have to follow the wiring from the alternator to the battery and see where it stops.
If you don't have Voltage on the FAT wire on the alternator you have to check if the alternator is activated by the voltage regulator.
I'm going to hunt for a diagram for you.

Rudi

 

[bj40green]

Here is a part of the wiring diagram.

On the firewall you'll find a rectangular box with a 6 wire connector. This box is the Voltage Regulator.
2 wires from this box are essential for a working charge system.
BY (Black/Yellow stripe) and WG (White/Green stripe).
- BY must have voltage when the IGN key is in the "on" position. If not.... check he "engine" fuse 15Amp and the fuse holder clips for corrosion. TIP: a fuse can look good but be defective. Check with your meter for continuity.

- WG must also have voltage when the IGN key is in the "on" position. If not..... Voltage Regulator is defective.

If you have voltage on the F terminal (White/Green stripe) but no (output) voltage on the B terminal (the FAT wire White/Blue stripe) your alternator needs rebuild or replacement.

Rudi

 

[redrook]

A lot people overlook the ground cables, The block to the frame and battery to frame . If they are 10 years old and green ,its time for new ones.

 

[Dieseler]

Check your Alt brushes

 

[Snow Peak]

Here is a part of the wiring diagram.

View attachment 998328
On the firewall you'll find a rectangular box with a 6 wire connector. This box is the Voltage Regulator.
2 wires from this box are essential for a working charge system.
BY (Black/Yellow stripe) and WG (White/Green stripe).
- BY must have voltage when the IGN key is in the "on" position. If not.... check he "engine" fuse 15Amp and the fuse holder clips for corrosion. TIP: a fuse can look good but be defective. Check with your meter for continuity.

- WG must also have voltage when the IGN key is in the "on" position. If not..... Voltage Regulator is defective.

If you have voltage on the F terminal (White/Green stripe) but no (output) voltage on the B terminal (the FAT wire White/Blue stripe) your alternator needs rebuild or replacement.

Rudi

I LOVE this site, so many helpful people! Thanks for the wiring diagram Rudi!

I went and did a little investigating; here is what I found:

I tested the batteries, individually, as they were from when I parked it on Tuesday.
Low side battery: 11.69v
High side battery: 12.09v

I then looked at the alternator. I pulled off that red rubber boot. Found a lot of white corrosion around the ring connector and nut so I cleaned those up and put it back together. I then decided to try and start it. I only glowed it for a second or two (brake light and seatbelt warning light were dim) and gave it a try. It cranked slow but managed to start. It sputtered about but started no problem; even without a proper glow cycle!

I let it idle until it smoothed out then pulled the throttle to bring up the rpms. Here is what I found:
Low side battery: 13.6v
High side battery: 13.3v
Alternator (from negative battery terminal on low side battery to the nut under the red boot): 28.0v (with throttle pulled)
Alternator (again from the negative battery terminal to the same nut): 26.2v (engine idling - no throttle)

Okay, so proceeded to keep checking things. I then turned on some accessories. This included: heater (low setting), highbeams/lights and the 4-way flashers. As I am typing this, I realized I didn't test each battery with these accessories turned on but I did test the alternator. Testing from the negative battery terminal (low side) to the same nut on the alternator, I couldn't get a measurement. My digital multimeter (set to 200v) would read the following: 1 .

It would for a split second flash a number; usually 19.69v then go back to 1 .
Hmm, not sure if maybe it's because of the vibrations? Or because the alternator is no longer charging?

I took the cover off the fusible links and took a picture just in case. I didn't end up cleaning it yet.


Fusible Links - bj42 by Tanner.K, on flickr

I'm hoping that these measurements will be helpful to you guys. I let the truck idle for a good 10-15 minutes with the headlights on (heater and 4-ways off) and it showed no signs of dimming so that is weird...

 

[Snow Peak]

A lot people overlook the ground cables, The block to the frame and battery to frame . If they are 10 years old and green ,its time for new ones.

Good tip redrook. I checked all the battery cables and grounds. Most of them were replaced back in May. I did clean up the negative wire that runs down to the frame a couple weeks ago; it's still nice and shiny

 

[Snow Peak]

Issue is back...

After cleaning up the terminal under the red boot (B?) back in November it seemed to run good. I didn't have any dimming light issues or slow cranks. The 42 sat for about 3 weeks during the holidays and after I came back it fired right up, no problems. Drove for a couple weeks to work and the issue came back.

So 3 weeks ago (January 17th, 2015) I brought it to a local LC/diesel specialty shop to have the alternator checked out. Turns out some of the grounds were insufficient and non-existent. There was a ground going from the bolt on the belt adjustment to the battery; was under sized and should have been going from the E terminal to the battery instead - fixed now.

BJ42 Alternator 24v by Tanner.K, on flickr

A ground wire was also added in, from the battery to the block; as there wasn't one before.

They said without these proper grounds the diode in the alternator went. It has now been rebuilt.

Drove it to work a few days later and on the way home the issue came back. I only had the parking lights on and the heater. The signals would stay on as well; tell tale sign the battery voltage is low.

It's been parked for the last 1.5 weeks. Fired it up today...no issues what so ever. Cranks over fast. I checked the voltage of each battery before firing it up. Low Side - 12.3v High Side - 12.2v

Tested the output from the alternator:

Idle: 26.2v
Throttle pulled: 28.1v -Maintains a steady voltage output of 28v or so even with high beams on and flashers on. Each battery has around 13.4v

I checked all the glass fuses under dash. All have continuity. I noted a small amount of corrosion INSIDE the HEAD and WIPER glass fuses though; still have continuity though.


I took a picture of the Voltage Regulator; just wanted to see if the "discolouration" on the coil is normal?

BJ42 Voltage Regulator 24v by Tanner.K, on flickr

Also noticed that after my LC had been running for a good 15mins the alternator started making a weird whirling noise. This can't be normal. Was still outputting 28v while making this noise... After looking at my "rebuilt" alternator more closely it appears to have been replaced instead of rebuilt. Here is a video of the noise:




Well, I am not sure where to go from here. Time for new batteries? Voltage Regulator?

Any help would be GREATLY appreciated!!!

Thanks!

 

[bj40green]

I took a picture of the Voltage Regulator; just wanted to see if the "discoloration" on the coil is normal?

No, that's not normal. I think that your VR is on his way out and causing intermittent failure, which explains your problems.
Replace it before it looks like this one:

Also noticed that after my LC had been running for a good 15mins the alternator started making a weird whirling noise. This can't be normal. Was still outputting 28v while making this noise... After looking at my "rebuilt" alternator more closely it appears to have been replaced instead of rebuilt.

That alternator doesn't sound good to me. I assume you have some warranty so...... back to that shop.

Rudi

 

[Snow Peak]

Thanks for the reply Rudi! I really appreciate it! I'll look into finding a new VR. I thought it sounded weird; I'll head back to the shop next week and get the alternator looked at.

 

[bj40green]

Part# for the VR is 27700-57010 says my EPC.

Rudi

 

[Snow Peak]

Ah great, so that is what it is! The sticker on mine reads only 27700-570 ...The rest is worn off. I think they're discontinued from Toyota but I'll check. If they are, I'll start looking for used ones.

 

[DEADSALT]

did you recently put a stereo in your rig?

 

[Snow Peak]

did you recently put a stereo in your rig?

First thing the guy at the parts shop said when I called, asking for a voltage regulator. I haven't installed anything on the 42. It's bone stock. No stereo or anything aftermarket has been installed.

I tracked down a used, couldn't find a new, voltage regulator. Should have it in a couple days. I'm going to replace the batteries this weekend as well, given their age (7&8 years). I'll also get the "rebuilt" alternator checked out before installing the "new" voltage regulator and batteries; just in case it has some issues with it.

Hoping this fixes the issue! *keeping fingers crossed*!

 

[Dieseler]

Normally if the batteries are not equal as in bought at the same time and same cranking amps and same brand I have found it leads to the problems you have mentioned that is just my experience with 24V cruisers such as the BJ42 and the HJ61 .
I agree your VR looks like it has had some over heating issue by the discoloring of the insulator coating yes the VR is next to impossible to find might have luck in Japan since it uses the same unit as the 41 and 44 and possibly early BJ70/71 I have not checked the part number on the BJ70/71 to confirm.
You mentioned it looked like the shop replaced the alt rather than rebuild your old one I am curious where they would have found a new one for a 42 it is possible they just cleaned it up , Alts in 24V with the vac pump are a very hard part to find these days.
Good luck with your electrical gremlin issue they can drive you crazy at times hopefully you correct it keep the post going.

 

[Snow Peak]

Normally if the batteries are not equal as in bought at the same time and same cranking amps and same brand I have found it leads to the problems you have mentioned that is just my experience with 24V cruisers such as the BJ42 and the HJ61 .
I agree your VR looks like it has had some over heating issue by the discoloring of the insulator coating yes the VR is next to impossible to find might have luck in Japan since it uses the same unit as the 41 and 44 and possibly early BJ70/71 I have not checked the part number on the BJ70/71 to confirm.
You mentioned it looked like the shop replaced the alt rather than rebuild your old one I am curious where they would have found a new one for a 42 it is possible they just cleaned it up , Alts in 24V with the vac pump are a very hard part to find these days.
Good luck with your electrical gremlin issue they can drive you crazy at times hopefully you correct it keep the post going.

Thanks Dieseler.

I received my used VR today. Took the cover off and it has a very similar discoloration on the insulation that is around the coil. Argh! Well, haven't tried it yet so who knows if it'll work.

I am dropping the alternator off at the shop tomorrow; likely won't be picking it back up until the following Saturday. I am also going to be buying new batteries this weekend (most likely). So I'll install everything at the same time and hope the issue is fixed. If the VR is indeed the issue and the "new" one doesn't work, well, not sure what I'll do from here.

I'll keep you guys updated!

On a side note, what are the proper ground locations?

So far the main grounds I have are:

- E terminal on Alternator to battery (picture above)
- Battery to frame
- Battery to block
- Block (slave cylinder) to frame

Any more that I should have?