Battery Isolators...

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Any Blue Sea Systems product with which a customer is not satisfied may be returned for a refund or replacement at any time.
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Maybe the relay will fail someday, but they're counting on it surviving for the long haul. Blue Sea seems pretty good about publishing "real-world" ratings of their switches, too.

Mobi-arc, I'm curious: will your solid-state isolator/relay be cost-competitive with a system based around this Blue Sea relay, or have a comparable warranty?
 
In respect to pricing, our expectation is to be cost-comparable with other "similar" products on the market. Then again, when you weigh features and benfits, we think we bring some interesting options to the table. The Blue Sea product is a solenoid/contactor/relay. Our isolator line can be configured to be a DC switch, an isolator, and a battery combiner. It can receive a remote harness containing a button. When the button is depressed, it disables the isolation feature and joins the batteries together. As a safety, when the isolation feature is disabled, a 90 decibel alarm will alert the driver that the isolator is not isolating. The alarm also serves as a safety feature in the event of a failure. This insures that the driver is aware that a failure has ocurred and can take action before depleting one's entire battery reserves. This is all in a package that you can fit in the palm of your hand, has no moving parts, and is impervious to water and vibration.

In respect to warranty, it will likely carry your typical one year warranty. It has no moving parts so it should last forever.

I'm sure the Blue Sea solenoid is fine product. We simply subscribe to the generally accepted concept that if a product does not have moving parts, it provides a greater probability of the product lasting longer. Why do we own Land Cruisers? It provides a greater probability for years of trouble-free use. Our isolator line is designed around that concept. Could we build a "smart solenoid?" In a New York minute. Could we build standard or schotkey rectifier packages? Piece of cake. Can we design a product that's 1/5 the size and 30 times the efficiency of other products on the market, and do so in a package that generates NO heat with no moving parts? Well, that's the goal and we hope to get it out the door as quickly as possible.

Scott
 
mobi-arc said:
In respect to warranty, it will likely carry your typical one year warranty. It has no moving parts so it should last forever.
Click to expand...

We all agree that a box with no moving parts should last forever so why the 1 year warranty as compared to the Blue Sea Lifetime warranty?

Just curious.

-B-
 
Scott, a solid state device that can isolate & parallel batteries with no voltage drop, producing no heat, and drawing little energy would be a first and quite a feat. I look foreward to seeing spec's & details. but it will not be in time for the dual batt project in my FZJ80.

I have been interested in the Blue sea solenoid (standard 9012 not the auto sensing 9112) since finding a link to it in the 80 section. called them up and talked to one of thier reps, he stated they are suplied by a subcontractor, they took a solenoid used in a Electic vehicle (I think he said GM EV1?) and "upgraded the specs for marine use"

did some digging online and I found Tyco electronics markets 2 lines of these solenoids and is either the suplier to Blue sea or they have a common supplier. Tyco sells it with many diffrent opions

kilovac cap200
Kilovac Ev200

been searching EV forums looking for a cheaper source for one, they were available for arround $65 in 2000/2001 but have not found a current price that low. seam to be about $100 and up now. they seam to be well thought off in smaller EV convertions, in larger higher amp installs when they have to break current higher than thier rating they are not reliable.

asked about using a capacitor in parallel with the contacts he stated was not necisary with the amperage I will be making/breaking he did sugest using one in parallel with the control contol input as the Pulse width modulation circuit that keeps the contact closed makes electrical noise, sounds like it draws a square wave current averaging .13A, frquency and duty cycle unknown. also asked about case materal, it is some kind of plastic, exact type unknown,

there are some diffrences in the specs (mailny voltage) I have been trying to figure out if they are acually diffrent or if the data is just truncated in the Blue sea version. unless i can find the Kilovac in the $60-$70 range I will pick up the blue-sea for the life time warrenty.

besides price these solenoids/contactors are the best I have found, low power use, sealed, good reliability, compact,

anyway tomorro if it is not to cold going to wire in a rear heat switch in the cab as the solenoid control switch, will have auto (alturnator good wire) off and constand parallel with matching backlighting and switch form factor to the rest of the dash also has built in lights for the diffrent positions.

sorry for the spelling grammer, bu my windows machine died last week. open office under linux is giving me problems. have to type bareback.
 
Beowulf said:
We all agree that a box with no moving parts should last forever so why the 1 year warranty as compared to the Blue Sea Lifetime warranty?

Just curious.

-B-
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Somehow, I knew I would be fielding this question. The answer is...simply a business decision. You also have to consider the products. The Blue Sea product is a solenoid. As solenoids are incredibly common, the actual cost of the item, on the manufacting side, is probably $10-$20 and it's being sold for dramatically more than that. As they're competing with every other marine solenoid vendor, the marketing mileage achieved by offering a warranty in perpetuity theoretically captures incrementally more business to offset the units they have to replace annually. For better or for worse, our isolator line cannot be manufactured for $10-$20. Perhaps with insane volume, yes. But not now. It's also very easy to start with a 1 year warranty, and later opt to extend it out.

It's kind of funny. We deal with alternators all the time on the MOBI-ARC side. I have these guys call with an interest in MOBI-ARC and ask if they can attach the stock alternator to the control unit. In most cases, the answer is yes, but I usually qualify that by asking them if their alternator is in good condition. I love it when they tell me "yes, it's pretty new." Then they proceed to tell me that they purchased some big auto-chain-store brand for like $28 with a "lifetime" warranty. Yea, it goes sideways every six months.....but it's a new alternator! My point is that the lifetime warranty isn't necessarily an indication of a stellar, bullet-proof, amazing product. In my opinion, it's usually used as a marketing tool where a company weighs risk verses reward and rolls the dice. From a consumer standpoint, it's a very tempting dangling carrot.

Scott
 
mobi-arc said:
From a consumer standpoint, it's a very tempting dangling carrot.
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Yep. And in the case of a few of us that are following this thread, that lifetime warranty is probably going to seal the deal.

-B-
 
Beowulf said:
Yep. And in the case of a few of us that are following this thread, that lifetime warranty is probably going to seal the deal.

-B-
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Well, we can't make everybody happy.
 
Beowulf said:
Yep. And in the case of a few of us that are following this thread, that lifetime warranty is probably going to seal the deal.
Click to expand...

We-elll... I'd say that in Blue Sea's case, it helps me think they have confidence in their stuff. I think they make good products, and I doubt they get that many returns. Scott's point about cheap-ass alternators from Pep Boys and the rest is well-taken, though. I'm much more likely to buy a product that I perceive as high-quality than an obviously cheap one that's got a lifetime warranty on it. Lifetime-warranted parts that break out in the middle of nowhere are NOT usually good deals...
 
A buddy had a "Lifetime" starter on his rig at the far end of hells revenge... third one in a year but that one hurt the most...

I'm saving for the Mobi...
 
Beowulf said:
Yep. And in the case of a few of us that are following this thread, that lifetime warranty is probably going to seal the deal.

-B-
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Yes, I deliberately avoid any product with a lifetime warranty. Especially batteries, alternators, etc because they are the crappiest products out there. So if it has a lifetime warranty I start looking at the competition that has specifications and data to back up their claims.

Dunbar
 
Dunbar,

Below is the the Blue Sea guarantee. Why would you want to avoid a product with this guarantee?

"Any Blue Sea Systems product with which a customer is not satisfied may
be returned for a refund or replacement at any time."
 
I love this guy's dual battery approach. His rationale for the simple on/off/both switch was to keep the wiring simple. :D

Dualbattery6.jpg



And here's the switch. Convienient if less than elegant.

Dualbattery5.jpg


-B-
 
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The disadvantage is that system is a POS. It's just a relay, a couple of fuses, and some wire that is WAY too small. There are no advantages.

-B-
 
RavenTai said:
I have been interested in the Blue sea solenoid (standard 9012 not the auto sensing 9112) since finding a link to it in the 80 section. called them up and talked to one of thier reps, he stated they are suplied by a subcontractor, they took a solenoid used in a Electic vehicle (I think he said GM EV1?) and "upgraded the specs for marine use"

did some digging online and I found Tyco electronics markets 2 lines of these solenoids and is either the suplier to Blue sea or they have a common supplier. Tyco sells it with many diffrent opions

kilovac cap200
Kilovac Ev200 .
Click to expand...

Mr Bareback (aka Raven) - any progress on wiring up your dual setup? I'm liking the Bluesea 9112 setup as it seems to make the most sense to me.

Anybody buy this solenoid and switch system?

Here's a link to the switch for controlling it - switch

anybody know if I can easily mount that in one of the dashboard switch punch outs in an 80 series?

Mobi - How's it going with your unit? I didn't think anyone would be slower than me as I've been stalling for 6 months to get around to mounting my 2nd battery. I'm close to doing the install minus the wiring. What was your spec for voltage drop on say 40 amps?

What's your release date?

R

edit... corrected my many spelling mistakes.....
 
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Riley,

I am working on the wiring diagram for my setup and I also like this new Bluesea 9112. (Thanks Rich!)

Anyone have any comments on their sample wiring diagram?

Bluesea_9112_Wiring_Example.jpg


-B-
 
Would you guys be interested in a group buy if I could get the BlueSea 9112's for ~$130? I'm friends with the manager of my local west marine and he usually helps me out on prices. If I can get enough of an order together it might work. I won't be able to talk to him about it until Monday the 10th, but I'll see what I can do.

Ary
 
Beowulf said:
Riley,

I am working on the wiring diagram for my setup and I also like this new Bluesea 9112. (Thanks Rich!)

Anyone have any comments on their sample wiring diagram?

-B-
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B, that's pretty much how I'm planning to do my wiring.

I was thinking of moving the headlights over to the aux battery by flipping the slee harness. That way I can leave my headlights on and not have to worry about killing my starting battery. Anyone see any reason not to do this?

Ary
 
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