Battery Isolators...
- Thread starter woody
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Brian,
We're still deciding where to make the performance splits and pricing splits. The assembly is a little more involved so clearly we won't be at the $35 solenoid level. We just got the PCB's back and like any new product, our initial run will be quite small. And like most things, the more the we make, the more the price will come down. In order to be competitive, at the 250a capacity, we'll be shy of the $200 mark. I'll keep you posted.
We're still deciding where to make the performance splits and pricing splits. The assembly is a little more involved so clearly we won't be at the $35 solenoid level. We just got the PCB's back and like any new product, our initial run will be quite small. And like most things, the more the we make, the more the price will come down. In order to be competitive, at the 250a capacity, we'll be shy of the $200 mark. I'll keep you posted.
Ive been using a pirahna unit which just sh1t itself, which was rated at 150 amp, but I run a silver contact solonoid which gets its power from the winch motor, so if the winch motor is being used, it triggers the solonoid to join the batteries, taking the load away from the piranha unit.
I have the winch hooked to the main battery, because it charges faster, and I run all my acc from the aux battery, inc low beam headlights, so I can work/set up camp in the dark, with the engine off, if need be.
I use the oddysey 1000cca batteries.
I also have a 3rd battery pack, which plugs into the acc plug, so it stops charging when the ign is off, which is a gell cell 42 ah battery, for running the camp lights, the camp chair massager and heater, the invertor for the elec blanket in the swag etc.
I have the winch hooked to the main battery, because it charges faster, and I run all my acc from the aux battery, inc low beam headlights, so I can work/set up camp in the dark, with the engine off, if need be.
I use the oddysey 1000cca batteries.
I also have a 3rd battery pack, which plugs into the acc plug, so it stops charging when the ign is off, which is a gell cell 42 ah battery, for running the camp lights, the camp chair massager and heater, the invertor for the elec blanket in the swag etc.
These are all really good questions and clearly, in order to make an educated decision, it's important to understand WHY the MOBI-ISOLATOR is different and/or better than Pirahna, Hellroaring, Sure Poower, solenoids, etc... What I suggest is this: call us and ask to speak to the engineering department. Engineering will explain what all those specs on those other websites mean, explain how the MOBI unit will perform, then an informed and educated decision can be made. 858-720-1339
Here's a quick pic of our prototype just so you can get an idea of the scale. The packaging and graphics are still a moving target. www.mobi-arc.com/comp.jpg
Here's a quick pic of our prototype just so you can get an idea of the scale. The packaging and graphics are still a moving target. www.mobi-arc.com/comp.jpg
>> What I suggest is this: <<
And what I respectfully suggest is that you get someone from your engineering department to post answers to our questions here on IH8MUD where you chose to introduce the product.
It makes no sense for each of us that are interested to individually call to get questions answered then each of us would have our interpretation of those answers and each of us would decide what, if anything, we would post back to this forum.
-B-
And what I respectfully suggest is that you get someone from your engineering department to post answers to our questions here on IH8MUD where you chose to introduce the product.
It makes no sense for each of us that are interested to individually call to get questions answered then each of us would have our interpretation of those answers and each of us would decide what, if anything, we would post back to this forum.
-B-
Beowulf said:
Beowulf, the product is not ready for distribution yet. We haven't put together a spec sheet or a brochure....we haven't even finalized the packaging.
However much we'd like to have engineers spending their time on the internet, their time is better spent doing what they do best. Were not trying to be flip, we're trying to run a business and complete new products. When we've got more specs and pics available, we'll post them. We're happy to address questions over the phone.
I must have misunderstood your post #18. Maybe you should have posted over in the Vendor section where people would expect to see marketing hype.
-B-
-B-
Beowulf said:
Sorry to mislead you. I thought the "It's currently being ramped-up for production" was fairly clear. It was simply meant as an FYI to those flirting with purchasing isolators.
Scott
Though I agree advertorials should go over in vendor section, its a fine line when people who are on the board and run a business, and are the people generally looked to for information, when someone is doing something along the lines of what they do, so some respect, as well as some slack should certainly be afforded to those who spend time answering, offering asistance, or group buy pricing etc.
And Mobi-Arc is only 30 odd posts young on here so far, so im sure he will pick up on the "less is more" for the threads here, when passing on product information
And Mobi-Arc is only 30 odd posts young on here so far, so im sure he will pick up on the "less is more" for the threads here, when passing on product information
I think the posts from Mobi-arc are EXACTLY what's needed on here. His post was not a "I have the best price, buy it from me". His post was technical about why some isolators are better than others and why the one they are making they feel is the best, not just the cheapest, etc, but actual real knowledge about a better way to make a device.
IMO that is exactly what a vendor should do, yes even on here. If I'm about to buy a rear bumper by so-and-so and ask for advice, and Christo writes in and tells me that I really should look at his bumper before dropping the money on the other because they have done tests and they think their's is a better design and will last better 4wheeling. That is EXACTLY what I would want to hear, would Christo be pushing his product, not one bit, he is introducing his product and giving you options.
Let's just say that Mobi-arc had not posted anything in this thread, a few people go out and buy isolators from reading on here. Then a month or so down the road, we discover the isolators by Mobi-arc, and people PM him and say why didn't you atleast mention you were building one that is WAY better than any of the others???
You can't have it both ways people, if you want vendors on here with real knowledge, real experience then you have to be able to listen to them. Blindly do what they say? No, ofcourse not, but I for one would rather hear from someone who is selling these products and knows first-hand what they would recommend versus a bunch of other people chatting about things they don't fully understand.
There are plenty of boards with people jabbering about crap they don't know or understand, let this be a board where we have real experts and LET THEM TALK/EXPLAIN/TEACH.
Ok, off the soapbox, just pisses me off when people get yelled at for helping others make a good decision.
IMO that is exactly what a vendor should do, yes even on here. If I'm about to buy a rear bumper by so-and-so and ask for advice, and Christo writes in and tells me that I really should look at his bumper before dropping the money on the other because they have done tests and they think their's is a better design and will last better 4wheeling. That is EXACTLY what I would want to hear, would Christo be pushing his product, not one bit, he is introducing his product and giving you options.
Let's just say that Mobi-arc had not posted anything in this thread, a few people go out and buy isolators from reading on here. Then a month or so down the road, we discover the isolators by Mobi-arc, and people PM him and say why didn't you atleast mention you were building one that is WAY better than any of the others???
You can't have it both ways people, if you want vendors on here with real knowledge, real experience then you have to be able to listen to them. Blindly do what they say? No, ofcourse not, but I for one would rather hear from someone who is selling these products and knows first-hand what they would recommend versus a bunch of other people chatting about things they don't fully understand.
There are plenty of boards with people jabbering about crap they don't know or understand, let this be a board where we have real experts and LET THEM TALK/EXPLAIN/TEACH.
Ok, off the soapbox, just pisses me off when people get yelled at for helping others make a good decision.
- Thread starter
- #32
additionally, Mobi's been on the board for about 9 or more months...if I'd had an issue with the posts, believe me, I'd have said it
Hell, even I follow the unspoken Vendor "rules"......lol
However, once it's ready, I'd expect a pimp in the Vendor corner....
Hell, even I follow the unspoken Vendor "rules"......lol
However, once it's ready, I'd expect a pimp in the Vendor corner....
>> just pisses me off when people get yelled at for helping others make a good decision. <<
Gee Brodis, seems like you're the only one yelling.
Scott posted that they are about to release a great product that has better specs than the competion.
I politely asked for a comparison to the one that Yomama uses and recommended to me as I am in the market to buy one.
He replied that the product isn't ready and that we should call the engineers if we want specs or a comparison to other products.
I politely asked for the engineers to take a few minutes and reply here in this thread so anyone that is interested would benefit from those answers and those answers would be here for people to read a year from now rather than evaporating with a phone call. I still feel this is a reasonable request for someone that is targeting this specific market.
He replied that the product isn't ready, specs are not available, and the engineers are too busy to answer any questions on-line.
I politely suggested that future marketing hype be moved to the Vendor section. Here or the Tech sections would be a good place once they can discuss the technical details of the product.
Now if you can read his posts in this thread and make an informed decision on the *facts* of why the Mobi-Arc isolator is truly better than all the other products then you're clairvoyant because he hasn't posted any hard data to back up the marketing claim.
And if that pi$$e$ you off then that's your problem.
-B-
Gee Brodis, seems like you're the only one yelling.
Scott posted that they are about to release a great product that has better specs than the competion.
I politely asked for a comparison to the one that Yomama uses and recommended to me as I am in the market to buy one.
He replied that the product isn't ready and that we should call the engineers if we want specs or a comparison to other products.
I politely asked for the engineers to take a few minutes and reply here in this thread so anyone that is interested would benefit from those answers and those answers would be here for people to read a year from now rather than evaporating with a phone call. I still feel this is a reasonable request for someone that is targeting this specific market.
He replied that the product isn't ready, specs are not available, and the engineers are too busy to answer any questions on-line.
I politely suggested that future marketing hype be moved to the Vendor section. Here or the Tech sections would be a good place once they can discuss the technical details of the product.
Now if you can read his posts in this thread and make an informed decision on the *facts* of why the Mobi-Arc isolator is truly better than all the other products then you're clairvoyant because he hasn't posted any hard data to back up the marketing claim.
And if that pi$$e$ you off then that's your problem.
-B-
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Check this out: http://www.bluesea.com/product.asp?Product_Id=22756&d_Id=7458&l1=7458&l2=
Great specs and guaranteed forever. Who will match that? Less than $200. They also have a non automatic verson that sells for a bit over $100. Of the battery paralleling solenoids I have researched Bluesea products are at the very top of my list.
Their manual battery switches are also the best I have seen.
Great specs and guaranteed forever. Who will match that? Less than $200. They also have a non automatic verson that sells for a bit over $100. Of the battery paralleling solenoids I have researched Bluesea products are at the very top of my list.
Their manual battery switches are also the best I have seen.
Beowulf said:
Do you think we couldnt work out what was said, so recapped your version for us?
or are you trying to sway us to your way of thinking?
If YOU want the info, you know where to find it, as Mobi has told you, if you dont want it, because it isnt on your terms, go buy what suits.....
May I suggest checking your Wheaties for piss prior to taking the first bite? Chill 
I reacted the same way Beo did.. first post was a bunch of hype with no tech. I was suprised when Mobi was reluctant to give any technical details as to what is different about the *design / engineering* of their product.
To be honest, if Mobi's company didn't already produce the Mobi-Arc and he hadn't posted a picture of the product, I'd be inclined to think he was full of it. However, the information that has been posted will keep me interested in the product. I hope that within the next few weeks, the company can find the time to post some details.
This is a great place for *free*, *directed* marketing. I would think that the reception of Mobi's post and the interest it generated would have resulted in a better response with the requested details. It's not like we're asking for much. I value my time just as much as Mobi's engineers. The difference is that I'm not trying to sell Mobi something.
I reacted the same way Beo did.. first post was a bunch of hype with no tech. I was suprised when Mobi was reluctant to give any technical details as to what is different about the *design / engineering* of their product.
To be honest, if Mobi's company didn't already produce the Mobi-Arc and he hadn't posted a picture of the product, I'd be inclined to think he was full of it. However, the information that has been posted will keep me interested in the product. I hope that within the next few weeks, the company can find the time to post some details.
This is a great place for *free*, *directed* marketing. I would think that the reception of Mobi's post and the interest it generated would have resulted in a better response with the requested details. It's not like we're asking for much. I value my time just as much as Mobi's engineers. The difference is that I'm not trying to sell Mobi something.
Wow. Let's all play nice. The only spec which which should mean anything to anybody is how much loss is there through the rectifier. As stated below, we've measured 70 millivolts at 200a. Those who have an appreciation for engineering are impressed. Those who don't, the number means absolutely nothing. Let me put it in perspective: there's more resistance at 200 amps through a 16" piece of #4 welding cable than through the MOBI-ISOLATOR. At 200 amps, the MOBI-ISOLATOR will dissipate 5 to 10 watts which is nothing. The price is soft but will likely be under $200. The package is soft but the enclosure will be approximately 4x1x1 and requires no ventilation or airflow. We're providing this info as a "heads-up" to those who are in the market for isolators. We're getting close and should have production units available in the next 30-60 days. Those who have an interest, our product may be worth considering when making an educated decision.
Thanks guys.
Scott
Thanks guys.
Scott
Scott, why do you say "The only spec which which should mean anything to anybody is how much loss is there through the rectifier." ?
Depending on the implmentation requirements, there are a number of significant factors. The voltage drop across switching or isolation mechanism is only one of many factors that need to be dealt with in order to provide an effective solution.
Depending on the implmentation requirements, there are a number of significant factors. The voltage drop across switching or isolation mechanism is only one of many factors that need to be dealt with in order to provide an effective solution.
Rich said:
Clearly there are lots of factors when making a decision. An isolator is a one-way valve for electricity. Like eveything engineered, there's always a trade-off.
The solenoid is a mechanical disconnect. The upside is price and simplicity, the downside is it's guaranteed to wear out and become less efficient over time. The silicon rectifier and schottkey rectifier are great because you now have no moving parts when creating the one way valve. No moving parts is generally accepted as a way of increasing product longevity. The downside: there are inherent losses with those components. As an example, the isolator manufactured by Sure Power (www.mobi-arc.com/comp.jpg) drops essentially one volt at 100a and manifests this in the form of heat which then has to be dissipated. Schottkey units are more effecient, but they are extremely cost prohibitive and drop about half as much as the silicon rectifier which again is dissipated as heat. This lack of efficiency is why most isolators are potted and bonded to three to four pounds of aluminum fins.
Now the MOBI-ISOLATOR, in comparison to the methods I've described, is much more efficient. It will be much smaller. It won't be the most moderately-priced isolator on the market. In our opinion, it's better in many different ways and will carry a price appropriate for such product.
Like anything you guys buy, you'll compare it other things on the market and factor in variables like, price, ease of installation, performance, efficiency, warranty, and application criteria. If you find value in the product, appreciate the engineering that's gone into it, and serves your purposes, then it may be worth considering. If it's not the right fit, if you prefer solenoids or isolators with blue annodized aluminum fins because they look cool, then the MOBI-ISOLATOR may not be the choice for you.
When we've put together a few production units, take pictures, and put together a spec sheet, it'll be available on our website and I'll post it here for those who care.
Again, this information was simply meant as a "heads-up, we've got something cool in the pipeline." We weren't trying to be coy, cause commotion, or use a "non-vendor" thread as a distribution channel. We simply saw "battery isolator" as a topic and thought we'd drop a "heads-up" post.
Scott
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