Bad oil pump??! (1 Viewer)

[mwhit13]

I've searched Guys, so take it easy. 93LC with 230K and of course I let my sister drive my truck, never having any problems in the last couple years. Thankfuly she's aware enough to hear it knocking out of no where and pulls into a strangers drive. I only assume its the oil pump. The truck is 2hrs away so I'm looking for a way to drag it home. I don't see any if any oil pump replacements. Obviously its mechanical, so is this something I can do in the strangers drive way or do oil pumps actually go out on these magnificent creations. Clogged oil filter? Naturally it burns oil so there is a constant supply of fresh oil, Im all ears and will take some "constructive" criticism to get her back home.
Thanks for all your help... I hope .

 

[jpoole]

Not enough information here to be specific but it doesn't sound like you know much yet either. All sorts of questions like:

• is there enough oil in it now?
• was there work done on it recently?
• what's the state of the cooling system?
• etc.

all come to mind for me as possibly relevant. I'm sure a quick on-site inspection will yield a ton of helpful info.

As far as your oil pump question one possibly related (at least if work was done on it recently) item shows up in post #5 on this thread:

Low oil pressure, any suggestions??!??

forum.ih8mud.com

Have you checked the main crank pulley? It needs to be at 304 ft-lbs. If it is not tight the oil pump slips and you loose pressure.

Anyway, no point in more conjecture from me. If you want to arm up on possibly relevant information get your beverage of choice, run the following search in Google and dig in:

fzj80 oil pressure knocking site:forum.ih8mud.com

 

[jpoole]

OK, another blind throw of the dart that may be relevant:

If you're using a WIX oil filter read this

forum.ih8mud.com

 

[IdahoDoug]

You need accurate information from your sister. Hopefully she will shoot you straight if she let it run out of oil, NOT quickly find someone to put oil up to the dipstick and then call and say "Yes, the oil is fine." You need accurate information. A knock could be anything from a chunk of a V belt falling off, to the exhaust knocking against the frame, etc. Agree with above - the sum total of what you/us know is "a knock". From your sister.

 

[mwhit13]

You need accurate information from your sister. Hopefully she will shoot you straight if she let it run out of oil, NOT quickly find someone to put oil up to the dipstick and then call and say "Yes, the oil is fine." You need accurate information. A knock could be anything from a chunk of a V belt falling off, to the exhaust knocking against the frame, etc. Agree with above - the sum total of what you/us know is "a knock". From your sister.

The sister in question isn't exactly helpless. She knows what a knock is and the gentleman's house to which she stopped also confirmed what he believed to be a knock. Yes, the engine had plenty of oil, no issues with cooling system, no maintenance in recent years. The slipping of the oil pump is interesting. I agree i need to get hands on it to have a better understanding of whats going on but like i said its 2hrs away so im trying to get as many past experiences as possible. Basically im looking for the guy who says "the oil cap probably fell off"... Thank you guys thus far.

 

[BILT4ME]

Frequent cause of knocks are:

PS pump
Lost oil pressure
Exhaust leak
Bad oil filter causing low oil pressure.

The oil pump on these is driven by the compression on the harmonic balancer. It MUST be tightened to 304 lb-ft.

The same thing also drives the PS pump.

If the truck has had any recent service that relates to the harmonic balancer, it could have caused low oil pressure.

The oil pump on these do not typically fail.

You will have to diagnose actual low oil pressure or determine other cause.

The oil pressure gauge on these is more of a suggestion than accurate. These are known to be way off. To field diagnose oil pressure will be difficult, as the port to pull from is NOT a standard pipe thread. I don't recall the spec, but I know @NLXTACY knows it.

Wix (also NAPA Gold) oil filters have been shown to have a failure rate on the model for this engine, so take along a new oil filter of any brand other than those.

Take along:
3/4 breaker bar
Socket for harmonic balancer 22 mm i think
3 ft cheater pipe for breaker bar
Oil filter
Oil
Oil filter wrench
Drain pan
Metric sockets and end wrenches for belt adjustment

Good luck!

 

[Shipwreck]

Try to identify the location of the knock. Is it engine rpm related? Upper or lower engine? Driver or passenger side? Does it happen only when the truck is moving? An engine stethoscope can be any old stick, tree branch, fishing pole, etc. Your sister might be able to do this before you drive 2 hours.
What does the oil gauge read? Why assume oil pump? In addition to the slipping oil pump / harmonic balancer, low oil pressure combined with a bottom engine knock can indicate a spun rod bearing.

 

[NLXTACY]

To field diagnose oil pressure will be difficult, as the port to pull from is NOT a standard pipe thread. I don't recall the spec, but I know @NLXTACY knows it.

The Toyota oil sender uses a BSPT in the 1/8” variant. NPT in the 1/8” variant is so close to being the same as BSPT (27 vs 28 threads per inch) that they are commonly used together without issue. That only works in the 1/8” size. All other pipe threads variants don’t match as close.

 

[mwhit13]

The Toyota oil sender uses a BSPT in the 1/8” variant. NPT in the 1/8” variant is so close to being the same as BSPT (27 vs 28 threads per inch) that they are commonly used together without issue. That only works in the 1/8” size. All other pipe threads variants don’t match as close.

BLT4ME & NLXTACY, Thanks for that. Scrounging for gauges, hoses, and fittings now.
The PS relation intrigues me. Thats the only thing that leaks but its a minor leak. She also said there was no loss of PS. Thanks for the list of materials. Gives me a bit more confidence to leave the trailer and take the tool bag.

Shipwreck, Fortunately she was smart enough to kill it as soon as possible so i dont know if it will idle normal or not. I only assume oil pump related because there was no life in the gauge. That and the knocking.

So lets say the oil pump is fine and oil is actually being delivered. Is there any major concern of starting the engine to drive it onto a trailer?

 

[jpoole]

@mwhit13 As you probably know well the stock oil pressure gauge reading, at idle, is likely to lead someone not familiar with these to suspect that oil pressure is gone. It's speculation, and you have a knock to diagnose either way, but it seems pretty possible that the low-reading stock gauge may be misleading. I'm hoping your knock is associated with an easier/cheaper peripheral.

Read up on how to torque the crank pulley bolt if you plan to check that. It seems less likely as an issue since you've not had work done recently and power steering is fine but if you do have an oil pressure issue this torque will be worth checking. You can either use a special tool to hold the harmonic balancer or you can use a long socket on a flex plate bolt to hold the crank while you torque. The socket-on-flexplate is easy and works well but read up on it here to make sure you have the right socket and know how to do it before you are on-site.

 

[mwhit13]

Never would have found that inspection plate. Thanks JPoole

 

[mwhit13]

Ok, I think you all have given me enough ammo to fight with. Ill update soon. Thank you all for your input.

 

[BILT4ME]

It's a 14 mm impact socket on the flex plate.

Don't forget to remove it before start up or you'll have much bigger problems.....

 

[BILT4ME]

A

BLT4ME & NLXTACY, Thanks for that. Scrounging for gauges, hoses, and fittings now.
The PS relation intrigues me. Thats the only thing that leaks but its a minor leak. She also said there was no loss of PS. Thanks for the list of materials. Gives me a bit more confidence to leave the trailer and take the tool bag.

Shipwreck, Fortunately she was smart enough to kill it as soon as possible so i dont know if it will idle normal or not. I only assume oil pump related because there was no life in the gauge. That and the knocking.

So lets say the oil pump is fine and oil is actually being delivered. Is there any major concern of starting the engine to drive it onto a trailer?

Any damage done is already done. Pulling it on a trailer will not really make it worse unless you decide to gouge on it hard.

 

[mwhit13]

Well I got the truck back this afternoon and dove in. Drained the oil and changed the filter. While I waited for the oil to stop dripping I decided to check the crank bolt. I don't think it anywhere near 300ftlbs but snug. Probably should have troubleshot one at a time to get a good idea of what it could have been. Im sure the oil wasn't that old seeing how Its not my daily driver. Filled it up and tried to crank it over a few times before it had a chance to start. Upon starting it rattled like you would imagine but slowly quieted down although there is still a knock/loud tick in the rear of the engine. Took some ear muffs and a broom handle to act as a stethoscope and it sounds like its coming from the rear cylinder. Not so much in the valve cover but mid to low engine. Seems to be the loudest coming out of the rear exhaust pipe. Sounds like I need to start researching rebuilding.
Thank you all for your help. Never fails

 

[jpoole]

Sorry for what looks like bad news.

Any ideas for how the crank bolt became too loose to effectively drive the pump? I assume service was done without correct re-torque at some point and it just went unnoticed until this event but it still seems odd to pop up relatively out of the blue like that.

Good luck figuring out your next steps and I hope one or more of your many options for getting the 80 back on it's feet come together easily for you.

 

[mwhit13]

No, no idea at all. Thanks J. Ill be in touch.

 

[mwhit13]

Hey guys, real quick. Im still digging into it. took the valve cover off and the oil pan. can really see much of the bottom end because of that plate covering. Is this just tramp metal chewed up or something significant and identifiable? It is non ferrous I'm just not sure what all is aluminum that would have been damaged.
Doing leak down tomorrow.

Thanks

 

[mwhit13]

found in the oil pan, btw. didn't have much in the filter. Glittery, but minimal..