I have heard the argument that Armor (bumpers, sliders etc) are just a waste of valuable payload.
Opinions?
Opinions?
Armor
- Thread starter hks3sgte
- Start date
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I guess it depends what type of situation you want to plan for. If you know for sure the type of terrain is not going to be bad/difficult/ect to warrant armor then no. Since I want plan a rig build for worse case scenarios, I will armor up. One of the first things you have to do is to get the spare tire from under the vehicle. So it is either going to be on a roof rack or bumper. Mounting it in the back is another option, but may eat up valuable space.
Since this is the expedition section, I assume you are talking about an expedition rig.
A very important part of an expedition, and of traveling alone in remote areas, is to not even get into a situation where you cannot get out, or will damage your truck. It is important for survival.
So if you are consider that, you will not drive down that class 4.5 trail to the nice beach, you will not drive the one more mile up the mountain, and you will not drive in the dark on that hairy trail.
Mud can be a problem, and there more weight will not help you. Same with sand. Of course one could make the argument that an ARB bumper will help you in case of an impact with an animal, or another vehicle, and this is correct.
I see no needs for sliders, or quarter panel protection, or a full cage.
Having said that, I just ordered a rear bumper from SROR. But this is not for armor or not even to get the spare tire out from under the truck. It is to carry the fuel outside of the cabin, to carry a second spare tire, and to mount shovel/pick there.
It definitely holds up that closer to stock is better on an expedition.
HTH
J
I would think that on an expedition truck, where getting stuck in the middle of BFN would mean disaster, the extra few pounds of a transmission/transfer case skid plate would be a worthwhile investment to keep valuable bits of your running gear in functional repair.
Theres many different ways to look at the payload / armor situation-
My personal perspective was:
Add: metaltech sliders-160lbs
shortbus bumper-90lbs
8kwarn/synth rope- 55lbs
cloth/manual front seats-60lbs
Subtract: 2cnd +3rd row seats/hardware/belts/hardware-- 180lbs
1st row leather electric seats- 125lbs
-----------------------
365lbs added - 305lbs removed = +60lbs net.
-started riding singlespeed more-- (-25lbs)
-take a large dump before leaving on expedition (-5lbs)
-swapped out large 140lb girlfriend/for thin 110lb one- (-30lbs)
-----------------------
final tally: stock weight/armored/new girl /more
space between belly and wheel/fewer stops to take a
dump.......
My personal perspective was:
Add: metaltech sliders-160lbs
shortbus bumper-90lbs
8kwarn/synth rope- 55lbs
cloth/manual front seats-60lbs
Subtract: 2cnd +3rd row seats/hardware/belts/hardware-- 180lbs
1st row leather electric seats- 125lbs
-----------------------
365lbs added - 305lbs removed = +60lbs net.
-started riding singlespeed more-- (-25lbs)
-take a large dump before leaving on expedition (-5lbs)
-swapped out large 140lb girlfriend/for thin 110lb one- (-30lbs)
-----------------------
final tally: stock weight/armored/new girl /more
space between belly and wheel/fewer stops to take a
dump.......
Theres armour, and theres bling...
Depending on terrain, I'd consider a roo bar, quarter panel bars/side steps and sump guards as prudent accessories
A lot of stuff I see on this (and other) forums however seems to serve more of a showoff purpose... One forum in particular seems to rate a rollcage on how "cool" it looks rather than its strength
One really simple bit of armour is perspex covers over your headlights / driving lights - nothing worse than trying to source expensive parts away from home, when a $10 bit of plastic could have saved the headaches
Sean
Depending on terrain, I'd consider a roo bar, quarter panel bars/side steps and sump guards as prudent accessories
A lot of stuff I see on this (and other) forums however seems to serve more of a showoff purpose... One forum in particular seems to rate a rollcage on how "cool" it looks rather than its strength
One really simple bit of armour is perspex covers over your headlights / driving lights - nothing worse than trying to source expensive parts away from home, when a $10 bit of plastic could have saved the headaches
Sean
Wow, you guys will hate what I've done to my FJ Cruiser:
Armor list -
ARB Bull Bar - Front Bumper
Fab Fours Rear Bumper <ordered>
Bud Built Front Skidplate
Bud Built Middle Skidplate
Bud Built Transmission & Transfer Case Skidplate
Bud Built Rear Crossmember
Bud Built Fuel Tank (Beefy) Skidplate
Bud Built ARB Spacer Armor Plate
Inchworm E-Locker Motor Skid
Rear Lower Shock Skid
Rear Trailing Link Skid
Rear Differential Plate (welded)
ARB Sliders
ARB Slider Skidplates
And I built it as an expedition vehicle. To me the need arises to go off-road and occasionally off-trail My skids are scraped, my sliders damaged, and the ARB has pushed over brush and small trees in my path (while obeying the tread lightly concept) while sliding down muddy slopes out of control.
I can't conceive of running an expedition in primitive conditions without armoring the beast for fear of damaging the rig beyond repair and having to walk out. In the San Raphael Swell (UT), in parts of Canada and Montana, it can be a long darned walk carrying canteens.
(Kokopelli Trail Expedition with Woody/FJC Trail Team/& Friends in Oct 07)
Armor list -
ARB Bull Bar - Front Bumper
Fab Fours Rear Bumper <ordered>
Bud Built Front Skidplate
Bud Built Middle Skidplate
Bud Built Transmission & Transfer Case Skidplate
Bud Built Rear Crossmember
Bud Built Fuel Tank (Beefy) Skidplate
Bud Built ARB Spacer Armor Plate
Inchworm E-Locker Motor Skid
Rear Lower Shock Skid
Rear Trailing Link Skid
Rear Differential Plate (welded)
ARB Sliders
ARB Slider Skidplates
And I built it as an expedition vehicle. To me the need arises to go off-road and occasionally off-trail My skids are scraped, my sliders damaged, and the ARB has pushed over brush and small trees in my path (while obeying the tread lightly concept) while sliding down muddy slopes out of control.
I can't conceive of running an expedition in primitive conditions without armoring the beast for fear of damaging the rig beyond repair and having to walk out. In the San Raphael Swell (UT), in parts of Canada and Montana, it can be a long darned walk carrying canteens.
(Kokopelli Trail Expedition with Woody/FJC Trail Team/& Friends in Oct 07)
With all the kit I carry on trips, the amount of weight added by accessories has never been a primary consideration.
However, I don't have much more than stock "armour". Rear Kaymar bumper is to carry get the tire out form underneath the truck. A winch would be a good add and a bumper for it would be required, but I am not sure a couple of 1 3/4 tubes are gonna stop a cow (not many kangaroos in California) so all the extra metal would be left in the shop.
Sliders? Good idea, but should also do double duty as a step for accessing the rack, kinda like the early Slee Sliders.
Underbody stuff, low down and probably be a good add.
Other consideration is where all that weight is on the truck. Right place (centered low down) no problem. Heavy, high and at the ends equals CG and polar intertia issues. Probably more of a hazard IMO that the potential damage from that rock!
However, I don't have much more than stock "armour". Rear Kaymar bumper is to carry get the tire out form underneath the truck. A winch would be a good add and a bumper for it would be required, but I am not sure a couple of 1 3/4 tubes are gonna stop a cow (not many kangaroos in California) so all the extra metal would be left in the shop.
Sliders? Good idea, but should also do double duty as a step for accessing the rack, kinda like the early Slee Sliders.
Underbody stuff, low down and probably be a good add.
Other consideration is where all that weight is on the truck. Right place (centered low down) no problem. Heavy, high and at the ends equals CG and polar intertia issues. Probably more of a hazard IMO that the potential damage from that rock!
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We just run sliders and the factory t-case skid. Nothing else is needed when traveling mostly on dirt roads with occasional rocks here and there.
Thats all sensible armour, And depending on terrain I'd condider doing some of the same things (especially in rocky areas)
Sean
No roos, it wouldn't stop a cow or a horse, but I have hit deer before and it's not pretty. The ARB will stop a deer (rock mountain kangaroos)
.
My ARB sliders don't protrude from the frame. I'm still trying to decide if that's a good thing or not. So no, you couldn't use them as a step. With the FJ Cruiser, you can open the suicide doors, rear door or stand on the rear tire to get up to the rack. It's not that tough to access.
Cruiserdrew
On the way there
It all depends where you go. Sliders are good anywhere. A rear bumper is good if you drop off of ledges (like Moab). Front bumper is good mostly to carry a winch. Skid plates are really good in my opinion-little weight, all down low, very focused protection.
Travel is different from wheeling. Wheeling = armor. Travelling = stay within your capabilities.
Travel is different from wheeling. Wheeling = armor. Travelling = stay within your capabilities.
cruiser_guy
Out of Africa / North Africa
I'm not a fan of adding all sorts of armor to the truck but I am considering sliders only because here in Guatemala getting to small villages can mean a really nasty road!! Lot's of folks walk where they are going and some areas are not very accessable. Think of wheeling to get home!?!?
- Thread starter
- #15
Just a few numbers...
let's say your total payload is 2,000 lbs
What percentage is being used for armor, and what percentage is being used for valuables, ie fuel, gear etc.?
let's say your total payload is 2,000 lbs
What percentage is being used for armor, and what percentage is being used for valuables, ie fuel, gear etc.?
Last edited:
(1) What is your concept of an "expedition"?
(1.1) Where?
(1.2) Duration?
(2) Do you use your rig recreationally off-road/off-trail?
I can only answer for myself. I do take my rig on rough trails in SoCal recreationally. The rougher runs I'm willing to make (no, not the Hammers in Johnson Valley) are John Bull, Deep Creek/Holcomb Creek and Odessa/Doran Loop. Those require skids and sliders or you may have trouble coming home. The recent Kokopelli Trail Expedition (with Toyota Trail Team) required sliders and skids or you would have had a really rough time getting home.
Some of us are planning an FJ Cruiser Expedition to Mongolia in later 2008. Sliders and skids are not optional. Fuel load out suggested is 53 gallons (for the FJC, a primary tank, Man-a-Fre aux. 19 gallon tank and 15 gallons in cans on the rack) with 20 gallons of water. Yes, it's all a lot of weight. Once you have that factored in, you can decide how much weight you have left for "other items".
But armor, fuel, recovery gear and water to me are the staples. Everything else is a luxury and you have to decide priorities from there.
fernandol
SILVER Star
As always it all depends on where you plan to go.
In general I try to keep the weight down but some protection is necessary, sliders and skidplates are good and don't need to be super heavy, for expedition use, skidplates can be made with a combination of 3/16" and 1/8" plate as opposed to 1/4" and sliders made with 1/8" wall tubbing are usually more than enough.
Regarding bumpers, if you need to carry jerry cans and need to get the spare out from under the truck a rear bumper is a good solution.
Also newer rigs tend to have plastic bumpers that make the use of high lift jacks impossible, I think this alone is a good reason to upgrade to a stronger bumper, again there is no need to get the strongest heaviest bumper out there.
Eventhough it is true that while traveling to remote areas the sensible thing to do is to stay out of trouble it is also true that in some places staying out of trouble means keeping to the main road and missing on all the interesting places, so having the capability to survive some rough spots on the way is important.
Central and South American jungle tracks tend to be muddy and deeply rutted so dragging the undercarriage is unavoidable and in many cases avoiding the rutted tracks means, to a big extent, missing the point of the trip.
In general I try to keep the weight down but some protection is necessary, sliders and skidplates are good and don't need to be super heavy, for expedition use, skidplates can be made with a combination of 3/16" and 1/8" plate as opposed to 1/4" and sliders made with 1/8" wall tubbing are usually more than enough.
Regarding bumpers, if you need to carry jerry cans and need to get the spare out from under the truck a rear bumper is a good solution.
Also newer rigs tend to have plastic bumpers that make the use of high lift jacks impossible, I think this alone is a good reason to upgrade to a stronger bumper, again there is no need to get the strongest heaviest bumper out there.
Eventhough it is true that while traveling to remote areas the sensible thing to do is to stay out of trouble it is also true that in some places staying out of trouble means keeping to the main road and missing on all the interesting places, so having the capability to survive some rough spots on the way is important.
Central and South American jungle tracks tend to be muddy and deeply rutted so dragging the undercarriage is unavoidable and in many cases avoiding the rutted tracks means, to a big extent, missing the point of the trip.
On expedition, I would thing that it is pretty important to stay within the vehicle's GVWR. You rely on it for your life, you need to make sure you use it within its rated capabilities and don't pound it to death. Given that, the weight trade-off thing becomes very important. When you have 1000 miles of desert until the next fuel stop, the logistics of carrying fuel versus the weight of armor becomes an important one. Armor is great in certain situations, but sometimes there are other priorities. Especially if you drive within the capabilities of the vehicle and don't take every difficult challenge just for the fun of it. For the kind of wheeling we normally do in the States, sliders would usually be my first choice in terms of armor. For expeditioning, especially in the desert, maybe not so much.
My $0.02,
My $0.02,