ARB vs Toy Locker

[YngTLCOwner]

Well plan to do the lockers next on my 86 4R. Been looking at either ARB or Toyota E Locker. At this time I plan to just do the rear first. I want to wheel w/ this setup first and then see about doing SAS later on. At that point I will figure out what I will do for the front.

So as far as the rear goes what do you guys think is better between the two? Also, what gearing would be best w/ an auto tranny - 4:56 or 4:88? I know that the toy e-locker from Toyota goes upto 4:56. If I go w/ 4:88 then I will have to get aftermarket. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks
Steve

 

[Cube Dweller]

Age old debate. ARB guys will say the carrier is stronger with the ARB and the ARB's are quicker to engage. Downside is you need to have an air supply and I've witnessed ARB compressors leak and air lines come loose(different rigs) so the lockers would not stay engaged.

I went with elockers. They engage fast enough for me, the housing mod is easy, you can engage them manually by removing the cover should the circuit or motor fail and I've never read of anyone grenading an elocker mechanism.

Sorry, no advice on the ratio. I'm running 4.88's with a V-6 and a 5 spd. If you decide to run an elocker in the front, it will probably be a high pinion. The only high pinion factory ration is 4.88 so you're regearing regardless.

 

[YngTLCOwner]

Thanks Cube! I figure I will end up going w/ 4:88s since my truck is auto.

Where did you end up buying the rear 3rd from? I have read guys buying direct from Toyota for about $800. Any other places other than dealer and private party?

Thanks
Steve

 

[Biff]

I would go with the ARB's, the elockers are more prone to mechanical problems. The worst problem with the arbs is a busted airline which are easily replaced. Does the runner need special gears due to its tranny? I always figured gear replacements were more of a result of how big your tires were.

 

[YngTLCOwner]

Victor,
I was considering gears cause I plan to go w/ 32x11.5 or 33s. If I go w/ either one I will be going w/ the 4:88s. Normally, I have read 4.56 would be good for 5spd but w/ an auto others have suggested 4:88s.

I still have alot of researching to do before I do this next part.

 

[Cube Dweller]

I would go with the ARB's, the elockers are more prone to mechanical problems. The worst problem with the arbs is a busted airline which are easily replaced. Does the runner need special gears due to its tranny? I always figured gear replacements were more of a result of how big your tires were.

Victor, what mechanical problems? I read the 80's section as well and I just don't see it. Maybe an occasional "must exercise the sticky motor since it was owned by a soccer mom" but that's it. On other boards I just haven't seen any reports of problems with elockers.

Couple of the Marlin employees have engaged theirs on the freeway!!!!

 

[robinhood4x4]

As for gear ratio I'd go with 5.29s, especially since you have the 22re and the auto. Do the math and figure out which ratio will put you back to stock. For me, that meant 5.29 to match my 33s.

 

[toyrunner]

While I have never ran an ARB, I have the e-locker mod in my 1985 4Runner. It is a great modification and have had no issues with it.
I found mine used for $400.00.
Went to Moab the 2nd week in August 2006 and the locker performed flawlessly. I engaged it when I knew it would be needed, disengaged when done.
Danny

 

[toyrunner]

Oh, a pic on da crack

 

[Tigerstripe40]

The ARB air locker is a 4 pinion design.
The Toyota 8" e-locker is a 3 pinion design.

The ARB air locker is a stronger carrier than the Toyota e-locker.

Important for 'Cruiser guys in their heavy rigs.
But not so important for minitrucks in those lighter righs.

 

[KLF]

The ARB air locker is a 4 pinion design.
The Toyota 8" e-locker is a 3 pinion design.

The ARB air locker is a stronger carrier than the Toyota e-locker.

Important for 'Cruiser guys in their heavy rigs.
But not so important for minitrucks in those lighter righs.

Uhh... actually, you have that BACKWARDS. Sort of.

Here's the real deal:

The Toyota OEM 8" Tacoma/4Runner e-locker, like the FZJ-80 front hi-pinion e-locker, is a 4-pinion differential. I have re-geared several of these diffs (just did my hi-pinion one in my pickup last month), and I just happen to have a rear one in my basement, waiting for gears for it to show up. Here is the inside of the differential:

Dunno about you, but I see 4 pinion gears there.

I've also regeared a rear FZJ-80 e-locker. It is also a 4 pinion design.

Now, as to the ARBs. Mini-trucks use RD-23 ARBs, and these are 4-pinion.

HOWEVER, in a Land Cruiser SF rear axle (FJ40/60/62 and some 80-series), you have to use the RD124 ARB unit (which replaced the RD08). I have installed 2 of these in my previous FJ-62. Here's what it looks like inside, from the ARB docs:

Note that this ARB has only 3 pinion gears in the differential portion. This has to be this way for the SF axle, as there needs to be a "window" in the carrier to reach the C-clips.

Kinda funny that the "stronger" ARB for the SF Cruiser axle has only 3 pinions, especially considering these vehicles are significantly heavier than the mini-trucks, yet it is apparently weaker than the e-lockers in use on the minis.

I submit that the ARB is no stronger than the e-locker. Carriers rarely fail, it's usually the O-rings in the ARBs, the gears, bearings, the air lines, or the electrics and actuators in the e-lockers.

I've had both types of lockers. I prefer the e-lockers for minis, but IMO ARBs are the way to go for the older Cruisers. I do not like the e-locker design in the rear of the 80-series, the locking cog only has 5 teeth on it so it can take quite awhile to get the coarse splines to line up so it can lock. I also don't like that it takes a special axle shaft with longer splines. Makes sourcing replacement parts very difficult if you are in a hurry (like broken on the trail).

There ya go, FWIW...

 

[4RUNNY]

Would 4.88's be the best for 33's with V6 5spd for all arond performance, thats what I'm planning on dropping in mine. I was laso wondering, how much am I looking at for parts and install front and rear? Any info would be greatly appreciated.

 

[KLF]

I have 4.88's in my diffs now, and my usual street tires are 33x10.50 BFG AT KO's. It's a PERFECT combo, the speedo and odometer is dead-on perfect.

Price is too hard to quote. Depends on too many variables. Are you talking about e-lockers? ARBs? New? Used? Doing any of th work yourself? etc.

 

[4RUNNY]

Gears and an e-locker in the rear, most likely new because I don't know if I can find a used one. I'm thinking about paying for the install. Thank you for the advice.

 

[91Toyota4x4]

The only high pinion factory ration is 4.88 so you're regearing regardless.

WRONG.

 

[KLF]

Gears and an e-locker in the rear, most likely new because I don't know if I can find a used one. I'm thinking about paying for the install. Thank you for the advice.

I just got prices for someone that wanted to do something similar. Prices on those e-lockers have really gone up, they are almost $1100 new from Toyota now (list prices). By the time you buy gears, pay for labor, shipping, etc., you're better off just buying one all setup from inchworm.com or Marlin.

Installing will also be big money of you're paying someone else to do it. Housing mods, wiring, etc. Let's just say I'm glad I was able to do this stuff myself.

 

[bkg]

I just got prices for someone that wanted to do something similar. Prices on those e-lockers have really gone up, they are almost $1100 new from Toyota now (list prices). By the time you buy gears, pay for labor, shipping, etc., you're better off just buying one all setup from inchworm.com or Marlin.

Installing will also be big money of you're paying someone else to do it. Housing mods, wiring, etc. Let's just say I'm glad I was able to do this stuff myself.

Inchworm sells e-lockers for $925...

 

[KLF]

Inchworm sells e-lockers for $925...

This is true, that's why I said LIST prices. I could have also bought a new one from Toyota for a little less than that, with my discount. I'm betting he gets a better discount than I do.

But that is factory-new w/4.10s. Setup with 5.29s, they are $1,345. A set of gears is about $185 now, so basically he's getting ~$225 for the labor to tear it apart and swap the gears and set it up again. Not a bad deal, actually.

 

[4RUNNY]

Maybe I'll wait on that e-locker until I am out of Engineering school and just go with a stupid lockright on my Daily Driver . How about gearing only. Parts and install. < $800? Thank you for the informative responses KLF.

 

[bkg]

This is true, that's why I said LIST prices. I could have also bought a new one from Toyota for a little less than that, with my discount. I'm betting he gets a better discount than I do.

But that is factory-new w/4.10s. Setup with 5.29s, they are $1,345. A set of gears is about $185 now, so basically he's getting ~$225 for the labor to tear it apart and swap the gears and set it up again. Not a bad deal, actually.

Good points.