ARB OME 2721s and Towing - Any experience?

[Dan Higgins]

At some point I plan to do an OME 2721/Nitrocharger upgrade to the stock suspension. I don't plan bumpers or armor. Drawer is not a full of heavy stuff as some. Fully loaded for a road trip or camping and with passengers (just my wife and I) the truck weighs just under 6800#. Normal weight with my wife and I is probably 200# less.

We tow a trailer with about 850#s of tongue weight but offset with the weight distribution of the hitch which puts about 500 lbs on the LC - more being on the rear than on the front by about 10%.

I would like a modest lift when not towing the trailer. 2" would be good - maybe the max I would want. 1" is OK.

I understand the 2721 are variable springs as opposed to constant. Is that better or worse for towing? Again, any experience? How do the spring rates of the 2721 compare to stock?

(Yes, I know airbags may be an option but this question is simply about how the 2721s would perform with the trailer and what sort of lift I might expect. When the time comes I will of course work with Slee and have them do the install.)

Not sure what to put up front yet.

 

[Taco2Cruiser]

I really believe a 2721 spring is better in every way to a 2722. But remember, the spring, for the most part, just holds the hight of the truck up (yes it does more) but, a superior shock is what keeps you stable far more than a stiff spring.

Both the 2721 and the 2722 have the same free heights: 440mm (gas tank side), and 430mm (US driver side)
The "constant" spring rate on 2722 is 275 lbf/in, and the "variable" spring rate on the 2721 is 270 lbf/in on the top, 340 lbf/in on the bottom.

For really everything you are doing, having a lighter rate in the first few inches of travel for ride comfort, and then if the truck has a good load in it (either your truck with passengers or that 500# tongue weight) you'll like the much firmer 340 rate to keep you from loosing too much height, especially when doing down the highway.

I have 2722s now, with about 800# of camping gear and a big RTT, no rear bumper, no drawers, its not enough spring to hold the back of the truck up. I can keep stable on the highway with increasing the shocks compression, and a slight increase on dampening so it feel safe. It's just that the back is now lower, and the is a big negative for emergency breaking.

For me, it is no questions, get the 2721. If you feel that is not enough, go strait to the 2723, it's entire rate is 350lbf/in, and it has a 10mm taller free height. And it will be too easy to sell a 2721, many more people would want a 2721 than the heavier springs. Besides, these springs are only about $200 a pair anyway.

 

[Markuson]

I really believe a 2721 spring is better in every way to a 2722. But remember, the spring, for the most part, just holds the hight of the truck up (yes it does more) but, a superior shock is what keeps you stable far more than a stiff spring.

Both the 2721 and the 2722 have the same free heights: 440mm (gas tank side), and 430mm (US driver side)
The "constant" spring rate on 2722 is 275 lbf/in, and the "variable" spring rate on the 2721 is 270 lbf/in on the top, 340 lbf/in on the bottom.

For really everything you are doing, having a lighter rate in the first few inches of travel for ride comfort, and then if the truck has a good load in it (either your truck with passengers or that 500# tongue weight) you'll like the much firmer 340 rate to keep you from loosing too much height, especially when doing down the highway.

I have 2722s now, with about 800# of camping gear and a big RTT, no rear bumper, no drawers, its not enough spring to hold the back of the truck up. I can keep stable on the highway with increasing the shocks compression, and a slight increase on dampening so it feel safe. It's just that the back is now lower, and the is a big negative for emergency breaking.

For me, it is no questions, get the 2721. If you feel that is not enough, go strait to the 2723, it's entire rate is 350lbf/in, and it has a 10mm taller free height. And it will be too easy to sell a 2721, many more people would want a 2721 than the heavier springs. Besides, these springs are only about $200 a pair anyway.

He's already got my 2721...

 

[Dan Higgins]

I really believe a 2721 spring is better in every way to a 2722. But remember, the spring, for the most part, just holds the hight of the truck up (yes it does more) but, a superior shock is what keeps you stable far more than a stiff spring.

Both the 2721 and the 2722 have the same free heights: 440mm (gas tank side), and 430mm (US driver side)
The "constant" spring rate on 2722 is 275 lbf/in, and the "variable" spring rate on the 2721 is 270 lbf/in on the top, 340 lbf/in on the bottom.

For really everything you are doing, having a lighter rate in the first few inches of travel for ride comfort, and then if the truck has a good load in it (either your truck with passengers or that 500# tongue weight) you'll like the much firmer 340 rate to keep you from loosing too much height, especially when doing down the highway.

I have 2722s now, with about 800# of camping gear and a big RTT, no rear bumper, no drawers, its not enough spring to hold the back of the truck up. I can keep stable on the highway with increasing the shocks compression, and a slight increase on dampening so it feel safe. It's just that the back is now lower, and the is a big negative for emergency breaking.

For me, it is no questions, get the 2721. If you feel that is not enough, go strait to the 2723, it's entire rate is 350lbf/in, and it has a 10mm taller free height. And it will be too easy to sell a 2721, many more people would want a 2721 than the heavier springs. Besides, these springs are only about $200 a pair anyway.

Thanks! This is very helpful info as I have no experience with springs or shocks. I was not clear on how the variable rate springs work or how it would effect towing.

And, yes, I already have a pair from @Markuson! (Thanks again, Mark!). Trying to decide when to do the install. And looking for insight as to what to put on the front given my use cases. I only have 26K on my original shocks and may be doing a long road trip in September sans trailer. So I'm wondering whether I should make the move now for the benefits to towing or wait until after that road trip.

Of course I'll be talking to Slee as well.

 

[wesel123]

I just ordered a set of 2721s for this same reason. Have the 2722s on now and without a load I'm stink bugging really bad and the ride is pretty harsh. We have an Airstream that we tow, not a much tough weight as yours but with the trailer attached it went down the road no problems. I did install the Firestone airbags as a back up but only had them inflated to 10psi.

I'm moving to the 2721s for a lower ride height, but essentially the same load range. (this rid is my DD). If the trailer pulls it down it will be as easy as putting more air in the bags.

 

[TeCKis300]

Anyone know the stock spring rate?

For towing, the 2721s will likely perform very well. The progressive nature of the spring will keep some semblance of ride quality when unburdened yet stiffen up when trailering. This should give you more stability if that's what your looking for.

That said, there are some drawbacks to more spring rate. Not necessarily in the towing scenario, but in other uses. The truck will now be more tailored for load bearing work vs articulation. Unless the rig is configure with more gear such that the heavier spring rate doesn't work against articulation on a lighter rig.

 

[Markuson]

Anyone know the stock spring rate?

For towing, the 2721s will likely perform very well. The progressive nature of the spring will keep some semblance of ride quality when unburdened yet stiffen up when trailering. This should give you more stability if that's what your looking for.

That said, there are some drawbacks to more spring rate. Not necessarily in the towing scenario, but in other uses. The truck will now be more tailored for load bearing work vs articulation. Unless the rig is configure with more gear such that the heavier spring rate doesn't work against articulation on a lighter rig.

2721's aren't really considered heavy. I drove with these 2721's for two years, and it wheeled very well with plenty of articulation.

 

[Dan Higgins]

When I go wheeling, I'll have about 100 lbs of additional gear in the truck and likely some camping or hiking stuff. Unlike Mark, I only have one drawer and it is probably not as full as Mark's. But with the Slee sliders and the Gobi rack, a drawer instead of the 3rd rows and camera gear and other stuff I am certainly heavier than stock. When I visited a scale on a road trip last March, I was at 6800# with a light assortment of camping gear and me being the only passenger.

I'm also curious about the amount of lift I would get.

As for towing, I am getting some porpoising and though some of that needs to be addressed with my hitch and loading my trailer I am also curious if somewhat stiffer springs, especially variable rate springs, would make that better or worse.

 

[Taco2Cruiser]

Anyone know the stock spring rate?

For towing, the 2721s will likely perform very well. The progressive nature of the spring will keep some semblance of ride quality when unburdened yet stiffen up when trailering. This should give you more stability if that's what your looking for.

That said, there are some drawbacks to more spring rate. Not necessarily in the towing scenario, but in other uses. The truck will now be more tailored for load bearing work vs articulation. Unless the rig is configure with more gear such that the heavier spring rate doesn't work against articulation on a lighter rig.

Stock spring rate is 170 lbf/in.

Don't worry about loss of articulation with any of the rear OME springs. That solid axle is still going to flex just fine, and maintain contact with the ground, even with stock 200 weight.

 

[TeCKis300]

2721's aren't really considered heavy. I drove with these 2721's for two years, and it wheeled very well with plenty of articulation.

It's all relative. I'm sure your rig performed just great, especially given the gear you carry. More spring rate by principle inherently limits articulation. A progressive design that gets significantly stiffer will be harder to stuff. And by definition will RTI less than a softly spring rig.

But lots of long travel rigs do use progressive springs. They are especially good for baja running, where they prevent bottoming out.

Nothing wrong with any of these setups...they just tailor the rig for different use cases.

 

[TeCKis300]

Stock spring rate is 170 lbf/in.

Don't worry about loss of articulation with any of the rear OME springs. That solid axle is still going to flex just fine, and maintain contact with the ground, even with stock 200 weight.

Thanks for that number. So the OME's are ~25% higher rate.

Progressives are well suited for towing. All leaf spring based trucks are inherently progressive rate. Which bear loads well without too much deflection.

 

[TeCKis300]

As for towing, I am getting some porpoising and though some of that needs to be addressed with my hitch and loading my trailer I am also curious if somewhat stiffer springs, especially variable rate springs, would make that better or worse.

Porpoising is a result of weight distribution. If you can imagine, weight distribution causes a springing effect across the tow vehicle to trailer junction. With any spring, if it is undampened, will cause oscillations - or porpoising as it is called in this case. Dialing in more weight distribution causes this spring to work with more spring rate. And without any dampening, can cause more pronounced porpoising.

That said, this spring is indirectly dampened by the SUV's and trailers suspension. Moreso the SUV, as the trailers suspension is at the far end, with most of the hitch load on SUV's suspension. The setup is likely under-damped with the stock shocks. Getting heavier damping, or adjustable shocks can go a ways to addressing this.

 

[Markuson]

It's all relative. I'm sure your rig performed just great, especially given the gear you carry. More spring rate by principle inherently limits articulation. A progressive design that gets significantly stiffer will be harder to stuff. And by definition will RTI less than a softly spring rig.

But lots of long travel rigs do use progressive springs. They are especially good for baja running, where they prevent bottoming out.

Nothing wrong with any of these setups...they just tailor the rig for different use cases.

Ya, the 2721 and BP-51's were on my truck even before the weight of sliders, FULL drawers & skids, and they were perfect. I kept them until the Beast build, and always found them comfortable, with excellent performance whether loaded or not. It's a great spring set. I'm kind of surprised that ARB/OME doesn't have more progressive springs across the line...

 

[Citius]

I just ordered a set of 2721s for this same reason. Have the 2722s on now and without a load I'm stink bugging really bad and the ride is pretty harsh. We have an Airstream that we tow, not a much tough weight as yours but with the trailer attached it went down the road no problems. I did install the Firestone airbags as a back up but only had them inflated to 10psi.

I'm moving to the 2721s for a lower ride height, but essentially the same load range. (this rid is my DD). If the trailer pulls it down it will be as easy as putting more air in the bags.

How bad is the ride with the 2722 without a load? Did it ride like a pickup or just very stiff? I have a set on order and after reading this post I'm a bit worried.

Did you upgrade the shocks too? I also have a set of Bilstein 4600 on order...should I just go with the OME shock as well?

 

[Markuson]

How bad is the ride with the 2722 without a load? Did it ride like a pickup or just very stiff? I have a set on order and after reading this post I'm a bit worried.

Did you upgrade the shocks too? I also have a set of Bilstein 4600 on order...should I just go with the OME shock as well?

2722's are constant load, I believe... Not progressive like the 2721's. To me, the 2721s are far superior for most applications.

 

[Dan Higgins]

Anis such great info, Everyone. Even when you all sort of have different "perspectives". When I ask questions about porpoising on the trailer forum all I here is get, "get a real truck". Well, not from everyone. There are a couple 200 owners that assure me the LC does great with my trailer.

As for the suspension upgrade, it is going to be hard to wait on this. But with a long freeway road trip to the PNW in September and another to Tuscon next winter I may have to appease my wife and put it off for a few months. Sigh. Lots of $ going into the house these days the stock suspension is still relatively young. We'll see.

 

[Taco2Cruiser]

Anis such great info, Everyone. Even when you all sort of have different "perspectives". When I ask questions about porpoising on the trailer forum all I here is get, "get a real truck". Well, not from everyone. There are a couple 200 owners that assure me the LC does great with my trailer.

As for the suspension upgrade, it is going to be hard to wait on this. But with a long freeway road trip to the PNW in September and another to Tuscon next winter I may have to appease my wife and put it off for a few months. Sigh. Lots of $ going into the house these days the stock suspension is still relatively young. We'll see.

Yea know, you sure are right about perspective. All I've ever personally owned is short wheel based Toyota 4x4s.
A '96 single cab Tacoma (103" wheelbase)
'07 FJ Cruiser (106" wheelbase)
'11 LC200 (112" wheelbase)

I've towed over 8,000 lbs trailers with all of them. Proper weight distribution hitches, a good trailer brake setup, and some common sense (except for the 4cyl tacoma... I was young) and you'll see that something like a 5.7 land cruiser is more than capable of heavy pulls.

Now I have a CDL from growing up on a farm, and worked with some serious towing setups, but between small stuff like land cruisers and F-150s/Silverado 1500/Ram 1500, they all pull the same.

You'll be fine, and you'll have more memories than the guy that keeps saying, "well, my setup isn't right yet, i'll just do that trip next year." And never does.

 

[Dan Higgins]

Yea know, you sure are right about perspective. All I've ever personally owned is short wheel based Toyota 4x4s.
A '96 single cab Tacoma (103" wheelbase)
'07 FJ Cruiser (106" wheelbase)
'11 LC200 (112" wheelbase)

I've towed over 8,000 lbs trailers with all of them. Proper weight distribution hitches, a good trailer brake setup, and some common sense (except for the 4cyl tacoma... I was young) and you'll see that something like a 5.7 land cruiser is more than capable of heavy pulls.

Now I have a CDL from growing up on a farm, and worked with some serious towing setups, but between small stuff like land cruisers and F-150s/Silverado 1500/Ram 1500, they all pull the same.

You'll be fine, and you'll have more memories than the guy that keeps saying, "well, my setup isn't right yet, i'll just do that trip next year." And never does.

I hear you. I keep reminding them that using a truck isn't an option. Part of the purpose of the trailer is as a base to explore. I'd rather go exploring in a Land Cruiser! And, the funny thing is, there are just as many people on the trailer forum complaining and worrying about towing experience as me, if not more, that all have trucks. Then the answer tends to be, "Get a bigger truck." Yeah, I guess if I pulled if I pulled my 6,000# trailer with a 450 dually diesel I would hardly notice it back there.

 

[wesel123]

How bad is the ride with the 2722 without a load? Did it ride like a pickup or just very stiff? I have a set on order and after reading this post I'm a bit worried.

Did you upgrade the shocks too? I also have a set of Bilstein 4600 on order...should I just go with the OME shock as well?

Well its no where near a stock ride. It's stiff but again that is a very subjective statement. I love how it handles on mountain roads, firm and planted. I do have the Nitro Sports on all for corners.

I would compare it to an empty bed pickup.

But I agree 100 percent with the fact that they are constant load compared to a progressive load, I'll bet money it'll rode softer. I should have the new springs by Wednesday, I'll put them in right away and report back to you. Maybe you can hold off on your install and make a switch.

 

[Citius]

Well its no where near a stock ride. It's stiff but again that is a very subjective statement. I love how it handles on mountain roads, firm and planted. I do have the Nitro Sports on all for corners.

I would compare it to an empty bed pickup.

But I agree 100 percent with the fact that they are constant load compared to a progressive load, I'll bet money it'll rode softer. I should have the new springs by Wednesday, I'll put them in right away and report back to you. Maybe you can hold off on your install and make a switch.

I'll hold off until I hear back from you wesel123.

Coming from a Sierra 1500, F250, and Sequoia I am impressed with the towing capabilities of the LC.

The first week I got the LC, I had to get topsoil for my house and they overloaded my trailer. I left the yard weighing 15,850 lbs (LC was completely empty with a full tank of gas). The LC handled it very well. I manually shifted 1st-4th gears only, downshifted and didn't go over 55 mph. I have no doubt that you will be fine Dan Higgins . It's not a heavy duty truck but it is so maneuverable when backing up and it has the power of a Tundra. So with an upgraded rear suspension, we'll be close enough to a "real truck".

I won't let them overload me again, but I am sure if they do, I'd be fine. My dump trailer is 18.5' in total length and GVWR 14k lbs for reference sake.

However, I did swap out all the rotors and pads after towing that heavy load. I did not like the feel of the stock pads and rotors. I ended up with DBA 4000XS, and EBC Orange on all 4 corners. I'm now confident that the truck will stop no matter what. The brakes feels "grippier" and braking is more responsive.

I will be towing my boat tomorrow and will let you know how they feel with a load, it's not as heavy as a loaded dump trailer but it's 26' long and weighs about 6k-7k.

I'm use to to the ride of a pick up truck when I am in a pick up truck, I rather not feel that way when driving the LC though. Thanks to everyone for chiming in with great advice as always.