Anyone running a full suspension replacement? (1 Viewer)

[Jetboy]

FWIW - I've been through a fair amount of setups on various vehicles over the years. I think you'll find that the best possible ride and handling is at stock height. Likely with stock shocks and springs for normal highway ride. There's a lot of reasons for it, but the basics are relatively low spring rates ride better than the high spring rates many aftermarket setups use. And the OEM height has all of the suspension geometry optimized. The further you go from stock height, the more compensation you'll need to fix the suspension geometry issues. That's not just caster, but also the angles of the control arms will translate more energy into the chassis. The rear panhard out of level causes other motion issues.

I'm all for lifts. I lift most of my own junk. But - for highway use, keeping it close to stock will give you the best ride quality and often better trail performance too. Especially with the new GA-F platform that fits big tires without need for lifting or "leveling". The spring rates an valving are what will matter most in terms of ride quality. IMO the best ride will be the lower end of spring rate range and a softish progressive or linear valving for normal shocks or a bypass shock should be better than single stage if tuned properly. It's very hard to beat the OEM Toyota Fox internal bypass shocks - might just wait for the TRD Pro 4Runner or TRD Pro Tacoma takeoffs. They'll probably be better on mixed highway than any aftermarket you could buy at any price. Not sure what they'll go for once they're out on the street.

A really good mid-range option is the new ICON c-clip shocks. You could set at minimum height and have a great upgrade for the OEM shocks for not a ton of money. Should be much better than a spacer lift. I find the Bilstein 5xxx and 6xxx series to be a bit too firm for a daily driver. Fox 2.0 c-clips are quite nice. Very different from the harsh 2.5 valving. 2.0s are pretty soft. Just a few options that should be a lot better than spacers in the relatively lower end of price spectrum. Not sure what options are currently actually available though.

These guys and gals do the best shock testing I'm aware of. They do blind testing and give pretty great quality reviews. Worth a look at their blind test videos on shocks when sorting out what you want. The spacer lifts were pretty terrible in the test. Overland Outfitters - https://www.youtube.com/@OverlandOutfitters

Good luck.

 

[NY2LA]

@Jetboy

Definitely a good sanity check for those of us with upgrade fever! And if any vehicle supports your argument the most, it would be the GX550 OT, I think. The AVS is damn good on that vehicle. In Sport+, you can fly around corners at highway speed and almost feel you're in a performance vehicle. Then you can go out for some quality offroading too in a softer suspension and steering setting.

But the approach angle is just a cruel gotcha from Toyota, and the ground clearance is mediocre. So I think what a lot of us want, in the 250 as well as the 550 OT, is a compromise: a couple inches of lift, especially up front, for better angles and ground clearance in exchange for limited losses in other areas. I'm currently considering the traditional spacer approach for a <1" lift, as well as Radflo's extended travel shock up front for a 1 - 2" lift. Apparently, that will work with an aftermarket UCA in the GX. The effect on the electronics/dash in the GX550 OT with AVS is not clear to me yet though with that system.

 

[Jetboy]

@Jetboy

Definitely a good sanity check for those of us with upgrade fever! And if any vehicle supports your argument the most, it would be the GX550 OT, I think. The AVS is damn good on that vehicle. In Sport+, you can fly around corners at highway speed and almost feel you're in a performance vehicle. Then you can go out for some quality offroading too in a softer suspension and steering setting.

But the approach angle is just a cruel gotcha from Toyota, and the ground clearance is mediocre. So I think what a lot of us want, in the 250 as well as the 550 OT, is a compromise: a couple inches of lift, especially up front, for better angles and ground clearance in exchange for limited losses in other areas. I'm currently considering the traditional spacer approach for a <1" lift, as well as Radflo's extended travel shock up front for a 1 - 2" lift. Apparently, that will work with an aftermarket UCA in the GX. The effect on the electronics/dash in the GX550 OT with AVS is not clear to me yet though with that system.

I've daydreamed a lot about what I could either manufacture or assemble as an aftermarket product that would allow for adjustable height IFS that could be stock for daily driving and adjust up between 1-3 inches for trail duty. The AHC on the LX600/LX570 is the holy grail of adjustable height suspension for me, but it's not realistic to do that aftermarket. Airbags end up being highly progressive spring rates that I don't love and when you are max height you also have minimum suspension travel. That sucks. What I need is either an airbag that is external to the coil spring so it adjusts height but not spring rates or a mechanism above the coilover that physically moves the coilover hat or top bushing of the shock location. Neither is readily available. I've asked a few airbag companies to develop a bag over coil spring setup for a Toyota IFS size coil or make a one-off set for me and they've all said no to both. My only other avenue I've gone down is the idea of maybe using a secondary front shock setup with an air shock with no valves on the piston. It would solely function as an air spring to adjust ride height when charged but have minimal effect when air is released.

Anyway - I think a lot of people want the same thing as you and I. Great highway ride that keeps the vehicles normal driving dynamics, but the ability to lift the front up a bit when you're on the trails to clear obstacles better. I wish I had a solution. If you find one let me know!

I think a small spacer is fine. 1 inch probably doesn't get you into the position of constant top outs or bricking the springs on compression and probably rides nicely still on the highway.

As a side note - not all aftermarket coilovers can be set to zero lift. I had Fox Factory Series 2.5" shocks on my last 4Runner and my memory is that around 1.25" of lift was the absolute minimum you could do. That was with the upper threaded adjuster all the way backed off until it was almost touching the remote reservoir plumbing. That lowest setting did result in the best ride. I did try a 1/2" shim/spacer on top of the top hats with the factory shocks on it for a little while and that resulted in just under 1 inch of front lift. I combined that initially with a hidden winch that offset the height a bit. That small shim spacer worked well and didn't effect ride quality much. I think the GX and LC250 will be a lot better in steering side with the electronic power steering. The steering feedback is probably minimal regardless of what you do, so maybe less of a concern than the older platforms.

 

[ryanjl]

FWIW - I've been through a fair amount of setups on various vehicles over the years. I think you'll find that the best possible ride and handling is at stock height. Likely with stock shocks and springs for normal highway ride. There's a lot of reasons for it, but the basics are relatively low spring rates ride better than the high spring rates many aftermarket setups use. And the OEM height has all of the suspension geometry optimized. The further you go from stock height, the more compensation you'll need to fix the suspension geometry issues. That's not just caster, but also the angles of the control arms will translate more energy into the chassis. The rear panhard out of level causes other motion issues.

I'm all for lifts. I lift most of my own junk. But - for highway use, keeping it close to stock will give you the best ride quality and often better trail performance too. Especially with the new GA-F platform that fits big tires without need for lifting or "leveling". The spring rates an valving are what will matter most in terms of ride quality. IMO the best ride will be the lower end of spring rate range and a softish progressive or linear valving for normal shocks or a bypass shock should be better than single stage if tuned properly. It's very hard to beat the OEM Toyota Fox internal bypass shocks - might just wait for the TRD Pro 4Runner or TRD Pro Tacoma takeoffs. They'll probably be better on mixed highway than any aftermarket you could buy at any price. Not sure what they'll go for once they're out on the street.

A really good mid-range option is the new ICON c-clip shocks. You could set at minimum height and have a great upgrade for the OEM shocks for not a ton of money. Should be much better than a spacer lift. I find the Bilstein 5xxx and 6xxx series to be a bit too firm for a daily driver. Fox 2.0 c-clips are quite nice. Very different from the harsh 2.5 valving. 2.0s are pretty soft. Just a few options that should be a lot better than spacers in the relatively lower end of price spectrum. Not sure what options are currently actually available though.

These guys and gals do the best shock testing I'm aware of. They do blind testing and give pretty great quality reviews. Worth a look at their blind test videos on shocks when sorting out what you want. The spacer lifts were pretty terrible in the test. Overland Outfitters - https://www.youtube.com/@OverlandOutfitters

Good luck.

I'm sure most here have seen this video, but Tinkerer mirrors what you are saying here:

 

[USAFN433]

Dobinsons has their setup for MRR and IMS. I plan to go IMS.. was very happy with it on my 200 LC.

 

[MGordo]

While I do eventually want to replace the suspension.. I went with the Wescott collars for a short term solution. So far I havent noticed any difference in city driving, and while the advertise 2.5"F, 1"R lift, mine came out to ~1.5"/1.65" F and 1" R. It sits almost completely level and quite happy so far. I have emailed Westcott to inquire why the height is different than advertised, but in reality I dont want it to be any higher or I would get reverse rake.

Original Ride Height: (Fender to hub)
LF: 20 1/4, RF: 20 3/8 LR: 21 1/2, RR: 21 1/2
With Westcott:
LF & RF: 21 7/8, LR & RR: 22 1/2

Fender to ground now sits at 37" F, 37.5" R

For now I am sitting on the stock 20's, which will have winter tires thrown on them in the next few months, and ordered some Bradley V's yesterday!

 

[Franken470]

I've only seen folks running the Icon prototype setups right now.

Edit:
Specifically it was Ben from Dissent's truck. Also Slee looked to have a Radflo setup on the LC250 they just finished a couple weeks ago for Peterson Toyota.

Slee is actually running ADS shocks on their 250… All mfg are only listing parts for 250 and not 550 at this time (likely because of electric control on suspension). Slee does have a 550 for prototype as well but hasn’t released any parts. That being said I’m running a 35x11 on stick OT rims with slight BM modification there is no rub… I don’t really see benefit in a lift since you really don’t gain articulation in an IFS setup without going long travel and I went down that road with my 470 running RCLT and 37’s. The manners with 35’s are perfectly within spec for me… just my .02.

 

[NY2LA]

Slee is actually running ADS shocks on their 250… All mfg are only listing parts for 250 and not 550 at this time (likely because of electric control on suspension). Slee does have a 550 for prototype as well but hasn’t released any parts. That being said I’m running a 35x11 on stick OT rims with slight BM modification there is no rub… I don’t really see benefit in a lift since you really don’t gain articulation in an IFS setup without going long travel and I went down that road with my 470 running RCLT and 37’s. The manners with 35’s are perfectly within spec for me… just my .02.

FYI--Radflo has a slightly longer-than-stock-travel shock they say is compatible with the 550. I've been thinking about it, but I really utilize and enjoy the AVS options of the stock suspension on the Overtrail. In fact, the Sport+ mode was very helpful the other day when I had to make a sudden maneuver on the highway--would not have been as good of a situation if I were taller and looser.

For myself, I'm thinking about a small top spacer up front to gain a half inch or inch. That, plus a low profile bumper, maybe like the one currently out from NYtop, and larger tires will go a long way toward improving clearances up front.

 

[kerner]

FWIW - I've been through a fair amount of setups on various vehicles over the years. I think you'll find that the best possible ride and handling is at stock height. Likely with stock shocks and springs for normal highway ride. There's a lot of reasons for it, but the basics are relatively low spring rates ride better than the high spring rates many aftermarket setups use. And the OEM height has all of the suspension geometry optimized. The further you go from stock height, the more compensation you'll need to fix the suspension geometry issues. That's not just caster, but also the angles of the control arms will translate more energy into the chassis. The rear panhard out of level causes other motion issues.

I'm all for lifts. I lift most of my own junk. But - for highway use, keeping it close to stock will give you the best ride quality and often better trail performance too. Especially with the new GA-F platform that fits big tires without need for lifting or "leveling". The spring rates an valving are what will matter most in terms of ride quality. IMO the best ride will be the lower end of spring rate range and a softish progressive or linear valving for normal shocks or a bypass shock should be better than single stage if tuned properly. It's very hard to beat the OEM Toyota Fox internal bypass shocks - might just wait for the TRD Pro 4Runner or TRD Pro Tacoma takeoffs. They'll probably be better on mixed highway than any aftermarket you could buy at any price. Not sure what they'll go for once they're out on the street.

A really good mid-range option is the new ICON c-clip shocks. You could set at minimum height and have a great upgrade for the OEM shocks for not a ton of money. Should be much better than a spacer lift. I find the Bilstein 5xxx and 6xxx series to be a bit too firm for a daily driver. Fox 2.0 c-clips are quite nice. Very different from the harsh 2.5 valving. 2.0s are pretty soft. Just a few options that should be a lot better than spacers in the relatively lower end of price spectrum. Not sure what options are currently actually available though.

These guys and gals do the best shock testing I'm aware of. They do blind testing and give pretty great quality reviews. Worth a look at their blind test videos on shocks when sorting out what you want. The spacer lifts were pretty terrible in the test. Overland Outfitters - https://www.youtube.com/@OverlandOutfitters

Good luck.

This has been what I'm thinking about. I really want to add 1-1.5" in the front to keep as close to the stock geometry as I can but pick up some approach angle and ground clearance. Most likely will swap the rear springs for the Dobinsons designed for better load carrying and .6" of lift. I was able to do right at an inch and switch to extended airbags in the back of the 470 and it's been great both on and off road. Hoping to do something similar on the 250.