Very interesting, I have never driven and lc but the way my lx handles for its size on road is pretty amazing to me. I wonder if adding thicker sway bars to the lx would help or just be wasted with the ahc doing all the heavy lifting anyway.
Anyone have both LC and LX 200s? Equally refined?
- Thread starter MrX
- Start date
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The LC is no doubt lighter and incrementally more nimble as a result. Curb weight puts the difference to be 300-500lbs between the LC and LX depending on model years. That's the reason the LC scores slightly higher on a figure 8. The figure 8 test is particularly sensitive to weight, and the LX carries much of that in luxury appointments higher up in the cab raising its center of gravity.
The LX doesn't rely only on sway bars for roll control. It has active abilities to use shocks and a second higher spring rate at the front axle. To get equivelent or potentially better roll resistance overall.
A single metric shouldn't to be conflated for better handling. AHC has more tools for body control and handling. Active damping. Dual spring rate at front axle. Cross corner and front to rear axle damping. As much as someone wants to deny, it's an active integrated system that responds directly to driver inputs and steering which can be seen in an AHC OBD-II dashboard. Even simple things like initiating turns or using brakes has the system auto tension up in damping and selection of the front higher spring rates. Which is why the LX is able to manage body control to keep things like brake dive or acceleration squat in check.
This plays out even more dramatically once modifying with bigger tires, higher weights in overlanding gear, or towing.
Our LX handled better at speed, no doubt about it, but I feel like the LC is more compliant in terms of soaking up road chatter around town. I like things about both platforms but the LC takes the cake for us overall. I would not be opposed to another LX in the future but after test driving the new LX600 a few weeks back I'd have a hard time justifying $105K for one, it just didn't impress me enough for that kind of coin.
Yes
I have to keep correcting your misinformation or outright lies. TECKIS300 loves to pull stuff out of you know where!
Let us use two reviews from same year (2016) to eliminate as much variables as possible. Both reviews from same magazine are within 2 weeks of each other.
2016 LC MT review: 2016 Toyota Land Cruiser First Test Review - https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2016-toyota-land-cruiser-first-test-review/amp/
2016 LX MT review: 2016 Lexus LX 570 First Test Review - https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2016-lexus-lx-570-first-test-review/amp/
Weight difference = 355 lbs heavier for LX.
0-60 and 1/4 mile: LC wins, probably due to weight difference.
Braking: LX wins, probably due to lower profile tires and maybe less brake dive?
Lateral acceleration: LX wins slightly. LX is able to pull more g’s despite more curb weight! Probably due to lower profile tires? Or maybe because AHC is able to handle predictable turning in a circle?? This goes against what Teckis300 “ass-u-me”.
BUT look at the FIGURE 8 time!
LC = 27.8 sec at 0.61g.
LX = 28.2 sec at 0.61g.
Strange how the LX is able to pull more g’s in lateral acceleration yet fell significantly behind LC in Figure 8!! This literally destroys Teckis300 argument!
Above two MT tests confirms what I wrote above. AHC is slow reacting when it comes to rapid transitions in handling or emergency maneuvers. KDSS is superior because of it being “pro-active” vs AHC reactive nature.
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Or we can talk about stock vehicle ride comfort and handling off-road between the two?
Here, LC is clearly better. LC maintains good clearances (approach, break over, departure) all the time and has a more flexible suspension for traction and comfort all the time.
LX is normally lower than LC in normal height setting. Good ride but low clearance. To get LC clearances off-road, LX would need to go to HI mode. In HI mode, the ride turns bad/rough. Articulation drops. And HI mode is speed limited.
Here, LC is clearly better. LC maintains good clearances (approach, break over, departure) all the time and has a more flexible suspension for traction and comfort all the time.
LX is normally lower than LC in normal height setting. Good ride but low clearance. To get LC clearances off-road, LX would need to go to HI mode. In HI mode, the ride turns bad/rough. Articulation drops. And HI mode is speed limited.
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Figure 8 testing by MT is actually quite telling of a suspension quick response.
Why a figure eight? Sometimes called a "race rack in a bottle," it's the best way to objectively measure how different cars accelerate, brake, and corner on their limits in a tidy, repeatable way.
Per MT:
The Motor Trend Figure Eight -- our signature testing procedure -- provides for a unique handling analysis. Run on the outside of two 200-ft diameter circles, the test essentially makes for a portable road course. It throws test subjects into handling extremes; in a given run, a car travels from full-throttle acceleration to full braking and then must transition into a constant-radius turn.
Why a figure eight? Sometimes called a "race rack in a bottle," it's the best way to objectively measure how different cars accelerate, brake, and corner on their limits in a tidy, repeatable way.
Per MT:
The Motor Trend Figure Eight -- our signature testing procedure -- provides for a unique handling analysis. Run on the outside of two 200-ft diameter circles, the test essentially makes for a portable road course. It throws test subjects into handling extremes; in a given run, a car travels from full-throttle acceleration to full braking and then must transition into a constant-radius turn.
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- Thread starter
- #28
I have to keep correcting your misinformation or outright lies. TECKIS300 loves to pull stuff out of you know where!
Let us use two reviews from same year (2016) to eliminate as much variables as possible. Both reviews are within 2 weeks of each other.
2016 LC MT review: 2016 Toyota Land Cruiser First Test Review - https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2016-toyota-land-cruiser-first-test-review/amp/
2016 LX MT review: 2016 Lexus LX 570 First Test Review - https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2016-lexus-lx-570-first-test-review/amp/
Sad they put that 8 speed in there to cut the V8's balls off for what, .5 MPG extra? It shifts twice before 60MPH. Regular 6 speed LC/LX have spunky gearing, and transmission doesn't hesitate for once millisecond for a downshift. It even holds gears in PWR mode like our IS350 did.
Here is a Car and Driver article on a 2015 (before the fun gearing was axed) that weighed 6150lbs and did 0-60 in 6.5 seconds.
Different car mags do different acceleration protocol I think. You should only compare same mag numbers. But you are right about having to shift before 60.Sad they put that 8 speed in there to cut the V8's balls off for what, .5 MPG extra? It shifts twice before 60MPH. Regular 6 speed LC/LX have spunky gearing, and transmission doesn't hesitate for once millisecond for a downshift. It even holds gears in PWR mode like our IS350 did.
Here is a Car and Driver article on a 2015 (before the fun gearing was axed) that weighed 6150lbs and did 0-60 in 6.5 seconds.
I have to keep correcting your misinformation or outright lies. TECKIS300 loves to pull stuff out of you know where!
Let us use two reviews from same year (2016) to eliminate as much variables as possible. Both reviews from same magazine are within 2 weeks of each other.
2016 LC MT review: 2016 Toyota Land Cruiser First Test Review - https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2016-toyota-land-cruiser-first-test-review/amp/
2016 LX MT review: 2016 Lexus LX 570 First Test Review - https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2016-lexus-lx-570-first-test-review/amp/
Weight difference = 355 lbs heavier for LX.
0-60 and 1/4 mile: LC wins, probably due to weight difference.
Braking: LX wins, probably due to lower profile tires and maybe less brake dive?
Lateral acceleration: LX wins slightly. LX is able to pull more g’s despite more curb weight! Probably due to lower profile tires? Or maybe because AHC is able to handle predictable turning in a circle?? This goes against what Teckis300 “ass-u-me”.
BUT look at the FIGURE 8 time!
LC = 27.8 sec at 0.61g.
LX = 28.2 sec at 0.61g.
Strange how the LX is able to pull more g’s in lateral acceleration yet fell significantly behind LC in Figure 8!! This literally destroys Teckis300 argument!
Above two MT tests confirms what I wrote above. AHC is slow reacting when it comes to rapid transitions in handling or emergency maneuvers. KDSS is superior because of it being “pro-active” vs AHC reactive nature.
Hi Mad. It's a good win for the LC.
Why does a Toyota product designed by Toyota engineers, called the LX, burn you so much? Nevermind that other markets get these fine options and upgrades on LCs.
Be happy.
I love the LX. I have always greatly appreciated the interior quality, Mark Levinson audio, and even the exterior style. Search if you want. I will always bash LC’s horrendous fake wood and underwhelming interior.
But YOUR profoundly false narrative about some of LX features is tiresome. Remember how you once said that LX handles like it is on rails and very Porsche like?!?!
That just did it for me! LolRemind me…do other markets get AHC option for LC300?
Just wanted to say.. don't care much for what the magazine says because I've owned or used these vehicles first hand.
We had the 2017 KDSS LC for a several years.
My offroad rig is a 2015 KDSS equipped 5th gen 4runner
I daily the 2020 AHC LC200
I drove the 2020 AHC LX for a while to test it out
Even tested the 2022 300 series for a week (my review thread is posted here too, in the 300 series section)
Dailied and dune bashed (Arabian style
) all the above (except the LX)
KDSS is a nice sway bar setup, with the usual crap Toyota cheapo shocks. KDSS will not alleviate or improve the fact that stock shocks are crap.. just saying.. KDSS shines on-road and during low speed flex crawling. KDSS is actually worse in high speed offroad runs (like we do around here) as the pistons are held solid above 20mph and transfers more of the energy that unsettled the suspension when offroading.
AHC is a complete package, better ride, body roll, compression/ rebound control, and weight compensation. Very impressive for a Stock setup. Will never run like the KINGs I have on the 4runner, but don't have the compromises either.
We had the 2017 KDSS LC for a several years.
My offroad rig is a 2015 KDSS equipped 5th gen 4runner
I daily the 2020 AHC LC200
I drove the 2020 AHC LX for a while to test it out
Even tested the 2022 300 series for a week (my review thread is posted here too, in the 300 series section)
Dailied and dune bashed (Arabian style
) all the above (except the LX)KDSS is a nice sway bar setup, with the usual crap Toyota cheapo shocks. KDSS will not alleviate or improve the fact that stock shocks are crap.. just saying.. KDSS shines on-road and during low speed flex crawling. KDSS is actually worse in high speed offroad runs (like we do around here) as the pistons are held solid above 20mph and transfers more of the energy that unsettled the suspension when offroading.
AHC is a complete package, better ride, body roll, compression/ rebound control, and weight compensation. Very impressive for a Stock setup. Will never run like the KINGs I have on the 4runner, but don't have the compromises either.
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Bomar
SILVER Star
I had the option to drive a 16 LC and see if I wanted to move up a year from our 15LX.
The LX blew it away in every point other than the radar cruise on LX the 5mph bumps I don’t like.
Either way not bad but the LXs are winners for me.
The LX blew it away in every point other than the radar cruise on LX the 5mph bumps I don’t like.
Either way not bad but the LXs are winners for me.
I love the LX. I have always greatly appreciated the interior quality, Mark Levinson audio, and even the exterior style. Search if you want. I will always bash LC’s horrendous fake wood and underwhelming interior.
But YOUR profoundly false narrative about some of LX features is tiresome. Remember how you once said that LX handles like it is on rails and very Porsche like?!?!
Glad you remember. I'd offer to school you on what handling really means in my coilovered 700hp 911 Turbo on a track. Then again, the weight in this case wouldn't be worth the lost tenths.
I am glad that the LX and coilovered Porsche 911 are equal in handling in your eyes.
That is all the schooling I need from you. Thanks for offer but I will politely decline.When I had my M3 in my younger years (no where as special as your 911), I am always amazed at the heavily-modified M3 and their boastful owners who never touched the track…and would get torched by my lowly stock M3 on the local racetrack.
Be happy dude. No need to try and justify anything to me.
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Wait till you have to change the AHC fluid or when it leaks or when globes go bad……see if you still think so fondly….Just wanted to say.. don't care much for what the magazine says because I've owned or used these vehicles first hand.
We had the 2017 KDSS LC for a several years.
My offroad rig is a 2015 KDSS equipped 5th gen 4runner
I daily the 2020 AHC LC200
I drove the 2020 AHC LX for a while to test it out
Even tested the 2020 300 series for a week (my review thread is posted here too)
Dailied and dune bashed (Arabian style
KDSS is a nice sway bar setup, with the usual crap Toyota cheapo shocks. KDSS will not alleviate or improve the fact that stock shocks are crap.. just saying.. KDSS shines on-road and during low speed flex crawling. KDSS is actually worse in high speed offroad runs (like we do around here) as the pistons are held solid above 20mph and transfers more of the energy that unsettled the suspension when offroading.
AHC is a complete package, better ride, body roll, compression/ rebound control, and weight compensation. Very impressive for a Stock setup. Will never run like the KINGs I have on the 4runner, but don't have the compromises either.
I wanted AHC over springs but KDSS really made the LC a joy to drive. Pulling out of parking spots much nicer than the LX, thats what sold me on the LC and I paid $7k more for it. Also originally I had intentions to mod the hell out of the LC with armour/roof rack/etc which I would have never done to a LX. I have 8 neighbors with eye catching LXs and I admire them more than my LC for their out of showroom glossy stock appearances with low overhangs. I couldn't chop an LX and I would be afraid of racing offroad at high speeds in case I damaged front bumper. The other day I ran over a wheelbarrow and completely crushed it with my KO2s at 80mph, no damage, didnt even feel it.
I love the LX for passenger hauling of 6 or less. Contemplating trading my beloved 100 for one.
I love the LX for passenger hauling of 6 or less. Contemplating trading my beloved 100 for one.
- Thread starter
- #40
Car and Driver is legit, at least they were before they turned into EV drivel. I totally believe 6.5 seconds to 60, my butt dyno pretty much confirms it. It's roughly as fast as my LS430 which is about a 6.3 second car.
The pre '16 LC/LX are significantly quicker because of the gearing. I've read articles where they complained about the 8 speed because it just goes straight for 8th gear. No fun. The pre '16 models Toyota didn't give a s*** about gas mileage.
