Another Victron to Ecoflow thread

[e9999]

there seems to be a great deal of confusion out there in WWW land about what the Ecoflows do, what cable they use and why, their specs etc. And probably especially about what their cables or the outside world will tolerate vs what the device itself can/will actively accept.

 

[MCtree]

there seems to be a great deal of confusion out there in WWW land about what the Ecoflows do, what cable they use and why, their specs etc. And probably especially about what their cables or the outside world will tolerate vs what the device itself can/will actively accept.

Yes. That’s certainly the case. Lots of opinions out there.

I suspect part is due to how few people actually understand electricity (I am not one of those select few) and then Ecoflow further complicates it by trying to obscure things so you have to buy items from them - which I would be good with if they provided everything I need (like fast car charging).

 

[e9999]

damned thing is too smart (sorta) for its own good. Playing games with recognizing connectors in order to assume what cable you are using so it can limit input and all that... But that only works with their own OEM cables. So the lawyers were hard at work it seems. Sheesh...

 

[FrazzledHunter]

So you were using the Victron in a mode that followed a battery charging profile that in turn was connected to a solar controller. Is that correct? If so then I can't even begin to imagine what was going on electrically. The absence of a start delay never was an issue for me as the restart voltage was at a value where the engine was idling.

In the end, if you set your cutoff & restart voltages at 12.5V/13.2V I can't imagine how your battery can creep up in charge. In any event, if your battery is at 12.5V then your LC will start.

Not sure there's much I can add.

 

[MCtree]

So you were using the Victron in a mode that followed a battery charging profile that in turn was connected to a solar controller. Is that correct? If so then I can't even begin to imagine what was going on electrically. The absence of a start delay never was an issue for me as the restart voltage was at a value where the engine was idling.

In the end, if you set your cutoff & restart voltages at 12.5V/13.2V I can't imagine how your battery can creep up in charge. In any event, if your battery is at 12.5V then your LC will start.

Not sure there's much I can add.

Ha! And I’m not sure how the Redarc BCDC is also affecting the entire equation.

But I’m in the process now of shortening all my wires and then I’ll try again in just power mode.

Also, keep in mind that it’s the Aux battery, not my starter battery.
Which further emphasizes what you are saying…..

 

[MCtree]

So you were using the Victron in a mode that followed a battery charging profile that in turn was connected to a solar controller. Is that correct? If so then I can't even begin to imagine what was going on electrically. The absence of a start delay never was an issue for me as the restart voltage was at a value where the engine was idling.

In the end, if you set your cutoff & restart voltages at 12.5V/13.2V I can't imagine how your battery can creep up in charge. In any event, if your battery is at 12.5V then your LC will start.

Not sure there's much I can add.

Oh…. But tell me if I’m thinking about this wrong. The way my battery creeps up in charge is by taking the load off of the circuit. It always reads a higher voltage when it’s not actively charging the ecoflow. So when the voltage drops to whatever my shut-off V is, the Orion stops sending power to the ecoflow and then the voltage creeps back up.

Does it not do this to you?

 

[FrazzledHunter]

Oh…. But tell me if I’m thinking about this wrong. The way my battery creeps up in charge is by taking the load off of the circuit. It always reads a higher voltage when it’s not actively charging the ecoflow. So when the voltage drops to whatever my shut-off V is, the Orion stops sending power to the ecoflow and then the voltage creeps back up.

Does it not do this to you?

No the primary battery never "creeps up" after I stop. I turn off the motor and the battery slowly drains. It has always done that. It does it a bit faster since I added an always on dashcam which is a slight parasitic draw.

In other words I turn off the motor it's at voltage X. If not driven it's X- in 24 hours. In 48 hours it's X--. And so on. I have seen it get to 11.25V after a week sitting idle and still start.

Your redarc must be drawing to charge that 2nd battery. I can't think of anything else.

Ok i have seen batteries recover a surface charge which doesn't hold up even under a slight load. I call it a ghost charge. But batteries of any chemistry just don't charge themselves that much. At least I just can't fathom that they do.

 

[MCtree]

Perhaps I shouldn’t say “creep up.”
What I mean is if there is a load and you use a multimeter to check voltage it will always read lower than when there isn’t a load.

So when the Orion stops charging due to the voltage dropping to X, the voltage will bounce back up to something higher than X simply because the load on the circuit was removed.
And then the Orion turns back on because you are now above the threshold.
And then the voltage drops back down because the load has been reintroduced.
It becomes a cycle as the battery slowly falls below both thresholds programmed into the Orion.

Does that make sense?
I fear that my lack of knowledge of electricity is allowing me to state all this in very imprecise terms and I’m confusing the matter.

 

[FrazzledHunter]

Perhaps I shouldn’t say “creep up.”
What I mean is if there is a load and you use a multimeter to check voltage it will always read lower than when there isn’t a load.

So when the Orion stops charging due to the voltage dropping to X, the voltage will bounce back up to something higher than X simply because the load on the circuit was removed.
And then the Orion turns back on because you are now above the threshold.
And then the voltage drops back down because the load has been reintroduced.
It becomes a cycle as the battery slowly falls below both thresholds programmed into the Orion.

Does that make sense?
I fear that my lack of knowledge of electricity is allowing me to state all this in very imprecise terms and I’m confusing the matter.

Ohhhhhhhhhh...yeah mine acts like that. But my start stop voltages manage to be outside of that.
If you look at my drawing you'll see voltage measurements at both the input and output of the Victron Orion.
Experimentation got me values that seem to work.

• The input reads 13.21 V but I'm betting the voltage would be higher around 13.6 V with it disconnected.
• The output reads 16.53 V but it would be 24V with no load (I realize this isn't the issue at hand I'm just pointing out that the same is observed by the Victron).
  • It's a serious concern however, because my Goal Zero 1500X will not charge below 14V as it's a PV (solar) input. Many other devices act this way as well, perhaps yours does too.

As an aside...
The only yikes moment I had was when I heard you were running the Victron in charger mode. I don't know if this can hurt the Victron or not but it tells the Victron to follow a charging profile that, if it's charging a battery, limits current in the various charging phases. Your PV controller on the Ecoflow thinks it's talking to a solar array. So, the Ecoflow will make voltage adjustments to maximize power throughput (i.e. current). The Victron will (I think) be tricked into thinking the battery is in the initial high current phases. This seems a bit weird to me and I never tried it that way.

 

[MCtree]

Argh!
Even in power mode the victron still only puts out around 20V - even when I have the output set to 28V.

At this point, I have to assume it’s either something to do with the MPPT in the Ecoflow.
Or my Victron Orion is faulty.

I would bet on the former since I can, at the beginning of a day when I test, get the full 28V out of the Orion into the Ecoflow.
It’s only when I interrupt the charging in some way that, upon restarting, the output voltage is limited.

I guess I can learn to live with this. Just know that each day I get one shot at reduced time in charging.
I just hate the not knowing.

Hopefully Ecoflow comes out with their DC/DC fast charger soon.

 

[FrazzledHunter]

Argh!
Even in power mode the victron still only puts out around 20V - even when I have the output set to 28V.

At this point, I have to assume it’s either something to do with the MPPT in the Ecoflow.
Or my Victron Orion is faulty.

I would bet on the former since I can, at the beginning of a day when I test, get the full 28V out of the Orion into the Ecoflow.
It’s only when I interrupt the charging in some way that, upon restarting, the output voltage is limited.

I guess I can learn to live with this. Just know that each day I get one shot at reduced time in charging.
I just hate the not knowing.

Hopefully Ecoflow comes out with their DC/DC fast charger soon.

This is probably ok. My Orion is set at 24v and doesn't run at 24. See my drawing. I was confused too until I got a powerwerx inline power meter. It's current or power in watts that you care about. So long as your voltage is above the point where your ecoflow will charge (my Yeti requires 14v) you don't care about voltage.
Edit: stay in power supply mode. There's too many variables in charger mode.

 

[MCtree]

Agreed… mostly.
But with an Ecoflow, the lower voltage means that the mppt on the ecloflow limits the input wattage.
If I’m getting 28V I get 370watts (roughly) in and if I’m at 20V, I get 280watts into the Ecoflow. This means charging time is 30% longer.

But it’s still much much faster than the 100watts I’m limited to if I just use the 12V car charger without the Victron.
So I’m not totally disgruntled.

Edit: and yes, I take your point. I will stay in power supply mode. Too many moving parts already. I don’t need to add another “smart” component.

 

[MCtree]

For what it’s worth, it seems the Ecoflow brand fast alternator charger will be ready for shipping in May.

EcoFlow 800W Alternator Charger | 800W Alternator Charger

Charge while you drive, and stay powered up on the road. 800W turbo alternator, 8× faster than traditional in-vehicle auxiliary power outlets. Top up 1kWh in only 1.3 hours. A 3-in-1 fast charger, maintainer, and jump starter keeps your battery in mint condition. Easy installation Suitable for a...

us.ecoflow.com

At $600, they must think it’s awfully special.
At that price, I think I’ll wait until I see some reviews on it before I buy it. Or see some install videos.

 

[MCtree]

Also… 800watts seems like a lot to pull out of our alternators.
66 Amps might be more than I am willing to pull. So I wonder if it has adjustable settings.

 

[dogdaysindurham]

I pre-order one for my Ecoflow Delta 2, but I got it for only 200 bucks as part of a special they were offering with the Wave 2 A/C unit with battery. I will update once I get it installed.

I don't think it's worth the 600 MSRP Ecoflow is asking though. I do like that I can hook my solar into the hub, and it allows for me to use my Ecoflow to charge my truck batteries.

For what it’s worth, it seems the Ecoflow brand fast alternator charger will be ready for shipping in May.

EcoFlow 800W Alternator Charger | 800W Alternator Charger

Charge while you drive, and stay powered up on the road. 800W turbo alternator, 8× faster than traditional in-vehicle auxiliary power outlets. Top up 1kWh in only 1.3 hours. A 3-in-1 fast charger, maintainer, and jump starter keeps your battery in mint condition. Easy installation Suitable for a...

us.ecoflow.com

At $600, they must think it’s awfully special.
At that price, I think I’ll wait until I see some reviews on it before I buy it. Or see some install videos.

 

[MCtree]

I pre-order one for my Ecoflow Delta 2, but I got it for only 200 bucks as part of a special they were offering with the Wave 2 A/C unit with battery. I will update once I get it installed.

I don't think it's worth the 600 MSRP Ecoflow is asking though. I do like that I can hook my solar into the hub, and it allows for me to use my Ecoflow to charge my truck batteries.

Oh wow. A real life user!

So do you have it yet? I’m curious as to how hot it gets.
And also how quickly it charges your Delta 2?

 

[dogdaysindurham]

It hasn’t shipped yet. Will report once it does.

I did get the Wave 2 and the battery for it. Impressed at how well it cools down a room. Should work great for the RTT.

 

[MCtree]

For what it’s worth, I purchased a

It hasn’t shipped yet. Will report once it does.

I did get the Wave 2 and the battery for it. Impressed at how well it cools down a room. Should work great for the RTT.

Cool! Please do let us know what you think, once you get it. I am curious.

For what it’s worth, because of the issues I had with the Victron Smart Isolated Orion 12-24V 15A DC to DC that I list previously in this thread, I purchased the Victron 12-24 20amp non-smart non-isolated. This is the one tinkerer uses in his video.

It works like a charm!
I get a consistent 405watts when charging my Delta 2.
It’s also smaller and lighter than the Orion smart DC to DC.
And it has an internal fan so it’s one less device I have to mess with. (I was planning on using an external fan.)
Also, it’s more efficient so it’s a bit cooler.

All in all, I am sad that I wasted the $330 on the Orion Smart model.
Though there is no Bluetooth on this version of DC to DC converter that I am using now.

 

[e9999]

I could not bring myself to reread all of the above but I'm surprised. I would assume that you can turn off or reset all the "smart" features on the smart DCDC Victron. And it can be set to fixed voltage anyway, so what was the difference that solved your issue, exactly?

And I have to say that I would find it hard to be without bluetooth data monitoring on my Victron devices.

 

[MCtree]

My issue was that with the smart Orion, I could get 375watts or so into my Ecoflow delta. Maybe this would fall to 365watts as it heated up.
But if I interrupted the charging process at all. Unplugging it or stopping the charging via the victron bluetooth app, something would limit the output to 280watts for the rest of the day. I could never figure out if it was the ecoflow or the victron that was causing this limitation.

And I experienced this in both charging and power source mode on the Orion.

Like we discussed above, it could have been either the brains in the Orion or the brains in the ecoflow that were causing this issue, but something was limiting the input into the ecoflow.

Now, with the not-smart, non-isolated 12-24V 20amp Victron unit, I am able to get a consistent 405V all the time. No matter how I interrupt charging.

But you are right, I do give up the Bluetooth controls.
I can watch the input wattage via the ecoflow bluetooth - but I can not shut off the charging via the victron bluetooth like I could before.

Also, with the non-smart unit, I don’t have it the protection from running out my starter battery when the engine isn’t running.
(But in my case, this is less of a worry since I’m pulling from my auxiliary battery and my starter battery is protected by a redarc bddc so this is less of a concern… I think/hope)

So, as usual, there are trade-offs.