Another 230V outlet plug question for a welder.

[Silicon 70]

So I bought a Millermatic 211 Auto-Set in February and began welding on scraps. My goal is to do a spring over on my 40. After a lot of practicing on scraps of of metal I think I'm now ready to do the SOA. I've done a lot of reading about how I don't need to have a 230v outlet and can just pre-heat the metal to 400 degrees and do double passes. I find out that I have a 230v outlet that's not being used. I did some simple tests to confirm this and found it to be true.

This dryer outlet is currently a 10-30R and the welder needs a 6-50R to work.

2 questions come to mind. Would it be easier to just replace the receptacle to accommodate the welder and run an extension cord from where the dryer is to the garage?

OR.......

Would it be easier to install a conduit in the garage itself near the Main Fuse Panel?

I'm asking because the MFP is in the garage and 230v dryer outlet is not being used, why not move it to the garage next to the MFP. This way I don't have to build a long extension cord.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

 

[fj40charles]

So I bought a Millermatic 211 Auto-Set in February and began welding on scraps. My goal is to do a spring over on my 40. After a lot of practicing on scraps of of metal I think I'm now ready to do the SOA. I've done a lot of reading about how I don't need to have a 230v outlet and can just pre-heat the metal to 400 degrees and do double passes. I find out that I have a 230v outlet that's not being used. I did some simple tests to confirm this and found it to be true.

This dryer outlet is currently a 10-30R and the welder needs a 6-50R to work.

2 questions come to mind. Would it be easier to just replace the receptacle to accommodate the welder and run an extension cord from where the dryer is to the garage?

OR.......

Would it be easier to install a conduit in the garage itself near the Main Fuse Panel?

I'm asking because the MFP is in the garage and 230v dryer outlet is not being used, why not move it to the garage next to the MFP. This way I don't have to build a long extension cord.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

I would leave the dryer receptacle alone. Install an new 230v circuit. Doesn't get any easier than having the panel in the garage. Might want to consider two 230v circuits. One for welder and one for 230v air compressor or any other need you might have in the future.

Another option is to make an adapter with male dryer plug and female 6-50R (receptacle) so you don't have to mess with the plug on the welder.

 

[fj40charles]

I've done a lot of reading about how I don't need to have a 230v outlet and can just pre-heat the metal to 400 degrees and do double passes.

Some people will argue that you can weld 1" thick material with a 110v welder doing a thousand passes.

I respectfully disagree.

IMHO, there is no reason NOT to run your Millermatic 211 using 230v when you have access to 230v power.

It will work better and allow to to weld thicker material.

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

The Miller 211 auto set max input power is > 230 V, 25 A, 60 Hz, 1-Phase < per Miller specs.

Your dryer outlet is rated a 30amps = no problem

 

[Silicon 70]

I would leave the dryer receptacle alone. Install an new 230v circuit. Doesn't get any easier than having the panel in the garage. Might want to consider two 230v circuits. One for welder and one for 230v air compressor or any other need you might have in the future.

I don't think I can install a new 230V circuit right now. I should have mentioned this earlier, but I'm having solar panels put on the house very soon and the folks from the solar company have already done the final survey of the house and submitted the necessary permits to the city to begin construction. I was told(not too sure though) they would need the remaining slots on MFP for the solar panels. And of course I don't want to wait until July to find out if they are or aren't going to use the remaining slots.

Another option is to make an adapter with male dryer plug and female 6-50R (receptacle) so you don't have to mess with the plug on the welder.

I actually have a 25' 8/3 extension cord that has a 6-50P plug and a 6-50R receptacle. I don't know why I didn't mention that before. Must've slipped my mind. I could just change the dryer outlet to a 6-50P and use this cord. I am kind of afraid that a 8 gauge cord is too thick and will trip the 30amp breaker. That's why I hesitate to use it.

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

<snip>


I actually have a 25' 8/3 extension cord that has a 6-50P plug and a 6-50R receptacle. I could just change the dryer outlet to a 6-50P and use this cord. I am kind of afraid that a 8 gauge cord is too thick and will trip the 30amp breaker. That's why I hesitate to use it.

Under sized/rated cords promote excess draw and tripping of breakers, not over sized.
Your 25' 8/3 extension cord is an excellent and safe option.

 

[Silicon 70]

Under sized/rated cords promote excess draw and tripping of breakers, not over sized.
Your 25' 8/3 extension cord is an excellent and safe option.

Ahh, for the longest time I was under the impression that it was the other way. What you stated makes a whole lot of sense.

 

[fj40charles]

I actually have a 25' 8/3 extension cord that has a 6-50P plug and a 6-50R receptacle. I don't know why I didn't mention that before. Must've slipped my mind. I could just change the dryer outlet to a 6-50P and use this cord. I am kind of afraid that a 8 gauge cord is too thick and will trip the 30amp breaker. That's why I hesitate to use it.

8 gauge extension cord is fine to use. Gauge of the cord in this case will not cause the breaker to trip.
For reference, an 8 gauge cord at 230v is good for 40 amps. Your MM211 will never pull that much current.

If you use NEC article 630, it should be good for 50amps.

 

[lowenbrau]

I'd replace the male end of your extension cord with a 30 Amp plug to match the dryer rather than putting a 50 amp outlet on a 30 amp circuit and wiring. Either will get the job done but with my suggestion when you unplug the extension cord your house will be back to code. Your insurer will be a pain to deal with if you ever have a fire and they find a 50 amp receptacle on #10 wire.

 

[Silicon 70]

I'd replace the male end of your extension cord with a 30 Amp plug to match the dryer rather than putting a 50 amp outlet on a 30 amp circuit and wiring. Either will get the job done but with my suggestion when you unplug the extension cord your house will be back to code. Your insurer will be a pain to deal with if you ever have a fire and they find a 50 amp receptacle on #10 wire.

Wow! That didn't even cross my mind. So if I hired a certified electrician to put in a 230V outlet in the garage, would I still be out of code? I'm going to guess yes.

Its a pain moving the huge washer and dryer because the plug is literally right in between them.

 

[cruiser88]

lol got TWO free 110 circuits in the garage?

 

[LAMBCRUSHER]

I'd replace the male end of your extension cord with a 30 Amp plug to match the dryer rather than putting a 50 amp outlet on a 30 amp circuit and wiring. Either will get the job done but with my suggestion when you unplug the extension cord your house will be back to code. Your insurer will be a pain to deal with if you ever have a fire and they find a 50 amp receptacle on #10 wire.

This......

 

[Silicon 70]

What I'm thinking of doing is buying a male dryer end plug(10-30P), 6-50R(receptacle) for the welder and some 8/3 wire. I would then mount it in a suitable location on the wall above the washer and dryer, this way I wouldn't have to move them every time I needed to use my welder.

In effect, I'm just making an extension cord and the 30A dryer receptacle does not need to be replaced with a 50A receptacle. My house would still be up to code.

Thoughts anyone????

 

[fj40charles]

What I'm thinking of doing is buying a male dryer end plug(10-30P), 6-50R(receptacle) for the welder and some 8/3 wire. I would then mount it in a suitable location on the wall above the washer and dryer, this way I wouldn't have to move them every time I needed to use my welder.

In effect, I'm just making an extension cord and the 30A dryer receptacle does not need to be replaced with a 50A receptacle. My house would still be up to code.

Thoughts anyone????

Lots of trouble IMHO. I would call the solar panel folks and find out exactly how many breaker slots they'll be using the panel. If you have space, I'd add another circuit. Very easy to do and you will not violate any codes PROVIDED that you wire it up to your city's code. City will tell you a permit is required.

 

[Silicon 70]

Lots of trouble IMHO. I would call the solar panel folks and find out exactly how many breaker slots they'll be using the panel. If you have space, I'd add another circuit. Very easy to do and you will not violate any codes PROVIDED that you wire it up to your city's code. City will tell you a permit is required.

I left them a message and I'll send an e-mail just to make sure they got it. In case they are using the remaining slots(I have to plan for both scenarios), would lowenbrau's solution below be an option to consider? Moving the washer and dryer every time I need to use 230v outlet is something I'd like to avoid, but if the solution below is the best one then I'll deal with it.

I'd replace the male end of your extension cord with a 30 Amp plug to match the dryer rather than putting a 50 amp outlet on a 30 amp circuit and wiring. Either will get the job done but with my suggestion when you unplug the extension cord your house will be back to code. Your insurer will be a pain to deal with if you ever have a fire and they find a 50 amp receptacle on #10 wire.

 

[porten1134]

how old is the panel? you might be able to buy a few twin breakers and free up a spot, or use one of those fancy breakers that have a 2 pole 30 and ( 2 ) single pole breakers.

you could also use the 2 spots to feed another sub panel. i think you'll find having a welder plug in the garage is much better than running cords. besides having the wife complain that garage smells are coming through the garage door. that and the cord will get some decent abuse if its being smashed by the door.

even if you didn't have a panel that could use twin breakers you could use the NEC's tap rule to feed a smaller sub panel in the garage. add a little conduit and wire and now you can provide dedicated recepticles for whatever draws a lot of power, or convienience recepticles wherever you might want. no more extention cords and your buddies will think your cool!

 

[LAMBCRUSHER]

slap a sub panel inside the garage just behind the main. move some of the circuits from the main to the sub opening up 2 more spaces in the main for the sub feed breaker, leaving the spaces for the inverter breakers. have some extra spaces left over in the sub. mount welder receptacle box below sub panel in garage. Good lectrician should be able to do this w/i 6 hours or less. prolly less than 150 in materials. permitting and inspection will cost, but if done right, shouldn't kill the deal. i'd say between 4 and 6 hundo out the door with the work being done by pros.

 

[toy4xfun]

so you want to run a 50 amp welder off of a 30 amp outlet! and if you are planing on any extension cord for a welder, i would not go under 6 gauge wire, but then i am just the town drunk, and no nothing about electricity!

 

[fj40charles]

so you want to run a 50 amp welder off of a 30 amp outlet! and if you are planing on any extension cord for a welder, i would not go under 6 gauge wire, but then i am just the town drunk, and no nothing about electricity!

Read up on NEC article 630. That will provide some answers for you.

A 10 gauge extension cord would be fine for his little welder. I don't see a Millermatic 211 pulling 30 amps continuously.

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

Read up on NEC article 630. That will provide some answers for you.

A 10 gauge extension cord would be fine for his little welder. I don't see a Millermatic 211 pulling 30 amps continuously.

From post #3

>Max input 230 V, 25 A, 60 Hz, 1-Phase < per Miller specs