All electric camping?

[ntsqd]

Electric Camping

Curious to see what y'all think of this!

Friends and I did some rough calcs on power availability vs. consumption and it does look feasible.

 

[joseywales]

I love propane. All electric is not in my future. Cost of systems is still ridiculous. Thousands in batteries, solar, inverters etc vs a $5.00 propane bottle and your good old Colman…

Full disclosure, I own a company that builds custom Airstream trailers. We do install all of the above mentioned systems on a daily basis, and there are positives to some of them. But for my own personal trailer, I still want my fridge, stove etc to run off propane.

 

[ntsqd]

If they'd just get fuel cells to the point that I could feed one from my propane bottle!

 

[e9999]

Me, I think a happy compromise could be had. Things like lighting, electronics and a fridge can all be done fairly easily with a small bit of solar power. 200W of panels and one battery and you're set. Where it gets more difficult is the cooking, IMO, because that takes big amounts of power. And I like grilling stuff anyway more than just frying it. So I would probably be quite content to have propane for a grill / stove and electric for everything else. That would also avoid needing the bigger wiring and inverter needed for electric cooking. And a 20 or even 10lbs propane tank would last a long time just cooking stuff. Using the argument that it can run out is kinda weak, I think. Just plan for that. Heck, you can even refill propane containers yourself if you prefer smaller bottles, much cheaper.

Interestingly (to me), I tested a single coil induction plate as I was curious what it takes to run it. Turns out that even on lower settings it was using quite a bit of power at times, somewhere around 800 or 1000W IIRC, at least momentarily (just cycling it on and off more at lower settings), so you'd have to wire for that and would need to plan for 70A and more. Not a huge deal but not easier than 10ga either.

 

[peesalot]

Is there a way to use electricity to create heat without just running the circuit thru an element ? Like using the elec to stimulate a reaction that can happen again & again as the elec is on & off ? Think reversing a solar panel ?

 

[e9999]

If you "reverse" a solar panel you get a big (bad) LED, sorta.

Depends on what you mean by "creating" heat, but in the broader sense, yes: for instance, a heat pump or a thermoelectric device will deliver heat without a true heating element (although in the TED case, there will be some Joule heating involved). But -sadly- the temperature likely won't be high enough for a good steak with those.

Nerd alert: oddly, a heat pump can have an efficiency higher than 100%! Ain't that something?

 

[ntsqd]

If I recall correctly we're talking around the edges of a Peltier Device.

 

[e9999]

Yes. I have a little thermoelectric "fridge" that can heat stuff up as well as cool things down. Terrible fridge (and oven) though. It can only do 35F below and 60F above ambient temp.

But let's not forget you can heat up your burrito very well on your exhaust header! That one really is free energy to be had!

 

[george_tlc]

1 litre of petrol is about 33,000,000 joules of energy. Let's say we can cook for 4 hours continuously with that 1 litre and most of that energy is going into cooking heat versus 'escaping out the side'. That means we are using 33,000,000/(4 x 3600) = 2300 joules per second. A 12V battery (let's assume 13V) would need to provide 2300/13 = 176 AMPS continuously for that 4 hours.... Lot's of AH

Obviously there's some assumptions of how the heating is occurring, but the above numbers give us an idea of the challenges of using electricity for cooking while out camping.

Lighting is fine with electricity/battery, but cooking I prefer liquid fuel. While camping.

cheers,
george.

 

[e9999]

What are those Jools and litres you are speaking of? Why do you hate America? BTUs, BTUS! Gallons, GALLONS!


nerdish freebie #2: 1 canadian gallon = 1.2 US gallons! so much for the better mpg of canadian landcruisers...

 

[Ragnaroek]

Nothing beats a compressor fridge for keeping stuff cool in hot weather. Most important bit of electric camping gear imo.
For cooking in camp I prefer petrol/gasoline for ease of handling and availability. Unless i can get the same 4500W my fuel burner delivers from an induction stove without spending thousands, I don't want one.

For actual work, some good LED lights are a must. Otherwise, I'm a bit old school.

 

[FrazzledHunter]

Electric Camping

Curious to see what y'all think of this!

Friends and I did some rough calcs on power availability vs. consumption and it does look feasible.

Interesting video. It mentions several things we experienced most notably the need to charge batteries from the tow vehicle and the convenience of electric appliances over gas or liquid fuel. This dovetailed into our quest for an off-grid capable travel trailer but that's a whole other story.

We tent camped for a few years with a Yeti Goal Zero 1500X power station that we charged with a Victron Orion 12|24-15 connected to the starter battery. The 1500X powered a Dometic 75L dual zone refrigerator/freezer, camp lighting, fans, cell phone chargers, you name it. Here I became an instant fan of 12V fridges. We also learned how far a 100Ah battery would go. We just loved sitting out in the Florida Everglades eating Klondike bars in the campground as onlookers wondered how we could do that LOL.

We also have a 2nd 55Ah battery under the hood that is charged via a REDARC BCDC 1225D. That 2nd battery came in real handy when we twice flattened the Goal Zero the last day in camp and had to run the fridge overnight while we charged the goal zero in a motel room.

Counting watts became a fact of camp life just like checking how much Coleman camp fuel was left in the can.

 

[FrazzledHunter]

I love propane. All electric is not in my future. Cost of systems is still ridiculous. Thousands in batteries, solar, inverters etc vs a $5.00 propane bottle and your good old Colman…

Full disclosure, I own a company that builds custom Airstream trailers. We do install all of the above mentioned systems on a daily basis, and there are positives to some of them. But for my own personal trailer, I still want my fridge, stove etc to run off propane.

I think I wish I had met you when we were shopping for travel trailers.
Assuming I had spec'd solar panels, a large bank of 12V lithium batteries, a 12V fridge/freezer and large inverter for one of your custom Airstream trailers.
I'm curious as to what you would offer a customer that asked for a solution to charge the travel trailer's lithium batteries from the tow vehicle at a rate of 30A or more.

 

[e9999]

To avoid a bad surprise, you can put a meter on your battery that keeps track of charge, with alarms when the charge gets too low. I use a Victron Smartshunt which works fine, if a bit oversized for my uses, but I assume there are much cheaper ones out there, of course.

 

[ntsqd]

Used to be that an inline device called a "Watt's Up", intended for RC battery use, was used by folks who needed a simple A-Hr meter. Used to see them on amazon, haven't looked in a long while.

 

[e9999]

I have seen those for DC systems, little inlines units similar to some other brands I have, but the ones I remember -and mine- appear unidirectional and intended only to measure a load on the battery. As far as I know, these would not be useful to keep track of both charges and discharges. I'd be tempted to see if they can be used in reverse but I'd rather not blow them up just yet, so won't do that for now... (I also remember thinking that most were grossly misrepresented. I have one that is labelled as 130A but has 12ga wires on it, sheesh...)

OTOH, my Victron Smartshunt is specced at 500A and it shows. Big, programmable, keeps track of data, alarms, bluetooth, networks with controllers and voltage sensors, etc. Nice. Well, except for the usual paltry Victron bluetooth range. And not cheap. The big thing is that it actually keeps track of the state of charge of the battery. You wire it so all the current in or out of the battery goes though it, set it to 100% when you're sure it's fully charged, after that it measures the current cumulatively both directions and you can be reasonably sure you know the SoC at any time later by checking the app or VRM. Of course, you can instead just measure the battery voltage and estimate the SoC but that does not work well with LiFePo batteries and/or when the battery is not rested.

 

[ntsqd]

yeah, that 12 ga. vs stated ampacity conflict thing is why, I suspect, they've fallen out of favor on the pop-top camper's forum that I frequent. One thing that mildly rebates that is that the wires on an RC vehicle usually are not very long. 10 inches would be exceptionally long.

 

[peesalot]

A thought on this subject. Alot of us have solar and it works great. As we increase the power consumption more batt & solar required. I find that most of the time I am camping close to running water. Does anyone know of a water wheel generator or kit ? I can make one but thought there might be something on the market ? I was thinking it could be quite compact and could provide power constant. A multi piece wheel that could be assembled on site & an alt, a vacuum cleaner belt and some pulley selection ?

 

[ntsqd]

I've sure never seen one. Windmills, yes, but not anything water driven. There's your market niche. Get on it before someone else does!

 

[TomEf]

Used to be that an inline device called a "Watt's Up", intended for RC battery use, was used by folks who needed a simple A-Hr meter. Used to see them on amazon, haven't looked in a long while.

Renogy has some good bi-directional options for a reasonable price. I'm guessing the RC battery monitors went away as LiPo chargers got pretty smart.