A tale of two birfields (1 Viewer)

[Osoraku]

Anyone out there who could help me, who may know which birfield my truck should take, by p/n or length? It’s a March/93 FZJ.

246mm or 251mm?

Are there different thicknesses of drive flange that work for each length of birfield?

Without looking I am trying to determine if the ABS tone ring could be out of alignment with the sensor if I had the wrong length of birfield in the truck. That is my step one, that is, without looking.

 

[NLXTACY]

There are two different flanges for early and late axles. 8mm difference. You can use either birf with matching flange so long as the ABS tone ring is moved as well. On an older truck you could easily have NOT the original lengths in there. So if replacing a birf, replace with correct year flange for the birf.

 

[Osoraku]

There are two different flanges for early and late axles. 8mm difference. You can use either birf with matching flange so long as the ABS tone ring is moved as well. On an older truck you could easily have NOT the original lengths in there. So if replacing a birf, replace with correct year flange for the birf.

Right now, I have a good seal (not leaking) and it leads me to believe the flange and birf are compatible with one another, based on very limited experience and knowledge of the inner workings, and some stuff the PO told me.

If my thinking is wrong, please correct me. If this is correct however, it sounds like I may need to and be able to physically move and relocate the tone ring to get it aligned with the sensor, even if it’s not the right length birfield for my truck. Would that sound right to you?
Thank you so much for your response. I appreciate your contributions all over this forum.

 

[Rifleman]

The change over in brifield length happen in April 1994. The thickness of the drive plates on the front hubs were increased after April 1994 (build date). The new drive flange number is 43421-60040 and the old one is 43421-60022. If you try to install an earlier birfield into a later truck, you will not be able to install the circlip on the end of the axle shaft.

 

[Osoraku]

Not sure, but I think heading in there to move a tone ring is my plan. Non-reusable parts for this mission would be reallly great to know about, I’ll order them but if anyone could shed light on those I’d be tickled 045.

 

[Osoraku]

The change over in brifield length happen in April 1994. The thickness of the drive plates on the front hubs were increased after April 1994 (build date). The new drive flange number is 43421-60040 and the old one is 43421-60022. If you try to install an earlier birfield into a later truck, you will not be able to install the circlip on the end of the axle shaft.

On this topic of the circlip, the PO was telling me he had the idea of resolving an incompatibility of birfield and flange of different years, by machining a new groove into the birfield for the circlip. Can you see a situation where this would work? I am thinking he was talking about longer birfield, thinner flange. Does that work?

 

[Road Apple]

Call Cruiser Outfitter on Monday morning for very knowledgeable advice on which parts you need for your year and type of driving you intend.

1 (801) 563-1277

Cruiser Outfitters

 

[-Spike-]

On this topic of the circlip, the PO was telling me he had the idea of resolving an incompatibility of birfield and flange of different years, by machining a new groove into the birfield for the circlip. Can you see a situation where this would work? I am thinking he was talking about longer birfield, thinner flange. Does that work?

You could probably do that, but the early (thinner) flanges are weaker and an known failure point, and new flanges aren't super expensive IIRC. Plus you'd probably have to cut the end of the birf axle stub off to get it to fit under the grease cap. If you have early flanges, I'd take the opportunity to upgrade to the later flange/birfields. I believe I have read or seen a method to determine which you have while they're still on the truck. You just need the measurements of each- it's a third of an inch different, not like you need micrometer accuracy.

 

[mudgudgeon]

What are you trying to achieve?

Without looking I am trying to determine if the ABS tone ring could be out of alignment with the sensor if I had the wrong length of birfield in the truck. That is my step one, that is, without looking.

I don't believe there's any difference in the bell end of the birfields regardless of the length.
The tone ring will be in the same place.

 

[Osoraku]

What are you trying to achieve?



I don't believe there's any difference in the bell end of the birfields regardless of the length.
The tone ring will be in the same place.

That’s helpful. There was a comment eariler in this thread that got me thinking I could move the tone ring. I may be misinterpreting... but began to believe that the tone ring will need to be moved to get the sensor over it, when the comment might have meant something different.

I have had the ABS light on since I bought the truck, and chasing down why has been frustrating. I can not get the truck plated and insured with it on, where I am living.
The PO finally told me that there was a wrong part installed by a dealership here and that they then refused to correct it.I get to wondering if the ABS tone ring is in fact in the same position regardless of which of the two birfs go in. If so, I’ll look to solve the issue some other way. I believe my sensor to be good. Wiring to it is also good. So, I’m working to determine if the wrong birfield could be doing this.

I appreciate your comment that the tone ring should be in the same place.. that is, it should land under the sensor no matter which ABS birf is used. If that’s true, I suspect a non abs birfield was put in there from a 91-92. Today, and I’m very excitied about this, I’ll go to where the truck is parked and with a mirror and flashlight visually inspect if I can see the ring, I’ll also get it to throw me a code for some up-to-date information.

 

[Osoraku]

I am investigating now. For the life of me I see no tone ring present.
What are the odds I could take a tone ring off a birf I have that does not couple with the flange I have, and put it on the non abs birf in the truck. I’m guessing good odds. So far this year my PM etc has not been too costly and I’d like to keep it that way if possible. I know that buying the right parts is the way to go etc, my love for this cruiser exceeds my cashflow by a 100x, and I have a mechanic who might be game to help me tear into the wheel. Ideas begetting ideas.

 

[Osoraku]

I am investigating now. For the life of me I see no tone ring present.
What are the odds I could take a tone ring off a birf I have that does not couple with the flange I have, and put it on the non abs birf in the truck. I’m guessing good odds. So far this year my PM etc has not been too costly and I’d like to keep it that way if possible. I know that buying the right parts is the way to go etc, my love for this cruiser exceeds my cashflow by a 100x, and I have a mechanic who might be game to help me tear into the wheel. Ideas begetting ideas.

Code 32 btw

 

[mudgudgeon]

Well that makes more sense.

So it sounds like the tone ring is missing.
I have removed tone rings in the past when fitting a birf from an ABS equipped model into a non ABS model. ( I believe there was no need to remove it but was told by the supplier of it wasnt needed due to no ABS, I could remove it.)

I think of you had a tone ring, you could probably fit it to the birf you have.
In my experience the birfs will be the same, and the tone rings are just press fitted.

 

[DesertCruiser80]

Well that makes more sense.

So it sounds like the tone ring is missing.
I have removed tone rings in the past when fitting a birf from an ABS equipped model into a non ABS model. ( I believe there was no need to remove it but was told by the supplier of it wasnt needed due to no ABS, I could remove it.)

I think of you had a tone ring, you could probably fit it to the birf you have.
In my experience the birfs will be the same, and the tone rings are just press fitted.

Just to make sure I understand this correctly:
I have a '92 without ABS. To replace the birfs, I would get a 60070 birf with a 60040 flange. Do I need to remove the ABS ring as I do not have ABS?

Along the same lines, all the 60070 birfs I see are with ABS. Are 60080 birfs simply the same part without the ABS ring?

 

[Osoraku]

Just to make sure I understand this correctly:
I have a '92 without ABS. To replace the birfs, I would get a 60070 birf with a 60040 flange. Do I need to remove the ABS ring as I do not have ABS?

Along the same lines, all the 60070 birfs I see are with ABS. Are 60080 birfs simply the same part without the ABS ring?

I don’t see why the tone ring will need to come off. It should not inhibit or impede.
My belief is that if you have the correct flange for the length of birf you’ve got going, that an abs or non abs birfield will work.

What I found in my wheel, was a short birf with no tone ring and it would not receive one. We tried. The ring was slightly too big (loose) and the step was too narrow. The ring would have protruded past the step it sits on.
It was an earlier birfield that was not equipped with a tone ring.

I had a spare birfield, longer, with tone ring, that I needed the thicker flange for. Now I have a freshly packed DS front wheel, and my abs light is no longer coming on.

Now to do the others.

 

[DesertCruiser80]

@Osoraku Got it, thank you. And do you or anyone know about p/n 43405-60080 compared to 43405-60070? I'll call Cruiser Outfitters first thing Monday as they list both on they're site. FAXT60080JP vs FAXT60070JP

 

[DesertCruiser80]

With the help of the lovely people at Cruiser Outfitters, I learned 43405-60080 is the same as the 60070 minus the ABS tone ring. It was used in non-USA specs. Works for me as I don't have/need/want ABS on my 92. Ordered a pair, plus spindles and hub flanges.

 

[ColoradoBoy]

@DesertCruiser80, just to clarify, you ordered 60080 for your rig? Getting ready to start ordering parts, and the difference between the two is $100...
Cheers!