A new direction...

[chicago]

We should talk Chicago. I am thinking about thinning my herd.

My 40 is already set up with FJ60 axles. (And yes, you do need to outboard the fronts.)

It would benifit from a new drivetrain, for sure. The wheelbase is 99 inches and so there would be enough for the auto trans, but I'm not sure about the doubler. It would be easier to run an Orion or and Atlas with a centered rear.

Let me know if you want to consider this, but honestly if you want a light weight wheeler build a minitruck which is easier, and much cheaper.

Lemme know what youre thinking...
Originally, I was looking at the minis/ 4 runners....
Nothing was happeneing on trades, people that said they wanted to trade, never responded etc.

I do love the minis/ 4 runners, but...Im limited to trading my rig, or selling it. Not much room in between for a 4th rig.

 

[Mace]

You will be looking at a ~ 100+ WB to fit the doubler and an auto, even with the shorter V8.
Can easily be done with leafs as well.

 

[chicago]

You will be looking at a ~ 100+ WB to fit the doubler and an auto, even with the shorter V8.
Can easily be done with leafs as well.

Approx. what length shaft will that leave?
Just out of curosity, how'd you figure that out?

I appreciate it!

K

 

[ColonelMustard]

What the hell you doin here? Dont buy a mini. No one will look at you. Get a 40 then you'll be a stud. See ya on facebook........

 

[chicago]

Here are some pics of my 62 as she sits.

 

[chicago]

What the hell you doin here? Dont buy a mini. No one will look at you. Get a 40 then you'll be a stud. See ya on facebook........

Im taking a NEW DIRECTION with my rig.
I dont have ENOUGH money and time into this one, so I was a different one to put MORE money and time into.

This is one HELL of a past time.

K

 

[Mace]

Approx. what length shaft will that leave?
Just out of curosity, how'd you figure that out?

I appreciate it!

K

SWAG pretty much.

Think of the length of the current cruiser drivetrain the motor is long but the Tranny/tcase is very short. Even with a shorter V8 up front, the length of the tranny/adapter/203/adapter/tcase is gonna be pretty damn long. The 40's rear driveshaft is not all that long at all..

Most WB extensions on 40's move the front wheels about 3 or 4" and the rest is rear movement. So a 100" WB rig has an axle that is moved back by about 6 or 7". You really do not want your rear DS to be much shorter than about 18" (there are acceptions, but that is a reasonable number) I want to say the stock 40 rear DS is about 30" long (or so, someone correct me if I am wrong) so you have less than 20" of extra Drivetrain length to work with. Which goes away fast.....

 

[handcannon]

203 doubler

Thanks for the input.
Since I have the motor trans and t case set up and ready to go (almost...still need the headers, wiring and some misc stuff) Ill try to run that. I was pricing the atlas and orion...OOUCH.
Id LOVE to see pics of that set up since youre offering!
What shifter did you end up running on that set up?
Do you have any pics of the linkages?
Did you use an e fan/ or mech?

Chicago

First, I must apologize for not being more clear. I do not have this driveline in my 40 yet. It was in somebody elses 40, I just bought the 203 doubler and TC from him.

He had a twin stick for the TC and a third stick for the doubler. Sorry, no pics of his setup.
He was using a mechanical fan.

I mocked up the 700R4/doubler/ and TC as best as I could since I do not have the correct shorter output shaft in the tranny yet. The overall length of the combo is 41 1/2" (23 3/8 700R4, 8 3/8 203 doubler, 9 3/4 Toy TC). Measuring from the front of the "F" bellhousing in the stock location back 41 1/2" leaves only about 8" or 9" for the driveshaft if the rear axle is in the stock location. If the SBC is mounted as far forward as reasonable and the rear axle is moved back as far as possible the DS will be about 16 to 18" long. In comparison, the adapter for the 700R4 to the TC is 6 3/4" long, or only 1 5/8" shorter than the 700R4/203 doubler/and TC.

I do have some pics I'll post as soon as I can get my daughter to help me (yes, I'm helpless at computors).

Don

 

[handcannon]

First installment

Stock GM adapter between tranny and TC
First pic is tranny side
Second pic is TC side
Third pic is mockup of all three components. There is a space between tranny and doubler because the output shaft has not been changed to the correct short shaft.

 

[Exiled]

Have you considered bobbing the 62, cutting the roof off, putting a roll cage and tube doors on it? Easier than swapping everything, you get the long wheelbase and a pretty unique truck that's smaller and lighter.

Just a thought...

 

[chicago]

Have you considered bobbing the 62, cutting the roof off, putting a roll cage and tube doors on it? Easier than swapping everything, you get the long wheelbase and a pretty unique truck that's smaller and lighter.

Just a thought...

Hey Exiled,
Ive gotta say, your 60 was one that had inspired me in building mine.
With that said...
YES, I had seriously thought that route out. I was gonna back half it and flat bed the rear with a cage. That would have done EVERYTHING for me (in theory). HOWEVER....the ULTIMATE wrench in the plan, my wife, HAAAAAATED the idea.
But, she was open to me either selling the rig, getting a 40 or can backing the rear cargo area like Tapage and going that route.
Now, you say that would be EASIER than swapping drive train components...Im NOT a body work guy. I CAN do it and do a nice job with it, but its pure TORTURE for me doing BILLIONS of spot welds, burning through, grinding down (but not too much) etc.
Ill take the heavier steel work ANY DAY.
Im doing a chop down on a set of 40 doors right now for a friend, and Im NOT looking forward to doing the rest.

Chicago

 

[handcannon]

Second installment.

First pic, front drive output shaft showing closeness to tranny pan. U-joint will be 1 3/8" closer when tranny and doubler are in correct position.

Second pic, another angle, the front driveshaft should be long enough not to need a double cardon joint unless you go with a real tall lift.

Third pic, another angle of components with 1 3/8" spacer in place.

Sorry for the long delay in getting the rest of the pics, my computor wasn't being nice to me.

 

[Mace]

DS clearance is not really an issue if you go to a 2 piece front Driveshaft.

 

[handcannon]

Third installment

First pic, 1 3/8" space that will be gone when the correct output shaft is installed in the tranny.

Second pic, You do not want to have to try to fit a DC joint in here, this is with the extra 1 3/8" space that has to disappear.

Third pic, another angle of the DC joint.

 

[handcannon]

DS clearance is not really an issue if you go to a 2 piece front Driveshaft.

Mace

I don't expect chicago to have any driveshaft clearance problems as long as he makes sure he has a decent length to his driveshaft (no DC joints). I don't expect any problems with mine when I get to that point since I plan to move the front axle forward. Combine the axle move with the extra length of the 700R4 and I should have lots of length. I added the driveshaft/u-joint pics so chicago and others could see the clearances there.

Since you mentioned 2 piece drive shaft, do you have any pics for future reference for me and others.

Thanks
Don

 

[Mace]

I'll try and dig some up.

 

[chicago]

HOLY CRAP!!!!
That is NO ROOM!
Wouldnt a spring over with c and t require a DC shaft in front?
On my 62, I was able to mantain the stock 11* pinion angle from the factory, and the stock shaft, BUUUUUT I do get vibes when I go over a certain speed in the front. I did turn the steer arms, but left the pinion angle the same.
The rear is a DC shaft.
I hadnt realized that was such a tight fit.

Thanks for posting those up.
Do you have any ideas as to how youre gonna set the linkage up?

 

[handcannon]

HOLY CRAP!!!!
That is NO ROOM!
Wouldnt a spring over with c and t require a DC shaft in front?
On my 62, I was able to mantain the stock 11* pinion angle from the factory, and the stock shaft, BUUUUUT I do get vibes when I go over a certain speed in the front. I did turn the steer arms, but left the pinion angle the same.
The rear is a DC shaft.
I hadnt realized that was such a tight fit.

Thanks for posting those up.
Do you have any ideas as to how youre gonna set the linkage up?

I don't have direct experience yet with this, but from all I've read here (and that has been alot) I'll give you my opinion. If you do a spring over and flip on stock springs (no lift springs), move the axle as far forward as you can, DO NOT do a shackle reversal, and set the axle angle to use a regular u-joint on each end of the DS you'll have the best set up possible to get by without u-joint clearance problems. Also, using an SBC with 700R4 mounted so that you have good fan/rad clearance AND some clearance to the firewall still will push the TC back a bit. This adds length to the DS both at the axle and the TC. This will give you a better chance of being able to do your front DS without a DC u-joint.

Another point you might consider is that my pics assume using the 203 doubler. If you do not go the doubler route you will have to take into consideration that the front output will be an additional 1 5/8" further forward decreasing the already close clearances to the tranny pan. There is one of the venders that posts here that has a special smaller diameter front output flange and u-joint just for this situation (maybe Downey?).

As you already know you WILL NEED the DC u-joint on the rear DS since the length of the drive train is going to move the rear shaft's front u-joint back real close to the stock position of the rear axle. Here you will need to move the rear axle back as far as possible to gain rear DS length.

I'm hoping Mace can find pics and info on the 2 pc front drive shaft he mentioned. I remember a thread about this some time back but not the details. It could be some very helpful info.

Again, I want to make it clear that what I just stated is only my OPINION, not from direct experience. I have been reading and following posts and paying attention to the guys with experience such as Poser, Mark W, Mark H, Mace, etc.

I'm not sure yet how I'll set up the shift linkages. The guy I got this stuff from included the twin stick parts that he got from AA. It has been over a year since I actually saw this set up on his 40 so I'll have to play around with the parts a bit to see if I can remember how he had them. My 40 has a vacuum front shift that is still in good working order and I might try to stay with that unless sombody can give me some strong compelling arguments otherwise.

Don

 

[chicago]

Well, I guess that I (like you) will have to figure these things out when I get to them.
All in all, Im pretty jazzed about the prospects of getting a 40. There IS a mudder who is interested in buying my 62...
That is kind of adding some confusion.
Do I sell my rig and buy a 40 that is similarly built, or do I buy a cheap 40, keep my rig to wheel while I work on the "new" 40.
I have a PM in to a different mudder who was thinking of selling his 40, but I have not head back from him yet....

Thanks for all the great input.
Ill post up what happens for those who are interested, and there will be builds to follow and TON of questions that Ill have along the way. Especially with the Vortec/ 4L60E install. Really looking forward to all this.

Chicago

 

[handcannon]

chicago

Whatever avenues you end up taking I'll be keeping track of how your build goes. I know my ideas of how I wanted my 40 to end up have slowly changed over the years of reading/being here on MUD.

Don