A few last questions before tackling the knuckle rebuild

[overhanger]

I'm writing this for the sake of discussion and not to say I'm right and you are wrong, Mace. If the replacement bearings are the same as the ones being replaced then, other than the new races being set in a little differently than the originals, how can the new bearings affect the shim requirements? The FSM seems to support the thought that bearings don't affect the shims needed.
Bearings - new vs. old. Of course you can reuse existing races with new bearings - they will fit with no problem but wear of the new bearings will be greatly accelerated by the grooves, even minute ones, in the old races. This effect of an old race damaging a new bearing is called brinelling, I think. Whatever, the bottom line is that the new bearing wears out way more quickly than it would have if a new race was installed.
Last thing, I agree with you about wheel bearings being designed to last the lifetime of a Cruiser - IF they have been properly maintained and since most of us came to own our Cruisers after they had been in the "care" of POs, whose to say they have been well maintained?

The shims will differ dependong on the bearings...


The bearing races can work with other bearings. However, most of the time the bearing races have a grove built into them over the years. so the race kind of fails before the bearings do.

I am positive that you will be okay Spook. just Make sure that you put the stock ones back in and measure preload. If you need to make changes then do it on both sides (althoug it is funny, my 40 had no shims on the bottom side.)





you done yet?

 

[Mace]

Bearings are not ever identical, so, when you replace the bearings you are altering the spacing between the upper and lower tops of the bearings. There is no way around it. You shoudl be close to the ideal preload, but it will almost never be perfect (it does happen tho).
That is why wheel bearings have a threaded portion for adjustment, Pinion bearings have either a crush sleeve or shims to adjust preload, as do the carrier bearings.
The Shims are designed to make up for differences in bearing heights..


You are absolutely correct about the new bearings and old races thing. Sometimes it makes a huge difference. It really depends on how bad the old races are. You shoudl always replace the races when doing the bearings, although for a trail fix. The old races will be fine.


I have seen a bunch of poorly maintained front axles. They rarely kill the wheel bearings. Rust is one of the few things that can really kill one but since they are either greased or well lubricated with gear oil they tend to stay alive longer than you would expect.

One of the interesting things about the way these axles wear out. If you ignore the front axle long enough so that the trunion bearings get sloppy they tend to blow out the inner axle seal as a first sign of weakness. Which lets a bunch of axle gear oil (as long as it is properly topped off) into the knuckles.. which leaks all over the inside of the tire and makes a big mess. The upside is that the wheel bearings now have a nice bath of mixed gear oil and grease. Which keeps everything lubed up nicely

 

[Spook50]

Looking forward to the rear discs - keep us posted!

Can't remember - did you change your MC yet?

Yeah I did the 4Runner front brake upgrade, including the 1" bore MC. That'll be swapped out this summer (if I don't deploy) with a GM one when I go hydroboost, though.

 

[overhanger]

I'm no machinist, I don't even know any, but I would imagine that there are tolerances that are to be followed when a bearing manufacturer makes a bearing with a specific part number. Being bearings, I would also think those specs to be extremely tight and that one manufacturer's bearings would be pretty much exactly the same as any others. Is that not the case? Thanks for your input.

Bearings are not ever identical, so, when you replace the bearings you are altering the spacing between the upper and lower tops of the bearings. There is no way around it. You shoudl be close to the ideal preload, but it will almost never be perfect (it does happen tho).
That is why wheel bearings have a threaded portion for adjustment, Pinion bearings have either a crush sleeve or shims to adjust preload, as do the carrier bearings.
The Shims are designed to make up for differences in bearing heights..


You are absolutely correct about the new bearings and old races thing. Sometimes it makes a huge difference. It really depends on how bad the old races are. You shoudl always replace the races when doing the bearings, although for a trail fix. The old races will be fine.


I have seen a bunch of poorly maintained front axles. They rarely kill the wheel bearings. Rust is one of the few things that can really kill one but since they are either greased or well lubricated with gear oil they tend to stay alive longer than you would expect.

One of the interesting things about the way these axles wear out. If you ignore the front axle long enough so that the trunion bearings get sloppy they tend to blow out the inner axle seal as a first sign of weakness. Which lets a bunch of axle gear oil (as long as it is properly topped off) into the knuckles.. which leaks all over the inside of the tire and makes a big mess. The upside is that the wheel bearings now have a nice bath of mixed gear oil and grease. Which keeps everything lubed up nicely

 

[overhanger]

How did you get around the clearance issue, caliper to wheel, when the larger 4Runner calipers were installed?

Yeah I did the 4Runner front brake upgrade, including the 1" bore MC. That'll be swapped out this summer (if I don't deploy) with a GM one when I go hydroboost, though.

 

[Spook50]

How did you get around the clearance issue, caliper to wheel, when the larger 4Runner calipers were installed?

I had to grind down some spots on the caliper. I took a pic a while ago dto send to someone on the list with the areas circled, which reminds me that I still have to circle the areas and send the pic

I also had to cut a portion of the dust shields away (about half an inch from each edge surrounding the caliper), and on one of the pads, there's a wear indicator that needs to be cut away or it'll rub against the hub. Took me a while to catch that one, because when it goes in, it doesn't feel like there are any issues.

 

[overhanger]

Stock wheels, right? I had to grind the stock calipers to fit Rockcrawler 51s and had to have the Weld wheel flanges milled to fit the same stock calipers. Even had to grind the back side of the windows on the 51s to fit them. Both wheels are 3.5" BS. The 4Runner calipers appear to be about 1" wider towards the wheel from the knuckle mounting ears so I haven't even thougt about installing the larger brakes. I've been happy with the 1" MC and well set up stock brakes even with the larger and much heavier Rockcrawler/LTBs on the truck. Locking up all four wheels at speed isn't a problem and crawling speed control is good too.

I had to grind down some spots on the caliper. I took a pic a while ago dto send to someone on the list with the areas circled, which reminds me that I still have to circle the areas and send the pic

I also had to cut a portion of the dust shields away (about half an inch from each edge surrounding the caliper), and on one of the pads, there's a wear indicator that needs to be cut away or it'll rub against the hub. Took me a while to catch that one, because when it goes in, it doesn't feel like there are any issues.

 

[Mace]

I'm no machinist, I don't even know any, but I would imagine that there are tolerances that are to be followed when a bearing manufacturer makes a bearing with a specific part number. Being bearings, I would also think those specs to be extremely tight and that one manufacturer's bearings would be pretty much exactly the same as any others. Is that not the case? Thanks for your input.

You are exactly corect about the tolerances. But getting things "perfect" requires somthing more than a conical bearing.

 

[overhanger]

Okay, things are in perspective now and I'm glad. To me, "perfection" in a Cruiser's trunnion bearing clearances allows for some leeway and negates the need to go to the extra work of obtaining an SST to determine the perfect clearance after replacing trunnion races and bearings and reinstalling the shims that were spacing the caps originally is close enough for me. Having done just that in two FJ62s and being satisfied with the results leads me to believe Spook will be okay doing it that way too. But others might find that method to not necessarily be close enough for them.

You are exactly corect about the tolerances. But getting things "perfect" requires somthing more than a conical bearing.

 

[Mace]

Okay, things are in perspective now and I'm glad. To me, "perfection" in a Cruiser's trunnion bearing clearances allows for some leeway and negates the need to go to the extra work of obtaining an SST to determine the perfect clearance after replacing trunnion races and bearings and reinstalling the shims that were spacing the caps originally is close enough for me. Having done just that in two FJ62s and being satisfied with the results leads me to believe Spook will be okay doing it that way too. But others might find that method to not necessarily be close enough for them.

Perfection is a bit more than I meant, SST's are not required to rebuild a knuckle. But a fish scale is a nice thing to have

Generally, by just using the shims that were in the stock locations you will be very close. Sometimes, they need a bit of help tho (that is why they include the shims to begin with)

 

[cruiser_guy]

I just did a mini truck disc brake swap into my '67 FJ45LV and I have the SST for the knuckle shims. It helps but even with that you're not going to be able to measure 0.10mm which is the thinnest shims available that I know of. Any bearing manufacturing tolerance is certainly less than 0.10mm

 

[hightide]

So just buy high temp tolerance bearing grease and use it for everything?

tractor supply sells big tubs. should i stick to name brand?

Gracias

 

[overhanger]

I think the message is to use the Moly infused grease for everything IF you want to just use one grease. I disagree about using one grease for all applications but some have reported to have had longterm success doing just that and to each his own.

So just buy high temp tolerance bearing grease and use it for everything?

tractor supply sells big tubs. should i stick to name brand?

Gracias

 

[Spook50]

Stock wheels, right? I had to grind the stock calipers to fit Rockcrawler 51s and had to have the Weld wheel flanges milled to fit the same stock calipers. Even had to grind the back side of the windows on the 51s to fit them. Both wheels are 3.5" BS. The 4Runner calipers appear to be about 1" wider towards the wheel from the knuckle mounting ears so I haven't even thougt about installing the larger brakes. I've been happy with the 1" MC and well set up stock brakes even with the larger and much heavier Rockcrawler/LTBs on the truck. Locking up all four wheels at speed isn't a problem and crawling speed control is good too.

Yeah this is with stock wheels. The calipers are close, but with just a little grinding, they'll clear the wheels. They definately fill up the space inside the wheels.