A few last questions before tackling the knuckle rebuild

[Spook50]

In the FSM, it shows a tool needed to set the preload on the knuckle bearings, and then some sort of extension for measuring the preload. What's a good substitute for these tools? I'm not going to bother with the big scribe tool for measuring shim thickness, but I do still want to make sure that the preload is right. Suggestions?

Also, when installing wheel studs onto the new rotors, do they get pressed (driven, pulled, whatev) into the rotor before reattaching it to the wheel hub, installed on just the hub part, or do you install them onto the rotor/hub assembly?

Lastly, I don't think my knuckle rebuild kit has any snap rings for the birfields, so unless they're just hidden in the box somewhere, my birfs will be staying together. What's a good method to getting all the old grease cleaned out before repacking them?

 

[FJ60Cam]

I'll be tackling mine for the first time this weekend, too.

I think you measure the preload with a fish scale.

Can't you just reuse the snap rings?

I usually clean out greasy parts with brake cleaner & mineral spirits. Gas works good too. I spray brake cleaner afterwards to clean off the mineral spirits residue.

 

[meluhha]

...Also, when installing wheel studs onto the new rotors, do they get pressed (driven, pulled, whatev) into the rotor before reattaching it to the wheel hub, installed on just the hub part, or do you install them onto the rotor/hub assembly?...

Use ONLY OEM wheel studs. Trust me on this (Pep Boys has earned my wrath).

Method 1: Support the hell out of the rotor (cause they will crack otherwise) and you can tap the studs into place with a hammer.

Method 2: Use a hyrdaulic press, again make sure it is supported all the way around. This may be the safest way...I didn't go this route.

Method 3: Use the lug nuts and an impact wrench. Insert the studs thru the rotor and use the lugs and wrench to pull the stud into place. This is what I ended up using after much frustration.

Take it slow and if you have to force it too much...this may happen:

By no means am I an expert, but this is how I did it (method 3) and it worked. Someone else who may have more experience can chime in with a better idea!

The Pep Boy studs they gave me were slightly too big and when I tried to force them in (which you should never do) they gave me a new door stopper.

Have fun.
Matt

 

[stinkyfj60]

I used NAPA wheel studs with NO problems. There is NO reason at all to pay the extra for Toyota ones. Take the rotors to a good machine shop and have them pressed in, and check the rotors for trueness while you are there.

 

[Spook50]

I'll be tackling mine for the first time this weekend, too.

I think you measure the preload with a fish scale.

Can't you just reuse the snap rings?

I usually clean out greasy parts with brake cleaner & mineral spirits. Gas works good too. I spray brake cleaner afterwards to clean off the mineral spirits residue.

You're right about the fish scale, however, with the knuckle bearings, I believe you have to be a certain distance out from the knuckle (maybe the end of the steering knuckle arm?) to get an accurate measurement. Too close in and it'll show too much force needed to turn the knuckle; too far out and it'll show too little.

Most snap rings can be reused, but the inner rings in the birfields end up having to break in order to seperate the birf, and those are the ones I don't think I have replacements for.

maluhha, that's exactly why I want to get these wheel studs right the FIRST time. I got a pair of DBA slotted rotors from Boston Mangler a while back, and I DON'T want to break anything. I do have a few new Toyota studs though, just in case some of my old ones aren't reusable. My question though, is if you install the studs whith the rotors and hub bolted together, or with them about (in that case, are they installed onto the hub or the rotor?).

 

[soggy60]

Knuckle Bearings ( top & bottom): When you disassemble, keep the 'shims' together & mark lable which bearing they're from ( top ,bottom, left ,right).
Replace knuckle bearings: use same shims in same place for reassembly.
The shims are more to compensate for manufacturing differences between axles & knuckle housings- yes there is some, but very little, differences between bearings ( if ya stay with same brand).

Do not disassemble birf's unless you have replacement cir-clips.
Can use carb-cleaner(cheap brand) with 'straw' (like WD-40) to clean old crud, q-tips to remove globs, etc. final rinse with brake cleaner.

I'd advise against gasoline as a cleaner , ESPECIALLY if ya smoke

Meluhha's Method 3 is the best for home mechanic that doesn't have a press . . .
(that and I'm not a BFH fan, typically things snap/crack during the BFH treatment...)

 

[Spook50]

Knuckle Bearings ( top & bottom): When you disassemble, keep the 'shims' together & mark lable which bearing they're from ( top ,bottom, left ,right).
Replace knuckle bearings: use same shims in same place for reassembly.
The shims are more to compensate for manufacturing differences between axles & knuckle housings- yes there is some, but very little, differences between bearings ( if ya stay with same brand).

Do not disassemble birf's unless you have replacement cir-clips.
Can use carb-cleaner(cheap brand) with 'straw' (like WD-40) to clean old crud, q-tips to remove globs, etc. final rinse with brake cleaner.

I'd advise against gasoline as a cleaner , ESPECIALLY if ya smoke

Meluhha's Method 3 is the best for home mechanic that doesn't have a press . . .
(that and I'm not a BFH fan, typically things snap/crack during the BFH treatment...)

I'm using new Koyo beraings all around. Is there a reference anywhere (already checked the writeups in tech) that tells which bearing number goes where (as far as top/bottom for the knuckles)? They look the same to me, but there ARE different bearing numbers.

I do have access to a press, so if I can find a good method to support the rotor with the least risk of cracking, I'll use that.

 

[cruiser_guy]

They look the same to me, but there ARE different bearing numbers.

Are you sure?? The knuckle bearings are the same top and bottom unless someone has changed them out, at least I've always used the same ones on my truck and I've got over 300,000 miles on it! You should have roller bearings with a real sharp taper to them to carry the axial load. Sometimes they get replaced erroneously with bearings of a lesser taper.

 

[meluhha]

I used NAPA wheel studs with NO problems. There is NO reason at all to pay the extra for Toyota ones...

It sounds like Napa worked for you...however, I don't think its worth the risk to NOT use OEM. You're taking a chance that the supplier of the {insertautopartstorehere} is "close enough" to the factory that it'll work right.

IIRC I paid less (25% discount from TOD) for the studs at the dealer than I did at PepBoys.

Why risk it?

To each his own...but for my money, I'd rather know its right the first time.

...I got a pair of DBA slotted rotors from Boston Mangler a while back, and I DON'T want to break anything. I do have a few new Toyota studs though, just in case some of my old ones aren't reusable.

Spook-I used the DBA vented rotors and they've been great so far (I also did the caliper upgrade). IMHO I would get ALL new studs. Here's why: you have to hammer them out in the first place as they are "set" in the rotor/hub with teeth. Removing these, again IMHO, might damage said teeth, ergo, not gripping as well as a set of new ones (I said ergo...did I even spell that right?!?!) Which could eventually lead to slipping.

My question though, is if you install the studs whith the rotors and hub bolted together, or with them about (in that case, are they installed onto the hub or the rotor?).

IIRC you install them with the hub on the rotor (I can't remember if I screwed the hub on first or not...anyone?) Once you get them apart it's pretty obvious what you need to do.

Good luck and drink plenty of

Cheers

 

[stinkyfj60]

It sounds like Napa worked for you...however, I don't think its worth the risk to NOT use OEM. You're taking a chance that the supplier of the {insertautopartstorehere} is "close enough" to the factory that it'll work right.

Why risk it?

To each his own...but for my money, I'd rather know its right the first time.

Cheers

Toyota doesnt manufacture their wheel studs, they farm them out too. The NAPA ones I think are Dorman, which is a really good company. They measured exactly the same as factory ones, I will go that route again when I do it on my 4Runner. I am an hour and half drive from the nearest dealership, so for a small part that you can get the exact same quality at a local parts house, I will do that again and again.

 

[Tinker]

Spook -
If I've read the FSM & these links correctly, you need to replace the the races when you replace the knuckle bearings - they're mated. And if you do that, you need to remeasure for the shims since everything will be different than your old ones.

I'm facing this same job, but I've already justified the scribe tool. It'll last forever & is only about $100, IIRC.

 

[Spook50]

Are you sure?? The knuckle bearings are the same top and bottom unless someone has changed them out, at least I've always used the same ones on my truck and I've got over 300,000 miles on it! You should have roller bearings with a real sharp taper to them to carry the axial load. Sometimes they get replaced erroneously with bearings of a lesser taper.

No you're right. The bearings are the same. For some reason, two of them had been put in different boxes (same size boxes, but with different bearing numbers on the labels). All four of my knuckle bearing are the same. Thank God someone double checked before putting my kit together...

meluhha, I ended up reusing all my old studs. I used a hydraulic press to push them out of the hub (which I ended up bolting the new rotors onto the hub before installing the studs) and they slipped out nice and smoothly. To reinstall 'em I had to use the bolt, washers & impact method, which ended up working perfectly too. They're in there good, and my right side hub/rotor assembly is all ready to go. Races driven in evenly and securely and bearings lubed (by hand) with Mobil 1 synthetic grease. The oil seal is a PITA though. I ended up setting an old race on top of it, spanning that with a brass drift and then smacking the middle of the drift with a hammer. I think that's what was done in the DVD too, but I can't remember for sure.

I'm still not even done with the right side yet. The grease and dirt were caked onto the outside of all the parts so heavily and for so long that cleaning took ALL day today once I had everything apart. I'm in no big hurry though, since it gives my calipers a bit more time to dry since I put some black paint on them to help make everything look a little more new. Everything's going smoothly so far though. Once you get into it and keep your head in the game, it's really not that hard at all.

Tinker, from what I understood, you'd only need to remeasure for shims if you install new knuckles. I don't think new bearings and races will affect anything once you get it all torqued down with the original shims. I hope I'm not wrong here, because if I am, I'm kinda screwed...

 

[overhanger]

Spook,
You are on the right track and are correct that it isn't that complicated. You aren't wrong about needing to measure for new shims only if you replace the knuckle itself. Installing new bearings doesn't require different shims. Keep after it and continue taking your time and thinking it through. Good luck.

 

[2mbb]

I rebuilt my knuckles, kept track of the shims and put it all back together with the same knuckles but new bearings, races, etc. No problem yet and it seems good. From what I read, you only need to check the knuckle alignment and knuckle bearing preload if you replace the knuckles or don't know which shims go where. Good luck.

 

[Mace]

The shims will differ dependong on the bearings...


The bearing races can work with other bearings. However, most of the time the bearing races have a grove built into them over the years. so the race kind of fails before the bearings do.

I am positive that you will be okay Spook. just Make sure that you put the stock ones back in and measure preload. If you need to make changes then do it on both sides (althoug it is funny, my 40 had no shims on the bottom side.)





you done yet?

 

[Spook50]

you done yet?

Heh, I wish. I could've kept on working through the night if the auto shop on base didn't cloase at 7:00. I'll be back there when they open tomorrow morning though. Hopefully I'll make some more good progress before I go to work tomorrow night, because I want to do the rear disc conversion on Saturday.

 

[hightide]

hey Spook did you buy two kinds of grease and gear oil or one kind of grease and gear oil. Im confused with all this talk about the diffrent kins of grease, MP and Molly. Which one is it and do you use it on all the components; nuckle bearings, birf, wheel bearings.

Gracias

 

[Spook50]

hey Spook did you buy two kinds of grease and gear oil or one kind of grease and gear oil. Im confused with all this talk about the diffrent kins of grease, MP and Molly. Which one is it and do you use it on all the components; nuckle bearings, birf, wheel bearings.

Gracias

I bought several tubes (and a 1 lb. tub) of Mobil 1 synthetic to cover everything. Someone explained to me in a past thread that most likely when the manual was written, there was a bigger difference between the properties of moly and MP grease, so it was necessary to use two different kinds during a knuckle job. With current lubrication tech, and the mainstream-izing of synthetics, a good synthetic grease will do the complete job.

For gear oil, I use Lucas. It's not a synth (which I'm a big advocate of), but it's very high quality, and due to its lighter color, makes it very easy to see contamination when the gear oil is drained out.

Oh yeah, as it turns out, the right side axle oil seal was toast and my locking hub was full of gear oil when I pulled everything apart. Looks like the left is that way too Though the bearings and races so far have shown ZERO signs of wear.

 

[Tinker]

Looking forward to the rear discs - keep us posted!

Can't remember - did you change your MC yet?

 

[Mace]

Wheel bearings and races almost never go bad. They are very hearty..

The inner axle seals go bad the most often allowing a ton of gear oil to get in to the knuckle. That is the most common reason for weepy knuckles.

I run high temp bearing grease in everythning that needs to be greased. (cept the TRE's) And for Oil, I run the cheapest stuff I can find in the local Pepboys.

Only replaced one pinion race in 20 years and that pinion had a BUNH of miles on it.



Synthetics are really nice oils. But by doing a full fluid change with Syn Oil I would double the worth of my rig