I drive my 80 all the time, it’s never shown any signs of a failing starter. I started yesterday, drove 10 miles and stopped for a coffee. Come out 3-4 minutes later and my LC wouldnt start. Tried tapping on the starter with no success. The starter spins when you turn the key but doesn’t seem to be engaging the fly wheel. I pulled the starter and bench tested it, it spins and the shaft moves out as it would to engage flywheel. Cleaned everything up and threw it back on and it still just spins without engaging
94 1fzfe Starter problems
- Thread starter pjs1193
- Start date
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If the pinion shaft/gear is extending fully/normally, and the teeth on the pinion
gear are not broken, and assuming the starter is mounted correctly, then another thing to check for is broken teeth on the flexplate. But then again you would assume that there would have been some grinding at some point??
If you manually pull out on the pinion gear, is it hard to do that (it should be) and does it want to forcefully snap back in when you let go?
You could remove the cover (door) to the solenoid and check the plunger (to make sure it's intact) along with the condition of the contacts.
Maybe take the starter to a parts store to be rechecked again on their testing machine?? Is it an aftermarket or OEM part, new orrebuilt??
Can you take some photos (starter removed) looking in at the flexplate teeth??
gear are not broken, and assuming the starter is mounted correctly, then another thing to check for is broken teeth on the flexplate. But then again you would assume that there would have been some grinding at some point??
If you manually pull out on the pinion gear, is it hard to do that (it should be) and does it want to forcefully snap back in when you let go?
You could remove the cover (door) to the solenoid and check the plunger (to make sure it's intact) along with the condition of the contacts.
Maybe take the starter to a parts store to be rechecked again on their testing machine?? Is it an aftermarket or OEM part, new orrebuilt??
Can you take some photos (starter removed) looking in at the flexplate teeth??
- Thread starter
- #4
The shaft slowly extends from the unit while the shaft spins fast, while bench testing.
I could pull the shaft out pretty easily. The pinion gear was not fastened to the shaft, meaning I could pull the shaft out with my fingers while the gear stayed in the starter housing. However I could pull on the gear and it would come out of the housing with the shaft.
The tension felt normal relative to the spring within the housing. I opened housing, cleaned contacts and reassembled. There was “stuff” in the housing amongst the contacts and spring, It was white and seemed like ash, I was able to wipe and shake most of it out.
I’m not sure if the starter is OEM, the tag with the part # was completely warn off.
The gear on the pinion do have some beveling on the outter edge of the teeth with maybe I slight nick here and there but I was surprised on the clean appearance of the starter after I removed it.
I’ve ordered an OEM through my local dealer, which will arrive on Tuesday. I figured I’d get the old unit out. Once it was out I decided to bench test it. When the starter seemly performed as it should I cleaned it up and reinstalled. I’m concerned it may not be my starter?
- Thread starter
- #5
I was surprised on the cleanliness of the starter gears and mounting surface. I did find a dry substance within the housing amongst the contacts.
The teeth on the starter gears are all there, but do have beveling on them. The beveling is pretty uniform so I’m assuming that’s part of the design.
I didn’t look into the flywheel to check for missing teeth but my gloved fingers felt around and everything seemed kosher. But say there were missing/broken teeth on flywheel, would it eventually spin to a point where there were teeth and make some contact? * after not starting I pushed the truck to the far side of the parking lot, pushed it in reverse etc… eventually it was flatbedded to my house.
The pinion gear is exposed and connected to a shaft (normally retracted) and both should shoot out quickly the instant the starter is energized.
If there is any slack in or between the pinion gear and shaft then something like a broken spring or pinion shaft could account for that, either may explain what symptoms you're 80 is having.
Here's a couple of photos showing the clutch drive assembly with the pinion shaft and gear:
Top photo shows the pinion gear removed from the pinion shaft (normally
all those parts are held tightly together):
Bottom photo shows the shaft removed. Note the return spring around the shaft and the shorter spring at the base of the pinion gear:
If there is any slack in or between the pinion gear and shaft then something like a broken spring or pinion shaft could account for that, either may explain what symptoms you're 80 is having.
Here's a couple of photos showing the clutch drive assembly with the pinion shaft and gear:
Top photo shows the pinion gear removed from the pinion shaft (normally
all those parts are held tightly together):
Bottom photo shows the shaft removed. Note the return spring around the shaft and the shorter spring at the base of the pinion gear:
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- Thread starter
- #7
Thank you. I think you’ve solved my issue. My shaft and gear are not locked together. I didn’t and won’t try it, but I’m sure I could hold the gear in my fingers while it’s in the housing and jump the starter and the shaft would extend while spinning. While I had the starter out, I did notice a locking ring spacer? Which was wobbly on the crooked on the end of the shaft and hung off the shaft by 1/8 inch.
- Thread starter
- #9
Thanks, I’ll take some pictures of the old unit tomorrow when I take it back out. I think the problem is pretty clear now that I better understand it.
It also appears mine isn’t oem based off the pictures you’ve posted and diagrams of the oem unit. I look forward to replacing with an oem starter when it arrives.
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- Thread starter
- #12
After taking the old unit back out, the beveling doesn’t seem as uniform as I remembered.
Notice the picture of me pulling the shaft with my fingers, this took a decent effort to pull while keeping grip and the shaft would snap back. The splines look great and the ring I’m pinching is the “locking spacer” I was trying to reference the other day.
Notice the picture of me pulling the shaft with my fingers, this took a decent effort to pull while keeping grip and the shaft would snap back. The splines look great and the ring I’m pinching is the “locking spacer” I was trying to reference the other day.
The shaft and pinion gear should come out together. The fact that it is difficult to pull out the pinion shaft indicates that the long return spring in the photos above is intact. That spring is compressed when the shaft shoots out when the solenoid is energized (or is pulled out manually) and that tension returns the shaft to it's resting position when you release the ignition key (or let go with your fingers).
The fact that the pinion gear does not come out with the shaft seems to indicate IMO that the short spring located just behind the pinion gear is likely broken/missing.
The damage to the pinion gear teeth is from the flexplate teeth striking the floppy pinion gear and kicking it back.
Better to buy a new starter but FWIW the clutch drive assembly is still available.
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The fact that the pinion gear does not come out with the shaft seems to indicate IMO that the short spring located just behind the pinion gear is likely broken/missing.
The damage to the pinion gear teeth is from the flexplate teeth striking the floppy pinion gear and kicking it back.
Better to buy a new starter but FWIW the clutch drive assembly is still available.
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- Thread starter
- #14
Thanks for everyone’s help! I picked up an oem unit from Toyota on my way home tonight. Put it in and the truck cranks and starts better than ever!
Side note, I was at the parts desk at Toyota, guy brings me the part in the oem toyota/Lexus part box. Taped up and all. I pass him the core and turn to leave when he tells me they need to keep the box?? So I had to unbox the starter and carry it out bare. Not a big deal but I thought it was odd. I would’ve kept the box too!
*remanned starter at dealer was $246. That was after the core return. I see oem units for sale all over for less, but I was in time crunch and had no choice*
Side note, I was at the parts desk at Toyota, guy brings me the part in the oem toyota/Lexus part box. Taped up and all. I pass him the core and turn to leave when he tells me they need to keep the box?? So I had to unbox the starter and carry it out bare. Not a big deal but I thought it was odd. I would’ve kept the box too!
*remanned starter at dealer was $246. That was after the core return. I see oem units for sale all over for less, but I was in time crunch and had no choice*
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I guess I’m that guy
Malleus
Far west of Siegen
That is a reman starter, probably by the PO. The tell is the screws holding the solenoid onto the starter flange. Denso parts are (extremely soft) round head JIS cross point, not the hex head screws in there now. It would be a good idea, before it gets too many miles on it, to replace them with standard, metric socket head cap screws. Same for the screws holding the starter motor brush cap on (other end). Once these go through a couple of heat/cool cycles, they are almost impossible to remove, meaning you can't replace the brushes or solenoid yourself, saving hundreds of dollars.
