ntsqd
technerd
IF (big word) I understand the situation correctly a 3mm thick "Backing Plate Eliminator" between the caliper bracket and the seal will position the caliper in the correct location.
Builds 86 Xtra Cab Build (4Wheelunderground 3 link front, 4 link rear and 3.4 swap) (8 Viewers)
- Thread starter aztoyman
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- Thread starter
- #642
That's what I put in there and it's "almost" perfectly centered. I didn't measure the gap. I did measure the spacer and it's slightly thicker than 3mm. I can measure more closely later today when I get out to the garage.
It seems that the bracket could be thicker with the spacer built in and the ears milled. You would know more than I if you design this stuff.
It seems that the bracket could be thicker with the spacer built in and the ears milled. You would know more than I if you design this stuff.
ntsqd
technerd
That would work, or just include a 3mm thick spacer in the kit. The spacer could be a water-jet, laser, or plasma cut part and not cost much. 3mm is .118" so the spacer could be from .125" stock and it should work fine. .007" offset there isn't going to hurt anything.
Flip side is .125" thicker bracket stock would keep the inventory of different thickness' down and since they're threading those holes the plates are in a machine tool of some sort already. Taking a pass on the mounting ears shouldn't add too much machine time.
Flip side is .125" thicker bracket stock would keep the inventory of different thickness' down and since they're threading those holes the plates are in a machine tool of some sort already. Taking a pass on the mounting ears shouldn't add too much machine time.
- Thread starter
- #644
The supplied bolts could be a little longer with the spacer in place but, they are still long enough as is.
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- Thread starter
- #645
I messed with this some more today. The backing plate eliminator that can easily be bought or included with the bracket is 3.5 mm thick and gets the caliper so close to center I think it's good to go.
Just for the heck of it I milled it down to 3mm. That's only taking off .020" from what it was. I can't tell a difference without using mics.
So just stick a backing plate eliminator in and be done with it if you're using the 2010 - up 4Runner brakes with this particular bracket anyway.
Just for the heck of it I milled it down to 3mm. That's only taking off .020" from what it was. I can't tell a difference without using mics.
So just stick a backing plate eliminator in and be done with it if you're using the 2010 - up 4Runner brakes with this particular bracket anyway.
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- Thread starter
- #646
Now here's where I'm not liking this big brake swap. The calipers don't fit with my wheels. 17x8 steel, 3.5" BS.
So since I bought and paid for this stuff I'm committed. I'll make it work but the calipers will not be a stock replacement bolt on deal. Well, without grinding for clearance. Or running a wheel spacer which this mod is supposed to eliminate.
Here's what it took to fit.
So since I bought and paid for this stuff I'm committed. I'll make it work but the calipers will not be a stock replacement bolt on deal. Well, without grinding for clearance. Or running a wheel spacer which this mod is supposed to eliminate.
Here's what it took to fit.
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- Thread starter
- #647
I still have my T100 brakes. The Taco swap really isn't a power upgrade vs the T100 but it WOULD give me a slip on rotor and eliminate the need for the wheel spacers. Maybe I'll try scrounging the parts for that??
I'll think about it while I continue on with my suspension.
I'll think about it while I continue on with my suspension.
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- Thread starter
- #648
I removed my 11.5" T100 rotors from my 85 hubs just to check things out. No way these rotors will ever be a slip fit over even turned down hubs. Even the center bore is too small. I just wanted to look.
These big 14 WA calipers have 48mm pistons and the rotors are 13.3"
The T100 calipers I was running have 45mm pistons with 11.5" rotors. The Taco pistons are smaller.
The Tundra 13WL calipers have 45.4mm pistons with a 12.5" rotor.
The FJ Cruiser 13WG calipers also have 45.4 mm pistons with a 12.5" rotor. But, this works out better for me. My wife has an FJC and it's about time for brakes. Looks like she's getting some new brakes and I'll be taking her cores. I can see how they will fit up in my application and have a backup set of brakes. Hopefully ones that will bolt on without needing grinding or wheel spacers.
Anyway, that's the plan and now I'll get back to getting this front axle under the truck with or without brakes. I want to set the front down on it's own weight so I have something to reference as I get working on the rear.
These big 14 WA calipers have 48mm pistons and the rotors are 13.3"
The T100 calipers I was running have 45mm pistons with 11.5" rotors. The Taco pistons are smaller.
The Tundra 13WL calipers have 45.4mm pistons with a 12.5" rotor.
The FJ Cruiser 13WG calipers also have 45.4 mm pistons with a 12.5" rotor. But, this works out better for me. My wife has an FJC and it's about time for brakes. Looks like she's getting some new brakes and I'll be taking her cores. I can see how they will fit up in my application and have a backup set of brakes. Hopefully ones that will bolt on without needing grinding or wheel spacers.
Anyway, that's the plan and now I'll get back to getting this front axle under the truck with or without brakes. I want to set the front down on it's own weight so I have something to reference as I get working on the rear.
I get the whole off the shelf factory fit ideal... but the caliper isnt exactly a "high wear" item in my eyes... easily a 10-15+ year component if not longer.... especially if the truck isnt daily driver 15k miles a year.
You could possibly gain 1/8" in the wheel clearance department if you didnt use the backing plate eliminator and took the clearance out of the rotor slot in the caliper. Or split the difference and take 1.5mm off the caliper ear and 1.5mm off the caliper rotor slot and pick up 1/16th at the wheel.
Just another way of looking at it...
You could possibly gain 1/8" in the wheel clearance department if you didnt use the backing plate eliminator and took the clearance out of the rotor slot in the caliper. Or split the difference and take 1.5mm off the caliper ear and 1.5mm off the caliper rotor slot and pick up 1/16th at the wheel.
Just another way of looking at it...
- Thread starter
- #650
You're absolutely right about a few ways to approach this. The casting is really uneven. I couldn't accurately measure the gap to see if it's centered. So I could have cut back the slot. I might be trying a different bracket too.
And yes this will last for years so I'm going to make it work. When ever I do need to replace it, it won't be a big deal if I am close to home. Now if I'm on a week or two out of state trip I will be wishing I could just hit a parts store up and bolt them on.
Since this is on the bench and I like to tinker so much. I may as well try some things out. I like to hear other points of view as well so thanks and keep the suggestions coming. Looks like you're a real machinist and ntsqd is an engineer. gnob and Broski are seasoned Toyota builders and wheel their stuff hard so I have had some great input. So thanks to all.
And yes this will last for years so I'm going to make it work. When ever I do need to replace it, it won't be a big deal if I am close to home. Now if I'm on a week or two out of state trip I will be wishing I could just hit a parts store up and bolt them on.
Since this is on the bench and I like to tinker so much. I may as well try some things out. I like to hear other points of view as well so thanks and keep the suggestions coming. Looks like you're a real machinist and ntsqd is an engineer. gnob and Broski are seasoned Toyota builders and wheel their stuff hard so I have had some great input. So thanks to all.
ntsqd
technerd
My concern isn't the normal service replacement needing to modify wear parts to make it work, again.
It is the field failure. What do you do when you can get the replacement part, but don't have to tools needed to modify the part where-ever it is that it left you when it failed?
As a former (reformed?) brake designer I cringe when ever I see someone grind on a caliper. The shape of the caliper body isn't an accident, and metal is expensive - even at the much smaller production volumes of the aftermarket. With a cast cast body like that, if it didn't need to be there it wouldn't be. Assuming long enough wheel studs (a real problem with Toyota 4WD's) a shim spacer to create the needed clearance is the better option.
It is the field failure. What do you do when you can get the replacement part, but don't have to tools needed to modify the part where-ever it is that it left you when it failed?
As a former (reformed?) brake designer I cringe when ever I see someone grind on a caliper. The shape of the caliper body isn't an accident, and metal is expensive - even at the much smaller production volumes of the aftermarket. With a cast cast body like that, if it didn't need to be there it wouldn't be. Assuming long enough wheel studs (a real problem with Toyota 4WD's) a shim spacer to create the needed clearance is the better option.
- Thread starter
- #653
Gracias mi amigo
- Thread starter
- #655
I was able to get a few things done today. I ran into a problem with the passenger side axle though. I noticed that I could barely get the spindle on. There was zero endplay. Actually less. I noticed that the brass spindle bushing looked beat and discolored on the axle in my 88 so it seems I've been running it tight for many years. I'm surprised I didn't break something.
So I left the gasket off and snugged the spindle bolts up until I had no endplay. There was a .035" gap before the spindle touched the knuckle. Yikes
The inner axle is butting against the cross in the differential. I had switched to a 4 pinion V6 diff at some point.
I chucked the spindle in the lathe and just did a tru-up cut on the face of the brass bushing. Then I held the end of the inner axle against the fence on my belt sander and ground the end down until I had a bit of end play on the birf. It feels normal again.
I'm going to continue a little more "research" on fitting the big calipers and rotors
Ultimately I think I'm going to donate them to the Wife's FJ Cruiser. They're supposed to be a direct bolt on with the 17" wheels she has. I'll have to see.
So I left the gasket off and snugged the spindle bolts up until I had no endplay. There was a .035" gap before the spindle touched the knuckle. Yikes
The inner axle is butting against the cross in the differential. I had switched to a 4 pinion V6 diff at some point.
I chucked the spindle in the lathe and just did a tru-up cut on the face of the brass bushing. Then I held the end of the inner axle against the fence on my belt sander and ground the end down until I had a bit of end play on the birf. It feels normal again.
I'm going to continue a little more "research" on fitting the big calipers and rotors
Ultimately I think I'm going to donate them to the Wife's FJ Cruiser. They're supposed to be a direct bolt on with the 17" wheels she has. I'll have to see.
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Damn that looks expensive
- Thread starter
- #657
The 4WU link brackets definitely are. The rest is a OEM 85 Toyota axle housing. Well I guess it is if you add all the upgrades on or in it. 
ntsqd
technerd
Looks really cool!
- Thread starter
- #659
I forgot to mention that I'm trying out a Lube Locker differential gasket. Even though it has an aluminum core I was able to trim it up a little with a razor knife. The slot has been enlarged for the ring gear.
- Thread starter
- #660
I rigged up a quick toe setting tool and set toe @ 1/16". I got the axle off the bench and under the truck. Rechecked steering stops and put the coil springs on.
My garage is really cramped right now. I'd be embarrassed if any of yous guys saw it right now. Tomorrow I hope to get reorganized and set the truck down on the front tires. All I have is my 35's on 15" rims so gotta pull the calipers.
My garage is really cramped right now. I'd be embarrassed if any of yous guys saw it right now. Tomorrow I hope to get reorganized and set the truck down on the front tires. All I have is my 35's on 15" rims so gotta pull the calipers.
