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'86-'95 1st Generation IFS lift/upgrade Options

Discussion in '95-older Toyota Truck Tech' started by Bear80, Feb 26, 2007.

  1. Bear80

    Bear80

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    Anyone who runs any type of lift or "upgrade" to the fist generation IFS please share it with us here. This also applies to newer overseas Hilux trucks that use the same double a-arm torsion bar suspension. Please add why you made your choice and if you like or dislike it and possibly cost. As much as the SAS IMO is an "upgrade" please keep responses to ones that apply to IFS. :cheers:
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2007
  2. Bear80

    Bear80

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    I'll begin with mine.

    Full Rig Details: https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=168936

    '86 pickup, Rancho angled upper a-arms, OME 23.4mm torsion bars, low profile upper arm bump stops, 1.25" ball joint spacers, machined upper ball joints, custom shock mounts, 8" travel shocks, machined and modified Downey slip yoke axles, Rancho center steering link, "555" japan made larger pitman and tie rod ends, idler arm gusset, and longer brake lines.

    12" of wheel travel, stop to stop. Adjusted to a conservative 3" of lift. Currently running 31x12.50 xterrains, have run 33x12.50 and plan to run 35x12.50 tires.

    [​IMG]

    The only down fall about this setup is the same with any other torsion bar setup. Depending on how much lift I adjust the torsion bars for, I lose some ease of upward wheel compression. Set at 4.5" of lift I had very poor compression yet it woud still fully compress when the front was loaded. I have found that set at 3" of lift with aprox. 1" more compression over drop, has yielded the best compromise between wheel travel on the trail and handeling on the street.

    I like this setup becuase it now has 12" of wheel travel, handles much better on the street, and keeps the stock track width. In keeping the stock track width however, I'm leary of the outter birfield joints and tie rod ends. So far with moderate to hard 'wheeling over the course of one year neither have shown any problems. The whole cost of this has been lost track of. The Rancho and Downey parts are discontinued but at new ran around $800. I'd estimate that I have about $400 in it so far, which includes the price I paided for the parts used.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2007
  3. Bear80

    Bear80

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    Previously I ran a nearly stock setup with the addition of 25mm sway-a-way torsion bars and "ultra low" profile upper arm stops. I adjusted the t-bars to give about 2" of lift. I found this to work fairly well but could never get the front to fully compress, even under full load. I figured I lost at least 2" of compression on the trail and only gained 1" of drop. However, I didn't notice the loss of front compression to increase the frequency of the rear axle having to compensate, ie. it didn't seem to lift a rear tire more than it did before. The most compression that the larger t-bars would allow for was having the lower arm inline with the center truss. A stock setup allows for the lower arm to compress past the center truss line. But the larger t-bars on-road were a much welcomed improvement and running 32x12.50 tires I was very happy with the setup. The whole cost of this was less than $150. Latter I added graphite injected poly a-arm bushings (which I still run) to replace the stock binding rubber bushing and added an idler arm gusset(which I also still run) for an additional $60.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2007
  4. Bear80

    Bear80

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    I'll try and answer some questions about my setup.

    It is not that involved to achieve the same setup that I run. Given Rancho no longer supplies their lift with angled arms, there are still plenty of trucks running around with it. I watched 3 Rancho kits go up for sale over on the yotatech forum in the last few months, infact Tracker here just bought a truck with the lift on it.

    The Rancho lift is the key part of the setup. All that needs to be deleted from the full Rancho lift is the center truss that lowers the diff. Complete, the lift should include the following: Angled upper arms, new arm mounts, 3 shims per side, all hardware originally supplied, center steering link, mounts for a universal steering dampener, and the tie rod adjusting sleves with lock nuts.

    What needs to be sourced on your own:
    **NEW INNER CV JOINT** -- Porsche CV joints are the very best choice and now Downey carries a kit to convert to them with stock outters, but pricey.
    Old Man Emu torsion bars(anything thicker will severely limit ease of upward wheel travel), low profile upper a-arm stops, 1.5" ball joint spacers, longer brake lines, new shock mounts for 8" travel shocks (for simplicity Downey makes a fine set)

    What should also be added:
    Harder graphite ployurethane bushings for the Rancho arms (holds alignment MUCH better), idler arm gusset, Downey machined upper ball joints (I have them but others have run without them)

    Also for the axles, Downey might still carry some of the older slipe yoke u-joints style that I run. HOWEVER, if these axles are used, the u-joint mounts will need to be modified for clearance due to the added drop of the ball joint spacers. They also should have extra copies of the installation instructions, if anyone buys this kit second hand.

    *Also be prepaired to tweak things, mainly lift hight and alignment several times before it's all said and done. Lift should also not be adjusted more than 3" over stock.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2007
  5. 4RUNNY

    4RUNNY

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    Since September I have been running 1.5" ball joint spacers up front with stock torsion bars at their stock setting. I have a set of 26mm Downey bars that I have decided not to install due to all of the negative aspects that have been discussed (articulation), PM me if you want them ($80). I'm sure they would improve some aspects of on road driving. I also run Bilstien shocks, Mile Marker hubs, and the origional bump stop heights. I have lowered the front differential down approximately .75" to protect my CV's and I lowered the sway bar down 1". I have been pretty pleased with this setup, not that I have much experience. It is a little too loose on road. I've worked it pretty hard at times and nothing has broken yet so I'm pleased in this area. I run 33x12.5 inch tires on 15x8" wagon wheels that rub a bit under full articulation and steer but I try to avoid this. That's about it.

    Brian
     
  6. tntoyota

    tntoyota

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    How did you lower the diff?

    PLEASE...............lots of pic's and detail, I want this thread to look like a catalogue!

    I'll be adding pic's soon of my yuck 4" trailMyser "Lower-2-lift" suspension just for context.

    close to Tennissee?
     
  7. tntoyota

    tntoyota

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  8. norcalsvx

    norcalsvx

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    i run bj spacers, OME torsions, low pro bumps with dual shocks works good for me-

    [​IMG]
     
  9. Bear80

    Bear80

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    who's shock hoops are you using? I'm thinking of trying a double shock setup up front.
     
  10. H8PVMNT

    H8PVMNT

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    Emu

    Ive fooled around with a few IFS setups, none of which was very extreme. Basically just better torsion bars with low profile bump stops, heim joint steering and some nice shocks. I swapped to a solid axle using my old rear emu springs up front because I got sick of breaking CVs on my truck. The heim joint steering with high misalignment spacers on my truck was definetly a good upgrade and worth the trouble. I also remember breaking a couple of center links ect.

    We recently set up a 4runner for my wife using some Downey torsion bars, bump stops and idler gusset and a complete Old Man Emu setup. I also added some polyurethane sway bar bushings. My wife mainly likes fire roading but we wanted a sleeper/crawler as well so we put in a detroit locker with 488s. All my buddies were pissed because she could spank them on the trail every time in her mom wagon with skinny 33s and stock wheels, it was really fun.

    I must say after all the screwing around with my truck's IFS, the Emu suspension is vastly superior in ride and handling to anything I came up with on my own. The lift isn't much, and the wheel travel isn't massive, but everything is very healthy and you can absolutely bomb rough fire road terrain with total dead but hooked to the road ride and handling. If you install lockers, the lack of travel isn't a big deal on most trails anyway.
    If you want 3 feet of front articulation, swap to a solid axle. Long travel setups would be fun to play with, but for me the durability of a solid axle or fairly stock IFS setup like the Old Man Emu seems to work better for the kind of wheeling I do.



    This is in no way meant as a dig on you guys with sweet long drooping IFS, this is just my take on IFS mods based on my own experiences. Wheel On!!


    Hi guys, just wanted to update my opinion... I still love the emu stuff, but after looking over all your pics I decided to try the 1.5" ball joint spacers with some left over 10" stroke monotubes I had for an '86 I got from my brother in law. I am trying the emu torsion bars as they seem to be the softest aftermarket bars. I'm using the F-250 shock towers welded to some plates that bolt on top of the cast upper control arm pivots. I could have bent hoops, but at $15 each I've always wanted to use the F-250 shock towers for something, and they are very compact which is good.
    I'm getting back my old heim joint steering and still debating on low profile bump stops. I maybe have about 1" of lift because I set the torsion bars pretty low to get lots of downtravel. I beleive that this is the benefit of the spacers; less crank, more travel, softer ride! I will be using this truck an expedition vehicle for reaching remote tracts of land that I have to photo for appraisal work. I'll pound on this setup and let you know what happens.

    Does anyone make a really soft foam type bump stop that I coud use for the compresion bumpers? I'd like to avoid that thump on compresion. Maybe something scavenged of an IFS chevy?
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2007
  11. norcalsvx

    norcalsvx

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    i use the downey kit with the billys
     
  12. extremetoy1

    extremetoy1

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    I run the same "Hybrid" Downey/Rancho kit- I ran it on my 88 3.0 and I run the same kit on my 92 3.0, its a great kit if you dont off road aggresivley or run larger than a 31 inch tire (I am not about to start arguing about it)

    I have broke it no less than 5 times (shafts- until Downey upgraded those) and one left drive flange now the right one (at flatnasty, Lunyou was a witness to how "easily" it broke) they can take some abuse but seriuosly if you run a larger than 31 with any type of traction adding device (I run a true trac up front) you will break parts.

    I put this kit on because of the high travel it has (13" with bilstiens and shock towers) but it is going to the for sale section once I finish gathering all the components for my solid axle swap, FWIW:D
     
  13. Bear80

    Bear80

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    To reiterate what extremetoy1 just said, do not expect this kit to be a licence to hammer harder on the trail. I know I said I plan to run 35's but I actually came to my self and bought some 33s. I also would NOT use the slip yoke axles again, go with the Porsche joints and be done with it. If the slip yokes are used, make sure they are the post '99 axles. Also if to copy the use of BJ spacer the ujoints in the slip yoke axles will need to be modified. Also I had thought about a locker up front but with such steep cv angles I'm keeping it open. Oh and you might brake the diff axle flange if you're really hard on it :grinpimp:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  14. ms018kmf

    ms018kmf

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    I am gathering up the parts I need for the total Chaos Gen 2 front suspension. I don't have any good photos of my beast yet (94 truck). I should have the idler arm and uniballs inside of a week, they will go in immediately. The rest of the parts are going to be rounded up together for a single install (to do all the welding at once). I am going to try and fit a T100 axle in the rear to offset the wider front end. The Chaos Deaver spring kit will go in the rear end. The truck competes with my daily driver for parts money so I may not finish until this summer. I expect the total cost to run about 3500$+ by the end (coilovers, unepected costs, ext.). Not cheap but I have been craving this setup for almost 2 years, I am completely commited! This does not mean I am going to beat the truck into the ground, I just like to build things overkill on the cautious side. And yes I am new here (hello everyone).
     
  15. Bear80

    Bear80

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    welcome, :flipoff2: we will be looking forward to see the finished product!
     
  16. ms018kmf

    ms018kmf

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    Thank you, feeling right at home! I just sold my new Corrola so I should have some parts money soon (wana pay off cards first). My daily driver needed ball joints & seals this week so I'm a little behind schuedule (I won't even mention what it is, oh the shame...).
     
  17. LoveHotHonda

    LoveHotHonda

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    I used to. But I replaced them after a year.
    _____________________________
    Honda 07 Ridgeline - Get the Honda 07 Ridgeline Catalog by Honda Motors
     
  18. Odyseuss

    Odyseuss SILVER Star

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    I have an 88 4runner with 33x1050r15
    Suspension wise I am running the 1.5" bj spacers, stock t-bars, low profile lower bump stop, stock shaved upper bump stops, sway bar disconnects, new toyota ball joints, reinforced lower shock mounts and energy suspension lower control arm bushings.
    I used the 26 mm t-bars for a while and they were alright while pounding desert roads at high speed and on the freeway but they did not flex while rock crawling. The high speed driving had enough inertia to overcome the spring rate but the rock crawling does not. I did manage to tear both of my rear t-bar adjuster plates on the frame.( this was with about 1.5" height above stock) I reinforced the frame plates with 1/4 plate and have since switched back to stock t-bars for the softer ride. It has much more body roll now but it flexes better.
    I have the downey idler arm gusset and a toyota idler arm that I replace the bushings in on a yearly basis. I have added a grease fitting to help lube the bushings for longer life but to no avail the bushing wear out like socks. I'm not really impressed with any of the aftermarket idler arms though I have thought about using the total chaos one. I wouldn't mind spending the dough if I knew it was going to last but I am hesitant to find out.

    What have you guyz been running for idler arm that has been taking abuse and punishment without complaint?
    CM07 239.jpg
     
  19. Bear80

    Bear80

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    You broke this too? Nice, I thougth I was the only one, usally guys snap the splines at the front arm anchor.
    [​IMG]

    Seems these brass bushings are the new rage, I might give them a try. I've been just chaning the bushings once a year.

    http://www.custommachiningusa.com/Specialty_Items.html
     
  20. H8PVMNT

    H8PVMNT

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    I used tie rods with sperical rod ends, and that seemed easier on the other parts. They were from a company called Baja Racing Products, which I'm not sure is still in business. I think it would be easy to make with all the parts available today. They had those high misalignment spacers on them, with chromoly tube for the tie rods. Before that I snaped a couple of center links and ate up idler arms all the time., even with the idler gusset.
    I once ripped the front diff mount off the cross member so the front housing would tourque up and smack into the oil pan when you gassed it. This happened while going up an 18" step on a double whammy type obstacal on a man made trials course. The truck had a front locker and 5.29s. We built a new cross member out of .25 wall square tube with an extra strong mount for the front housing. It's on another truck with the same setup now and still hasn't broke. Has anyone else ever broke this part?