80 Series Transmission Woes- Solenoid stuck or worse?

[ZigZagZero]

Hello all,

My 97 LX has developed a problem when taking off from a stop. If I’m not gentle on the throttle at takeoff it feels like the truck goes back into neutral (revs go up, feels like the gear disengages) and then bumps hard into second.

When I’m gentle it shifts smooth. I’ve replicated the problem even by shifting manually and it feels like 1st slips if I go up on the revs. Not abnormally high mind you, like normal throttle to get out into traffic.

I’ve read many threads and it seems to point to solenoids, but a lot of people seem to feel like they’re starting in 3rd? I have no code as far as OD flashing or anything and not sure that it would with OBD 2.

I’m prepared to replace all 4 solenoids but I’d like to hear if any experts think it’s something worse?

Thanks!

 

[Kernal]

Try to answer all of these questions:


Is the transmission the original?

How many miles on the transmission?

Have you serviced the transmission recently (before this started) ie: drain and fill ATF?

Have you checked the fluid level?

What type/brand of ATF are you using?

Have you added any additives to the transmission?

Do you hear any noises: grinding, screeching?

Does it occur in both forward and reverse?

Has any work been performed on the engine (throttle body, valve cover gasket,---) or front axle before this problem started?

 

[ZigZagZero]

Try to answer all of these questions:


Is the transmission the original?

How many miles on the transmission?

Have you serviced the transmission recently (before this started) ie: drain and fill ATF?

Have you checked the fluid level?

What type/brand of ATF are you using?

Have you added any additives to the transmission?

Do you hear any noises: grinding, screeching?

Does it occur in both forward and reverse?

Has any work been performed on the engine (throttle body, valve cover gasket,---) or front axle before this problem started?

Original transmission at 288k miles. Fluid level is maybe a touch high checked while idling at temp…
Drain and fill done 500 miles ago with new filter and Idemitsu ATF (TLS LV I believe). No additives. No grinding or screeching, reverse is fine. I did recently install a used double carden TW drive shaft, but the u joints were bad and noisy so I swapped the stock one back on until I could rebuild it. Took it for a 20 mile cruise and it drove just fine.

 

[Kernal]

How many quarts of ATF did you replace?

I couldn't find anything that indicates the TLS LV ATF is backwards compatible with the DEXRON II/III fluid, but then you don't seem to be sure which fluid you used??

If you did use the TLS LV ATF it appears it may not be the correct fluid for your transmission.

IME (and others) the A343F transmission is somewhat sensitive to which fluid is installed (it should be DEXRON II/III baclwards compatible)

First thing you might want to do is determine exactly which ATF you used and then contact the manufacturer (not the retailer who sold it) that makes the IDEMITSU ATF to ask if what you installed is fully compatible (backwards compatible) with a 1997 FZJ80 Toyota Land Cruiser with the A343F transmission that calls for a DEXRON II/III ATF.

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Either way, before you replace solenoids first thing IMHO is to perform a complete fluid exchange (not just a drain and fill) to remove all the ATF that's in there and replace it with a DEXRON II/III compatible fluid. If you're doing the work yourself search for "Rodney Flush" on this forum and on you tube.

Valvoline MaxLife Synthetic ATF and Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF are known to be compatible with the A343F transmission but whichever fluid you choose double check first with the manufacturer of that ATF if it's correct for your vehicle (DEXRON II/III compatible).

 

[ZigZagZero]

I couldn't find anything that says that that the TLS LV ATF is backwards compatible with the DEXRON II/III fluid, but then you don't seem to be sure which fluid you used??

If you did use the TLS LV ATF it's a WS (World Standard) ATF and AFAIK is not the correct fluid for your transmission.

IME (and others) the A343F transmission is somewhat sensitive to which fluid is installed (should be DEXRON II/III compatible)

First thing you might want to do is determine exactly which ATF you used and then contact the company that makes the IDEMITSU ATF to ask if what you installed is fully compatible (backwards compatible) with a 1997 FZJ80 Toyota Land Cruiser with the A343F transmission that calls for a DEXRON II/III ATF.

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Who did the work on your transmission and what exactly was done ie: a complete fluid exchange or just a drain and refill, any cleaners or conditioners used??

Either way before you replace solenoids first thing to do IMHO is perform a complete fluid exchange to remove all the ATF that's in there and replace it
with a DEXRON II/III compatible fluid.

Valvoline MaxLife ATF is known to be compatible with the A343F transmission but whichever fluid you choose double check first with the manufacturer of that ATF if it's correct for your vehicle.

I’m waiting to confirm with the shop that did the work. He owns a 91 FJ and does a lot of work on Toyotas in general so kind of just let him take the lead on it. It was just a drain and fill with a new filter and pan gasket. Will I need to go somewhere and get a flush if WS fluid was put in?

 

[ppc]

Have you tried locking the CDL? Sounds like a possible stripped front drive flange.

 

[ZigZagZero]

Have you tried locking the CDL? Sounds like a possible stripped front drive flange.

Well… my CDL doesn’t work. The rod that gets pushed by the gear under the actuator is seized

 

[ppc]

Without a working cdl then you need to pull the bearing caps, jack up each wheel and try rotating the tire. It should rotate just a few degrees. Put into gear with the wheels chocked. Check to make sure you don't see the stub axle spinning. If not the flanges should good.

 

[ZigZagZero]

Without a working cdl then you need to pull the bearing caps, jack up each wheel and try rotating the tire. It should rotate just a few degrees. Put into gear with the wheels chocked. Check to make sure you don't see the stub axle spinning. If not the flanges should good.

Hmm I see. Looking at a thread on that now and I’ll add it to the list to check. Sounds like there’d be some grinding/more catastrophic symptoms with that though? I could see it as a possibility though, I’ve been wheeling in FWD a couple times with this CDL issue.

 

[Kernal]

Agree that worn splines on the drive flanges and/or the stub shaft of the CV joints could feel like the transmission is slipping but often that's accompanied by some grinding noises.

Was any of your wheeling (in ?AWD) extreme ie: going up a creek bed, stuck on rocks, rocking the vehicle/transmission back and forth, spinning tires that come down suddenly and stop, or just easy terrain?

Either way, still need to get the wrong ATF out (if it's a WS ATF) and the correct ATF into your transmission. You need a complete fluid exchange, not just a drain and fill (also maybe a new mechanic??).

 

[ZigZagZero]

Agree that worn splines on the drive flanges and/or the stub shaft of the CV joints could feel like the transmission is slipping but often that's accompanied by some grinding noises.

Was any of your wheeling (in ?AWD) extreme ie: going up a creek bed, stuck on rocks, rocking the vehicle/transmission back and forth, spinning tires that come down suddenly and stop, or just easy terrain?

Either way, still need to get the wrong ATF out (if it's a WS ATF) and the correct ATF into your transmission. You need a complete fluid exchange, not just a drain and fill (also maybe a new mechanic??).

I said FWD because without my working CDL, locking FR/RR results in just the front getting power (whole separate headache that hopefully a replacement t case will solve). It was moderate, a lot of limited traction with loose rock at steep angles requiring higher speeds. That was a week ago 50 miles from home. I’ll get some fluid this weekend to swap out and yeah if that solves it I think I’ll stick to doing things myself.

 

[AussieHJCruza]

If you're able and willing, you're generally best to work on these trucks yourself.
On the transmission, they hold ~13 litres of Dex III transmission fluid. Search Rodney Flush on the site and get the correct fluid in it. A drain and fill won't do what you need to do.

 

[Malleus]

Well… my CDL doesn’t work. The rod that gets pushed by the gear under the actuator is seized

The rod end (33740-26010) on the shift link is $20; the upper/lower bushings (36324-60060) (90386-08007) are even cheaper. Those are usually the only wear parts. You should probably take a crack at fixing that. Get a new hairpin (90468-14011) while you're at it, the old one probably isn't springy any more.

Make sure you get a new drain plug crush washer (35178-30010). I'd let the engine reach operating temperature, go through the gears a couple of times (with your foot on the brake) and then drain the system. If you let it drain overnight, you'll get about 4-6 quarts, but no more. Put the plug back in and then drain the remainder through the cooler return line near the radiator. There's absolutely no way to do any damage if you use the tranmission pump to change the fluid; it's just doing what it normally does. It's doable by yourself, but a helper is handy. They don't need to be mechanically savvy, just observant and able to reach the brake so they can go through the gears while you're flushing the system.

If the shifting problem improves after flushing the transmission, it's your first gear clutches. Unfortunately, they're at the rear of the transmission, and replacing them requires complete disassembly.

 

[Malleus]

FWIW, Summit has the best price on cases of ATF:

You'll need two cases:

 

[Malleus]

Hello all,

My 97 LX has developed a problem when taking off from a stop. If I’m not gentle on the throttle at takeoff it feels like the truck goes back into neutral (revs go up, feels like the gear disengages) and then bumps hard into second.

When I’m gentle it shifts smooth. I’ve replicated the problem even by shifting manually and it feels like 1st slips if I go up on the revs. Not abnormally high mind you, like normal throttle to get out into traffic.

I’ve read many threads and it seems to point to solenoids, but a lot of people seem to feel like they’re starting in 3rd? I have no code as far as OD flashing or anything and not sure that it would with OBD 2.

I’m prepared to replace all 4 solenoids but I’d like to hear if any experts think it’s something worse?

Thanks!

EDIT: this is incorrect for the A343F in the 3rd generation Land Cruiser with the intergrated ECM/TCM.

You have to use the DLC1 connector on the firewall in the engine compartment to get transmission diagnostic codes (DTCs). No third party tool (that I'm aware of) will read the TCU.

The procedure is in the service manual (RM510U). If you haven't already, download your free copy from the Resources forum, 80 series section. Get the EWD (RM282U) while you're in there.

 

[Malleus]

EDIT: this is incorrect for the A343F in the 3rd generation Land Cruiser with the intergrated ECM/TCM.

Unfortunately, the 3rd generation service manuals ('95-'97 and LX 450) all reference the Toyota tester (which you won't have) OR a third party OBDII reader. Maybe someone had one 30 years ago that'll read the TCU, but if it still exists, I'm not aware of it.

However, the DLC1 procedure still works. Here is the instruction set (from the 1994 service manual - NOTE: the codes are not the same; the 2nd generation Land Cruisers have a different transmission and TCU):

Note the step requiring the O/D light to be ON.

 

[Malleus]

Note also that the TCU will not store and display a lock-up solenoid failure, only failures of the shift solenoids or speed sensors. That is not your problem though.

 

[ZigZagZero]

The rod end (33740-26010) on the shift link is $20; the upper/lower bushings (36324-60060) (90386-08007) are even cheaper. Those are usually the only wear parts. You should probably take a crack at fixing that. Get a new hairpin (90468-14011) while you're at it, the old one probably isn't springy any more.

Make sure you get a new drain plug crush washer (35178-30010). I'd let the engine reach operating temperature, go through the gears a couple of times (with your foot on the brake) and then drain the system. If you let it drain overnight, you'll get about 4-6 quarts, but no more. Put the plug back in and then drain the remainder through the cooler return line near the radiator. There's absolutely no way to do any damage if you use the tranmission pump to change the fluid; it's just doing what it normally does. It's doable by yourself, but a helper is handy. They don't need to be mechanically savvy, just observant and able to reach the brake so they can go through the gears while you're flushing the system.

If the shifting problem improves after flushing the transmission, it's your first gear clutches. Unfortunately, they're at the rear of the transmission, and replacing them requires complete disassembly.

I’m talking about the gear-driven shaft within the transfer case that locks it up.

 

[ZigZagZero]

Note also that the TCU will not store and display a lock-up solenoid failure, only failures of the shift solenoids or speed sensors. That is not your problem though.

I’m missing a lot of the metal pins in that diag box for some reason

 

[Malleus]

Not all positions were used.